I know that DSA is #1, but who is #2?

I would say IAI-444

But DSA is not the top. A falsmith built fal is number 1. Then followed by a preban. Then DSA. Then IAI

Roma...
I'd have to disagree with you here.

DSA makes the finest FAL's ever produced. Their tooling, materials, and modern craftsmanship are second to none. I'm talking about their factory new SA-58's. No FAL, FN's or otherwise are even in the same catagory.

As to the second best, that's where a debate is possible. The DSA STG-58's are incredible. The FN's, Austrian STG-58's and Isreali FAL's are real nice too, but expensive. Then there's the occasional "FALsmith" that produces FAL's of a quality that's worth looking in to. Here's a link to one of them.
www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/fal/pagefal.htm

P.S.- As far as "FALsmiths", some of the worlds best are on DSA's payroll.
'

Quoted: I know that DSA is #1, but who is #2?

Everyone has their own opinion of #1, #5 or etc., but the original Belgium FAL's are my far and away number one.
Several different models of Belgium FAL's but my favorite is the FN 50.00 L.A.R. Match - "arguably" the finest battlefield rifle ever made.  ($1900 - $2200 with some shopping)
My #2 of the massed produced FAL's is the DS Arms.
My #3, and the best value I know of is also from DS Arms the Austrian STG58 built on a DS Arms Type 2 receiver.  A Steyer barrel on this model and when these are gone they're all gone.  ($800.00 - 900 with a little shopping)

Forgot the Argentine FAL.
Very, very fine FAL but for one that's legit there's at least twenty fakes.
I'd probably forget the Argentina offering but it should be mentioned.

Then there's the occasional "FALsmith" that produces FAL's of a quality that's worth looking into. Here's a link to one of them.
www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/fal/pagefal.htm

On a strictly personal basis I don't like this guy.
However, I've got to agree with "M4" on his work-excellent.

Quoted: My #2 of the massed produced FAL's is the DS Arms.

Hate to burst your bubble, but FN's were FAR more mass produced than anything DSA has ever made. That's exactly why DSA's SA-58's are superior not only in craftsmanship, but in materials used and the manufacturing techniques. FN's factory rifles were produced in rather primative conditions compared to what DSA uses, and FN cranked them out by the millions. Hardly detailing each and every one by hand.

I'd also like to add that the Austrian STG-58's are widely considered superior FAL's to the Belgium FAL's.

They were simply built to a higher standard.

People almost automatically leap to the conclusion, by name recognition alone, that the FN's are the FAL to measure all others by. That is absolutely NOT the case. Great rifles, yes. The best? Definately not.

Quoted: Quoted: My #2 of the massed produced FAL's is the DS Arms.

Hate to burst your bubble, but FN's were FAR more mass produced than anything DSA has ever made.

"M4" "My #2 of the mass produced FAL's......
I'm trying to say of the massed produced FAL's (FN being my number 1 of the massed produced rifles) DS Arms is number 2.
The original Belgium guns were certainly mass-produced as you point out.
Also please note that of the Belgium FAL's I picked a specific model as my number one choice.

As you imply the DS Arms FAL's are built closer to the original spec's then even the original guns.  The DS Arms folks actually bought the original Belgium drawings and modern "CNC" milling machines allow for a closer-to-spec gun from DS Arms.

Quoted: Quoted: My #2 of the massed produced FAL's is the DS Arms.

Hate to burst your bubble, but FN's were FAR more mass produced than anything DSA has ever made.

"M4" "My #2 of the mass produced FAL's......
I'm trying to say of the massed produced FAL's (FN being my number 1 of the massed produced rifles) DS Arms is number 2.
The original Belgium guns were certainly mass-produced as you point out.
Also please note that of the Belgium FAL's I picked a specific model as my number one choice.

