If you are using an iphone you can hit edit when you pause the video and make the slo mo run the whole video.  There is slider at the bottom of the edit screeen and you can move whent he slo mo begins and ends.

Is yours working reliably with the brown bear subsonic, like I posted earlier today mine wont pick up the next round or lock the bolt bolt on either gas setting with that ammo.

Android, and I'm not aware of all the functions lol. These were taken weeks ago, gun has been with CZ for 3 weeks now. Still no word from them.

Yes for now it is running the Bear Sub sonics the best.  Its seen 120 rounds of it and it will lock the bolt back on the last round. Plus as you can see from my pics it does not completely mangle the spent cases.  This was on the standard gas setting using DA Wolfman with keymicro brake and keymicro adapter.

Makes sense, I didnt catch you were running the suppressor.

I have had zero issues with my 805 or my Bren 2s in 5.56. I do trust them and I also believe they are superior to the SCAR. I'm not saying they're more reliable, that's difficult to truly judge given I've never had my SCAR malfunction and I've never had my Bren 2s malfunction either. I base my assessment on the features. I would choose the Bren 2s over the SCAR any day.

We're over 7k rounds with no lube, no wipe down, not even cracking the upper and lowers apart. We've done 1k sessions and 2k sessions. It's been hot outside and bitterly cold. Still, no malfunctions. If we weren't in the middle of ammogeddon of 2020 I would toss another 1k at it. Given we may not be able to get more ammo from Federal for 6+ months I have to be very frugal until this passes. I certainly can't afford to buy the ammo in the quantity necessary to keep the videos flowing at todays prices either.

The whole goal of that demonstration was to prove the AR15/M16 isn't the fragile gun that poops where it eats and needs constant maintenance and wonder lubes to stay running that its detractors claimed. I've been shooting the AR15/M16 since 1986 and I have shot A LOT of ammo through various guns over the years and one thing I learned long ago is that the AR15 is one of the most reliable guns ever invented. When I've seen AR's go down at the range, or at a class, or at some event, it has always been a gun that was modified from mil-spec or was "built" using a gaggle of parts from multiple manufacturers. I can't remember the last time an AR made by a quality manufacturer that had all of its OEM internals went down in my presence that wasn't ammo related.

This is why when people ask me what components I use when I build an AR15 I say, "BCM", "Daniels Defense", "LMT", or something along those lines. They'll follow up with, "what bolt, what carrier, what trigger, what barrel, etc." and I just repeat "BCM" or whatever brand pops in my mind I trust.

Thanks for watching!

Argh! We almost got a good glimpse of the failure before the video sped up and stopped abruptly. The lighting was good and the slow motion was good. So close! Here's what I could pull from it.



What it looks like to me is one of two possibilities. 1) a short stroke. 2) the rim popped off the extractor before the bolt carrier moved far enough rearward for the ejector to fling it out.

We're close guys. If someone could get slow motion footage of a failure with this level of video quality I think we can figure out what's happening for sure.

Tim

If someone wants to send me their gun that's malfunctioning, I'll cover all shipping costs. I'll put it in a public video and give you credit (if you want a plug) in the video. We'll put it on the slow motion camera and we'll definitely take a good stab at figuring this problem out and share it with the community. I would only need the gun for 5 days before I shipped it back. I send some patches back with the gun.

I will gladly send you my gun friend.

Tim,

Same deal man.

Let me know.

Cz sent me a shipping label yesterday, otherwise I would offer to send mine. This will be its 3rd trip back to CZ.

Tim, have you got a bore scope / camera? I don’t know if you can actually measure the gas port within the barrel, but photos of gas ports showing their relative sizes of malfunctioning guns vs functioning guns could be useful. The gas port on my functioning 11” x39 barrel is pretty much centered on a land and takes up @ 3/4 of the width of the land.

Measurements of the ports on the gas plug should be relatively easy.

