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Posted: 12/15/2001 2:27:41 PM EDT
Ok I tried the search feature and turned up nothing. So Who owns one of these and how does it operate? Is the bolt carrier shortened? How well does it work do you think they are worth the high price? General impressions?
IPSC_GUY sends |
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Pick me! Pick me! lol.
The bolt carrier has a hollow rod attached, but the bolt itself is interchangable with an AR15 bolt. The return spring is mounted on top and the gas tube/rod of the bolt carrier goes through it, thus negating the need for the buffer and buffer extension. Gas is directed through the gas tube/rod and blows the bolt to the rear, the spring then forces the bolt carrier back in battery, stripping another round. The folding stock is cool, but suprisingly doesn't reduce the length (folded) much compared to an M4 with its stock collapsed. I'll post a couple of pics to illustrate the ZM's inside. |
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INTERESTING to be sure. So the recoil spring is actually stretched during the cycle instead of compressed. How is reliability? Also what do you think of the folding stock? I have never been a fan of them unless you are getting in and out of vehicles a lot. The telescoping stock on an M-4 I find much more useful. So all in all which do you like better?
IPSC_GUY sends |
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It appears the rod-spring operate in fashion similar to the M1 carbine or M14 (gas piston push a rod back to unlock bolt and cycle), correct?? How about a better pic of the bolt/carrier assembly compared to the plain AR family?
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Why in the heck does he charge so much? I could probably make one of these in a shop.
You could also do a similer thing by putting a spring behind the key and blocking off the charging handle slot. |
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Olympic also makes a folder kit. Havn't seen one, or heard much about them but they are out there.
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Well I suppose R&D isn't cheap, maybe because they don't sell enough of them to bring the price down yet.
People have said for the price, they could just go buy an FNC. While true, spare parts will be much easier to find for the ZM, and for anyone familiar with an AR15, this operates the same way except for stripping and reassembly. |
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I've had good luck with Oly stuff, all top notch. I think that OA-93 carbine looks sweet! Not as nice as a ZM but am willing to bet a whole lot cheaper.
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Is the ZM system substantially more reliable (ie. worths the bucks) and how does accuracy compare to the typical AR?
Thanks! |
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I contacted Allen Zitta, owner of ZM, and he claims that his rifles fire 1 MOA groups w/ G.I. green tips from 11.5" bbls. He told me that he already has designs for a RAS-type 4-quadrant rail system and plans on manufacturing these when he gets 200+ orders for them. He also told me he has folding front & rear sights as well. I am interested in the design, but told him that I'd wait until he begins manufacture of the 4-quad. rail system.
If it seems feasible, and if enough members get in on it, maybe we can do some kind of group purchase I've got a preban Colt receiver that I could slap a pre-ban ZM LR-300 upper on, along w/ one of the 5-pos. telefolding stocks. The ZM website is: www.zmweapons.com In a "Guns" magazine review of the LR-300 (www.gunsmagazine.com/Pages/0301ftr.html), they claimed to have run 3K rds through it w/o experiencing any failures; accuracy was good enough to cap X-ring groups at 100 yds. About the only peformance concern I might have with the ZM design is that the handguards, being apparently composed of metal, will transmit a lot of bbl. heat to the shooter's hands. Duffy, what's your take on this Anyone interested in starting a group purchase campaign |
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Master B, did Mr. Zitta mention whether his new RAS type forend would retro-fit to existing uppers? Either way, count me in!
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blaster, the handguard (I had to do a visual on it since I forgot, it's a one piece unit) not metal, it's some kind of plastic..
I've rapid fired my ZM many times, never felt heat transmitted through the handguard. I fired about 200 rounds in less than 2 minutes, on my 20" barrel Colt the gas tube glowed red (it was at night and plainly visible) and its handguards are warm, did about the same number of rounds in the same amount of time with the ZM, it did not show such tendencies. |
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Thanks, Duffy. That pretty much removes my one possible concern. This design seems pretty faultless. This also reinforces my decision to get an ARMS SIR for my M4.