As you imply the DS Arms FAL's are built closer to the original spec's then even the original guns.  The DS Arms folks actually bought the original Belgium drawings and modern "CNC" milling machines allow for a closer-to-spec gun from DS Arms.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My #2 of the massed produced FAL's is the DS Arms. Hate to burst your bubble, but FN's were FAR more mass produced than anything DSA has ever made. "M4" "My #2 of the mass produced FAL's...... I'm trying to say of the massed produced FAL's (FN being my number 1 of the massed produced rifles) DS Arms is number 2. The original Belgium guns were certainly mass-produced as you point out. Also please note that of the Belgium FAL's I picked a specific model as my number one choice. As you imply the DS Arms FAL's are built closer to the original spec's then even the original guns.  The DS Arms folks actually bought the original Belgium drawings and modern "CNC" milling machines allow for a closer-to-spec gun from DS Arms.

Some corrections are definately needed here, and no flame intended at all.

First of all, DSA's are not mass produced. The entire purpose DSA was designed for was to make FAL's that are superior in pretty much every respect to any FAL before them. They get hands on attention like no FAL ever made. FN has name recognition, and that is why they are so frequently mentioned as the benchmark FAL. They truly are not. They were made by the millions, where as DSA details each and every gun by hand. That combined with superior materials, machinery and craftsmanship simply make a superior rifle. It's not a matter of opinion.

DSA did not buy the original Belgium drawings.

DSA bought the Austrian STG-58 blueprints. They did this for the simple reason that the Austrian FAL's, at the time, were the best in the world. After aquiring the rights to produce STG-58 clones, they greatly modernized their production processes, improved the materials used through out the guns, and devoted handcraftsmanship to their rifles that no other FAL maker(Austrian, Belgium or anyone else) ever had.

As for DSA being "closer to spec", they have greatly surpassed spec's of any previous FAL.

All i'm looking for is the best made FAL in the $500 range? I should have asked who makes the best FAL in that price range.

M4
you are certainly correct on DS Arms purchase of the Austrian prints - guess I had a brain-fart or something.

I don't want to debate each detail of the FAL - I couldn't anyway - but let me address a couple:

1)  As for mass-production I'm trying to say the DS Arms production more closely approximates the FN FAL's as opposed to a "Gunsmith" built FAL - or any other gun - not one of a kinds.

2)  So far as this "spec" business is concerned I'm perfectly comfortable with my facts as stated but maybe I could say it better.
No FAL or anything else I know of is  "totally" at spec.  Within tolerances is about as good as it gets.
The DS Arms FAL's are closer to the original spec than any FAL I know of but even they are not precisely at spec.  CNC machines allow DSA's receivers to be closer to spec than any previously built FAL receiver.

Finally I'm a fan of DS Arms and have owned a couple of their guns.  Right after Christmas I'm gonna treat myself to one of those STG58 carbines.

(M4 Dude, past this you're gonna be dueling with only yourself - no "busting-of-bubbles" intended.)

Right.....the Lithgow made L1A1s don´t seem to exist....

Having owned a DSA SA-58 Carbine (yes, the expensive new one), FN FAL 50.63 and a SAR-48 (IMBEL factory made) I can tell you that the FN was by far the best rifle, followed by the SAR-48. DSA rifles are great, but not better than a FN manufactured rifle.  

Also, the FN receiver is forged into it's initial shape, the DSA receivers are milled from a forged steel blank.  

The DSA may look prettier, but the FN and IMBEL rifles will function much better.  

Kevin Paul
groups.yahoo.com/group/gafalers/

Quoted: All i'm looking for is the best made FAL in the $500 range? I should have asked who makes the best FAL in that price range.

At that range, you are looking EXCLUSIVELY at parts guns. So, the "which manufacturer" question is kinda irrelevant.

Look for one with an Imbel receiver. ONLY DSA beats Imbels' quality when it comes to receivers. At twice the price, DSA' receviers BETTER be at least a little better than Imbels.

Then I think I would look closely at the L1A1's, or the IAI M444's (I beleive that is teh right designation)

Too bad the FAL files discussion board is down.

Here's my advice (you are NOT gonna like it)

AT $500, you will be surrounded by FrankenFAL's.

SAVE YOUR MONEY. Until you can get the $800 DSA Stg 58A. All I can say is you will be glad you did.