Just throwing something at the wall here... but could it be an issue caused by the lack of a automatic FCG or something within that FCG?  Just wondering because I know there are reports of the CZ Scorpion going kaboom and being able to fire out of battery.  I don't remember the exact explanation, but there was some safety feature within the automatic FCG on the submachine gun Scorpions that prevents it from firing out of battery, and since the civilian version doesn't have that FCG it is possible to get an OOB detonation.  Again, I may be way off base here but I just find it odd that the BREN 2 assault rifle hasn't been reported to have issues in 7.62x39, but the civilian version is.  Like Tim said I feel like we'd hear about it if there was an issue with the military guns since a lot of countries have moved to the 7.62x39 BREN 2 as their standard issue assault rifle.

Am I crazy to still want to get a Bren 2 in 7.62x39 even after reading this thread

Not really.  I feel like this problem is very out of the ordinary for CZ.  Also it seems to be affecting only a handful of weapons for now so hopefully other people will have better luck. Plus I am confident the community will work to find the problem and solution.

Measuring the port of the barrel itself wouldn't be too helpful since the gas regulator is whats restricting the gas. The barrel port is larger than what's on the gas regulator (at least on the standard setting) because it has to be large enough to make the "adverse" actually receive more gas.
The only change in aware of with the FCG is the little tab in the lower that prevents the hammer from smashing jnto the bolt catch assembly. That was added on later batches of civilan models. Otherwise the FCG should be the same on all civilan models, and these problems seem to only be affecting recent purchases as this is all just surfacing. The FCG also should not affect the ejection/extraction process unless the hammer speing was over sprung, or the friction too much to over come during recoil, where you might see evidence of short stroking. In my case, it doesn't appear to short stroke, as I've had the gun malfunon the last shot. The round stays in the reciever because it wasnt ejected, but the bolt is still held open on the last shot, suggesting it's not under-gased or short stroking from FCG friction.

I do have a good bore scope and camera. I can scope the bore and chamber. I can also check headspace. Then I would like to get the gun to fail on slow motion so we can see exactly what's failing and when. Hopefully that will give us an idea of where the problem lies.

I was arguing with my self between getting a bren 2 vs Galil Ace. Spent a couple of weeks researching and decided to get a 14" Bren 7.62 yesterda .. gulp
And then I saw this thread. Apparently my Google-fu skills aren't as sharp as I thought.
I'll be getting and shooting my Bren 2 tomorrow and will see if I'll regret my Google-fu skills and choice lol
Good luck to us and wish Tim the best in his investigation.

This thread and others are why I went with the 5.56 Bren. Picking up my 14” tonight, will then have a brake pin and weld on to get me over 16”, can’t wait to get out and shoot I after that. Hoping it will eat steel .223 just fine.

Im seriously considering The MCX Virtus as my go to setup. I wish it would have done better in your torture testing in water/sand/mud though and wasnt so heavy. Is the Sig Virtus your go to or is the BCM Recce? My Bren 2 S 5.56 is also up for that top spot. Just not enough testing done on these to trust long term yet.

These reported problems with the 7.62x39 are off-putting.  I hope the .308, if it ever comes to market, fares better.

Man I was bummed out today I was outbid on a Bren 2 762 with 5 min to go.  But now I read this wow god does love me.  Funny how things sometimes work out for you!

So I guess I'm the only one having stovepipes on a 5.56 gun with the ACR adapter?

I’m usually a pretty solid CZ fanboi but yeah, they seem to have dropped the ball pretty badly on the Bren 2.  It’s like they took the really good if quirky Bren 805 design and over engineered it into something that doesn’t work as well.

The problems seem to be primarily coming from the 7.62x39 guns at least. I wonder if the GIGN guns or the Egyptian ones are experiencing the same issues.

I‘d like to add a Bren 2 carbine to my CZ collection but they really need to get to the bottom of this first.

I haven't heard of anyone having issues with their 5.56 guns. I read your original post and it appears you've done what you can.

Is it working now with the factory stock?