Now, there's the matter of a possible group purchase. Hmmmmmmmmmmm [:\] ZM's are definitely not your avg. basement deals, at roughly $1565.00+ dollars for a LR-300 16" pre-ban upper. With the economy in its current state, and being in the post-Christmas time of the year, the timing is probably not right for a group purchase campaign right now. I'd like to do this, but would definitely like to catch ZM after they start producing the quad-rail fore-arm and the folding front & rear sights. For me, these items are the ticket. A-N, keep me in your email address book. When the time seems more appropriate, we should consider posting a ZM group-purchase topic & trying to coral some cantankerous AR15.com members into getting in & talking to ZM about the possibility of a group order deal. If enough members are serious, then maybe Allen Zitta would consider it. I'd have to contact him to see if he's amorable to the idea, but this sort of thing has been done (e.g. Ar15.com knife). If you're still interested, please contact me. |
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Blaster, you got it. Everything I've seen and read confirms Z-M Weapons is a first class operation. I've exchanged email with Mr. Zitta and he has been helpful and patient with his replies. You're right about the time of year--alot of guys seem to be dropping prices on prebans. Most everyone has emptied the bank at Christmas. Give it a month or two and we may be in business.
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Duffy, thanks for the info and great pics. I've been on the look-out for a used kit, but so far I've only seen a postban one for sale. My gunsmith tells me he can get a preban upper through Brownells at cost. I may go that route if we can't get a group purchase going when the RAS type forend shows up. By the way, is that M4 class 3?
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I thought your M4 upper had a 14.5" barrel with a phantom suppressor, silver soldered maybe? I didn't notice the short pipe on the Z-M upper. You're right though, the new Z-M stuff is 16" out of the box. By the way, Yankee Hill Machine www.yankeehillmachine.com/products.html claims to manufacture the LR300 for Z-M Weapons. Mr. Zitta told me Z-M manufactures their own parts (maybe they do using Yankee Hill!). Seems YHM also makes the phantom flash suppressor among other things. Ever heard of Yankee Hill Machine?
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Duffy you're quick, or maybe I just type slow. Thanks for the details!
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Austin,
Duffy's the one with the cool toys! I just have a couple. The old Duffster got Elcans, ACOGs, Accuracy International chassis, H&Ks...a new condo...and probably a lot more stuff Yeah, my ZM is pimped out in the photo. I don't think I have ever used the bipod except for zeroing the Aimpoint. My forend is actually green though. Hey Duff, youve got to get the cheekpad from DSA and put it on your skeleton stock, it works great on mine...it will keep you from getting that contact frostbite down there in CA! (just kidding around with you bro ) I'm real curious about this new RAS for the ZM. I hope its a quality piece of equipment and not a cheap modification to the existing RAS for the M4. I have seriously considered buying the full rail that ZM already has available which mounts on top, but its kinda pricy if I remember correctly. I have this buddy I work with who is dying to get his own ZM so I know he will definately be interested in going in on a group purchase. He frequents this board a lot from work so I know he will be reading this. RLTW! |
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Duff...you got yoursef an Ammo Can?
...Just kidding, Nice PVS-4 you got there buddy! How much did that run you? Your absolutely right about the ZM RAS... I was mainly interested in how it would look . As far as function...I never let my men mount their PVS-14's directly on their weapons systems. Reason being...you cant conduct battle drills effectively with NVD's mounted on your weapon...not to mention haveing zero security at night during movement (unless you scanned your sector in the high carry all night...which is not practical). The existing tri-mount for the ZM would accomodate a PAQ-4C and TAC Light, which is pretty much all you would need...so your opinion is right on the money. As far as my next toy...you've given me the bug to get one of those Accuracy International chasis systems. I'd like to build one up chambered for the 300WSM. Another toy thats been on my list for a while is the DSA SA58. I figure the DSA will be the cheaper of the two since I would have to buy a Complete Remington Short Action rifle, then get it re-barrelled and outfit it with a quality scope before the AWMPgery would be complete ...I never thought of the mousepad analogy ...it does kinda look like it huh?. Believe it or not I actually purchased it to prevent contact frostbite when I was shooting at 40 below zero. RLTW! |
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Thanks for the pic Duff...I feel great now....now that I dont have one!
We never use the PVS-4's anymore now that we have enough PVS-14's/7's in conjuction with the PAQ-4's for pretty much everyone. Do you have the M16 reticle? |
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Bear, the reticle says M16-M203-M79, it has a range finer that confuses the heck out of me
I really wanted a gen3 NV scope that I can mount ahead of the ACOG TA01NSN, but I wasn't about to dump $3500 on it, oh well maybe later if I get rich.. |
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