brought my woman to shoot the sur.  my best group was about 1 1/2' at 25 yards..i know thats not awesome but it was with iron sights and no rest, just my elbows.  the problem i have is that the targets are a red diamond on a white background..i'd shoot at the longer ranges but i can't see the diamonds.  i don't wear glasses (i'm 23) but maybee i do have a little sight degeneration..would black targets work better for me or am i doomed to shoot all over the place?  i am happy with the group though..better than the ak ever was!

I hate those targets. Redfield aren't they. I use the "25 yard pistol target" at 100 yards. Much easier to see.

1.5" is fine.

I know, I know, everyone shoots sub-1" groups with surplus ammo at 100 yards with these rifles (sure they do ) but the rifle itself isn't expected to do any better than put all it's bullets in a 4cm circle at 25 meters.  That's rifle + arsenal/factory ammo + shooter.  You're doing this.

All hits inside a 4cm circle at 25 meters will hit mansized targets at 300 meters.

The practrical limit of many M16/AR15 rifles and factory ammo, even with trained firers is 3cm at 25 meters.  With match ammo, off the bench with a scope you'll shoot better, but for now try to get some of the silhouette targets from communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite and see if you can tighten the groups up a bit.  I believe they have rescaled them for 25 yards and 15 yards.

They have scaled targets so you can shoot those 300 meter targets.

Don't be afaid to try a different ammo type.  The Lake City M193 Ball looks very nice and produces very tight groups off the bench.

-- Chuck

Hi I715,

A study was done on target colors and the results pointed to a light shade of blue whether optics or irons were used.  Orange/Reds were considered some of the worst.  

Dave S

BYW, get your eyes checked and consider it as preventive maintenance.  As for the shade of blue that won the best color to use for targets......well, it is almost....oh, really......O'Reiley......no kidding.....da-da-damn near exactly......United Nations blue.  There was a nice write-up in Guns&Ammo with a few freebie targets (I still have my (2) two, somewhere)included with that month's issue.  I believe that you can still order the targets in various shapes and sizes through the magazine.

Although black targets are easier to see, it is hard to see hits on black, even with a spotting scope.  You might try some of the Shoot-N-C targets, I have heard good things about them.

Black targets are hard to see, especially with 5.56 holes, at 100 yrds, but it's not impossible.  Unless you are shooting and checking every round you can see the groups made after emptying a magazine.

I read an article that said, "You will never get better than a 1" spread at 50 yard's with an AR, "you don't need to", so don't frustrate yourself trying. The weapon has such a flat trajectory the spread you get at 50 yard's is pretty much the same spread you'll get at all "inbetween" distance's." "50 yard's to 250 yard's"