Can you try another ACR adapter?

5.56 guns are good to go, don’t let this thread scare you away they are great guns. I worry that this thread will give the Bren 2 platform a bad rep when in fact the majority of users have had positive experiences and in general the 5.56 guns have been top notch and without issues. I feel even the 7.62x39 guns complaints were little up until a few months ago. I’m leaning towards what Tim mentioned about it possibly being a bad batch of guns.

But I get it, we are all part of diagnosing and hopefully helping to improve a new weapon platforms development and for us gun nerds that’s exciting as heck so it makes headlines. Just worry it could give someone not in the loop looking to possibly pick up a Bren2 the wrong idea. I guess it is what it is?

But in general to anyone looking up info on possibly getting a Bren 2 they are good guns. As of this post 5.56 is the better bet for a reliable gun and not all 7.62x39 guns are problematic but be aware there is an active issue with some.

My Cz Bren 2 5.56 and 762x39 have been flawless with thousands of rounds through them without a malfunction. Id say the majority probably 99% of these guns both 5.56 and x39 run flawless. I think the best way to evaluate the issues causing the problem would be to shoot your gun thats having the issues with a bcg from another working gun. If your gun works well at that point you will know it is an ejector/extractor or bolt issue. if not then you have a barrel/gas system issue. If anyone in utah is having an issue with theres Im happy to help by allowing you to try my bcg's to diagnose your issue. I think we can all help each other locally to figure this issue out. Let me know utahns if you are having issues and I can help out

You sir are an angel 0=). That’s a good idea though, could give us some real quick results. Someone give this man a broken gun!!!

I’ve been following this discussion since about a month after I purchased my 7.62x39 Bren 2. I’ve had two stove pipes over the course of the first 400 rounds or so.

I’m out in the sticks of northern MI until the end of next week but I have ample slow motion video shot in good lighting that demonstrates the cases are hitting the brass deflector and sometimes bouncing into the front of the ejection port. I haven’t captured a stove pipe on camera yet but I believe that’s how they’re occurring. Additionally, and I have no idea if this is normal, but the video appears to show powder combustion blowing out of the area where the gas regulator is. The blast is more visible than the muzzle blast on the video, which I thought was strange.

I’ll post the video next week once I have reliable internet. Hopefully we can figure this out, I really like the gun but I’m anxious that it will never be a dependable firearm.

For the record, I’ve shot Wolf Poly, Barnaul, and Golden Tiger.

I feel exactly the same way and am in the same boat.
Mine should be arriving at my FFL in a few days and now I wish I had given an Arsenal AK more consideration. Now I'm potentially stuck with an 11inch model that may not work well with my suppressor

My 11" Ms runs fine with many types of ammo at around 900 rounds.  Only issue I have had is with a subsonic with no suppressor, had one FTE on the regular gas setting, that stuff is weak.

i have also tried a few different braces and endplates, also been using AR 15 x39 mags with the sleeve with no issues.

Lack of parts and handguard heat makes this nothing but a range toy for me, its a nicely made firearm but in a SHTF situation where you needed a 7.62x39 gun I would be grabbing for a decent AK.

Hi guys, quick question, for a bren 2 14" with lpvo, do you guys suggest scope rings or cantilever mounts ?

TIA

I have the carbine version. I don’t use a cantilever mount on mine. The Bren has a longer flat top rail than the AR15 receiver so there’s enough room for a standard mount. I use the ADM qd mount with no cant, but I flip it so the levers are on the right side of the gun, so they don’t interfere with left side charging handle placement. I have the HB extended charging handle as well, so there’s less chance of banging my knuckles with this set up. Scope is Steiner 1-4.

I love the Virtus. I'm running the piss out of mine, I even too it prairie dog hunting in Wyoming not long ago where it got dry and dirty from the wind blowing dust everywhere. It hasn't skipped a beat. That was with 50gr ammo and I've used up to 77gr ammo. Nothing can stop the Virtus it seems. I'm very impressed with it and if things go well this winter with me doing some cold weather testing I may very well drop the BCM I've used for years and go with the Virtus. The only thing I dislike about it is the weight. It's a heavy pig. But, I don't walk 20 miles with it either, so with a sling it's not a major issue for me.

If you were still in the military would you want the Virtus 11.5" or the Mk18 or M4A1 for your weapon of choice? I hear the Virtus won the SOCOM SURG contract where the 11.5" Virtus Suppressed upper will go on top of the Colt M4A1 Lowers and that its expected to phase out the Mk18 in the not so distant future. Maybe that version has a shorter/lighter handguard. Is there a 14.5" Barrel and could you use the 10" handguard with it to reduce the weight? I have someone working on an extended handguard attachment for the S model of the Bren 2. I think that would make the Bren 2 S a great gun able to attach Ir laser and white lights easier. I think with a couple of years of great reliability and durability will make the Bren 2 an amazing weapon. Right now I still have my KAC as my go to weapons.

Well, for me choosing anything over my BCM Reece 16 would require a pretty special rifle. I've been using AR15's and M16's for most of my life. I got my first AR15 when I was in high school and I've been collecting and shooting them from 1986 until present. I have more time with, and more rounds through, the AR15 than any other rifle on the planet. So, for me to say "I would give up my AR for X" is tough to do.

I am seriously considering the Virtus. I hate to be that old crotchety guy we all mocked in our youth that refused to give up their M1 Garand and 1911. Technology advances and better designs to come along, albeit slowly. We've been using smokeless powder and brass cases along with self loading firearms now for over 120 years. There's only so many ways to skin a cat... which is likely why our military has hung with the M16 for 60 years and why the Russians have stuck with the AK/AKM for over 70 years. By the end of WWII every way you can make a brass cased cartridge work in a self loading weapon had been designed. Everything we have now is some combination and/or modification of something designed decades ago.


With that being said, I am highly intrigued by the Virtus. I have an 11" and 16" in 5.56 and my Rattler (which I love above all other home defense guns) in 300BLK. I've been tracking with the MCX/Virtus now for 4 years. They have not failed me. I continue to be impressed with the accuracy, extremely mild recoil impulse, ergonomics, ease of maintenance and ability to configure it to fit my needs. The only real gripe I have is the weight. How in the world did Sig not keep the weight down on the gun to at least within a few ounces of the AR15? My 11" pistol weighs over 7.5lbs before I put anything on it. With a titanium OSS silencer, single cell Surefire Mini-Scout light, Trijicon MRO on a MI low mount and Troy mini-backup sights the gun is a heavy tank. It's not unbearable given I don't lug it around for miles on foot, but it's definitely a chub-bub.


Despite the weight I continue to be impressed with the shootability of the gun. Dare I say it's more shootable in my hands than my trusty BCM? Man... it certainly seems that way. I keep giving myself time to come down off the high, but I'm not. I continue to prefer it over my BCM when I go shooting. Even my buddies agree, they love the thing. One of my friends is a Deputy and they were considering AR's or the Virtus. They went with the AR's because they knew them and trusted them as they're all military guys. After shooting with me all summer, they wish they had gone with the Virtus for their patrol rifles now.


I do love the Bren 2 in 5.56 as well. I prefer my pistol over my carbine. There's something about the carbine that's off-putting for me. It's unremarkable to me. I hate the Americanized version of the carbine they imported, I wish they would have left it in its military configuration with the lighter profile barrel and military frontend. I have kitted out a 11" Bren 2 pistol much like I have my Virtus pistol but I prefer the Virtus. The Bren 2 is an outstanding firearm, no doubt. I'm glad we have so many amazing choices these days, but I can't put my finger on exactly why I keep gravitating to the Virtus over the Bren 2.


We will see. I'm giving myself a year to evaluate the Virtus before saying I'm either going with it or sticking with my BCM or the AR15 in general. Right now though, if I had to predict my decision that will come in the spring, I would say I'm probably going to adopt the Virtus as crazy as that sounds.


Here's a pic of my son shooting the Virtus I'm talking about. He too loves the weapon too. However, I'm teaching him marksmanship with an AR15. Down the road he can decide for himself what he prefers.
Attached File

I have an 11" but man... this makes me wish I got the 14".

Hey I have a question for you all that have multiple Bren2’s. Is the barrel from the S and MS models interchangeable? More specifically can a 5.56 ms barrel be fit to a 7.62x39 S receiver.

I have a 5.56 ms but I’ve really wanted a S to build a clone and I’ve also been considering picking up a 7.62x39 to add to the collection. Was wondering if I snatch up a 7.62 S model would it be possible to swap my 5.56 barrel and lower to it? Kill two bird with one stone type thing.

Thanks.

They are compatible. The rails will need to be taken off and kept with the S or Ms that they came with.

@29212 - Awesome! Has anyone confirmed this by doing it? Ive been following this thread for a while but can’t remember if this topic came up.

I have many times

Nice, thanks for the confirm!

29212 is correct

Put another 200 rounds through the gun today.

Went from 5100-5300 rounds.  The gun would not make it through a magazine without a failure to eject.  I'm going to be going through the process once again to return it to CZ.  I lost count after five failures to eject.

For those that haven't followed my Saga:

9 inch 7.62X39.  2019 date stamped.
HBI handguard
Factory stock adapter
Various ammo, all steel cased.
Black windowed magazines.

Video will be forthcoming as I was able to capture some of the malfunctions.

The military arms channel 7.62x39 ms test that was originally just for Patreon is now up on youtube

I got my 14" 7.69 today. Guess what ? First shot .... Light primer strike lol. Other than PPU subsonic not cycling unsuppressed, everything was flawless. Is it normal not to cycle subsonic unsurpressed? Gas setting was on position 2.

Thanks

If I remember correctly the PPU subsonic is known for not cycling semi auto actions, while the Brown Bear subsonic does cycle the action. I have not run any brown bear through my bren, but it does cycle my Sig 556r both suppressed and unsuppressed.

We did get one light primer strike in our testing, I wrote it off to me having a fact trigger finger. I can cause AK's to have hammer follow when I get into my groove. Perhaps it was a failure of the gun and not my trigger finger. However, it was the one and only one the gun has ever had.

We have a user here sending us their gun that's stovepiping. Hopefully we'll have it in a week or so and we'll be able to get the malfunctions on slow motion. If so, that may give us a better idea of what's going on.

This is my first AK variant and first AK round fired ever. It's just hilarious it's a malfunction lol.

Thanks for what you and the rest of the gang are doing here. I don't quite buy the ammo excuse by CZ, pretty lame reply. I'm sure you guys will be able to isolate the issue and force CZ to do the right thing.

I'll try to contribute info if and when I have an issue myself, hopefully not lol.

Havent tried PPU but the silver bear 7.62 subsonic will not cycle my gun all the way, on the adverse gas setting it will eject but will not pick up the next round or lock the bolt back.  On the normal gas setting I had one that wouldnt even eject without the suppressor.

I would guess the first round wasnt chambered all the way, these have no safety sear and the hammer can drop if the bolt isnt locked but it wont ignite the primer.  

FWIW I put another 100 rounds (around 1000 total now) of wolf and tula through my 11" Ms yesterday and no issues at all.  I do clean the rifle every time out, the tula and wolf 'range safe' stuff really cruds up the gas system with what appears to be vaporized copper so I like to get that stuff out of there.  Never had the extractor apart to clean under it.  

I'm done trying to make this one fail lol, 1000 rounds is enough.  Would like to get a new hammer since mine is pretty banged up but it still works so its not a huge deal. The hammer on the SBR in MACs video after 2K rounds looks way better than mine.    Wouldnt mind being able to buy a 14" gas regulator with the smaller hole too to play with.