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Posted: 1/15/2008 11:48:39 PM EDT
[#1]
fizzled? same as 9mm/40/45 solution to non problem?
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Posted: 1/16/2008 9:16:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Still used by a lot of LEOs all over the country.
But I think it died off as the latest super round. |
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Posted: 1/16/2008 9:45:18 AM EDT
[#3]
They buried it next to the .45 G.A.P.
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Posted: 1/16/2008 9:50:08 AM EDT
[#4]
It was a great idea and it offered awesome ballistics and performance but the lack of promotion and the high cost of ammunition coupled with it being harder to reload for since it is a necked case sent it practically the way of the dodo bird.
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Posted: 1/16/2008 10:22:56 AM EDT
[#5]
G.A.P. = terrible idea for a new cartridge. Although I did hear that it performs very close to a regular .45 ACP. Still, why fix something that isn't broken. Sorry for the hijack. |
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Posted: 1/16/2008 10:24:55 AM EDT
[#6]
How so? Offered with XDs, M&Ps, etc... not the first in the pipeline of course but still going. I like the 357 Sig. |
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Posted: 1/16/2008 10:40:50 AM EDT
[#7]
A Glock 31 with 6 full high cap. mags, Mag-Lite and utility knife make up the major portion of my truck kit. I like the cartridge and attendant firepower provided by the 31. The .357 Sig is a good cartridge especially if you like the idea of a high cap mag giving you the ability for 13 powerful, aimed shots.
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Posted: 1/16/2008 11:01:45 AM EDT
[#8]
The 357 Sig was more useful than that joke of a 45 round....GAP...the space between the ears of the person(s) who came up with that round. S.O. |
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Posted: 1/16/2008 12:27:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Considering some of the +p+ 9mm loads available now (Like the Winchster 127 grn JHP +p+) there is little need for the .357 Sig.
Modern 9mm handguns can handle very very hot loaded 9mm ammunition and the case can easily take it. |
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Posted: 1/16/2008 6:38:07 PM EDT
[#10]
It's still very much alive and popular with Highway Patrol types because of it's vehicle penetration.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 8:31:55 AM EDT
[#11]
I still like it and use it. I think a lot of people were turned off do to the recoil. It is a lot different than shooting a 9mm or the 45.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 9:21:37 AM EDT
[#12]
The only alternative full power cartiage is a 10mm Auto, nuff said.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 10:04:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Not really… The .357 Sig offers nothing over the .38 Super! Now the 38 Super has been around for 87 years and has never proven to be a "powerful performer" The 357 Sig is no different. It is just another case of awesome numbers that just never live up to expectations… |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 11:31:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Best performance comes from full power 10mm or 9x25mm. The 9x25 is just freak'n nuts. Thinking of having a barrel made for my 1066. S.O. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 11:33:01 AM EDT
[#15]
fun out of G-35
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Posted: 1/17/2008 12:23:48 PM EDT
[#16]
parrot32...
Not really… The .357 Sig offers nothing over the .38 Super! Horse shit !!! ever try a 115gr Gold Dot at 1700fps out of a Glock 31?? it's everything the 38 stupid never dreamed of being. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 12:25:43 PM EDT
[#17]
the South Carolina state troopers ( highway patrol ) just switch to the 45 GAP a couple of weeks ago from the 40 S&W.
just FYI sorry to hijack the hijack 
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Posted: 1/17/2008 12:48:03 PM EDT
[#18]
ME state game wardens carry Sig's in .357 Sig. |
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Posted: 1/17/2008 12:49:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Norma spec 10mm Auto is nasty. 38 anything dont touch it.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 1:15:17 PM EDT
[#20]
I carry a Sig 226 on duty in 357 and love the gun and caliber. Our Game Commission (Pa) switched to Glock 31’s a while ago. The Pa State Troopers just went to Glock pistols in 45 GAP. It looks like both calibers are going strong here in Pa law enforcement.
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Posted: 1/17/2008 5:16:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Hehe, handled a Springer XD tactical in .45 gap a few years ago when the sales rep came to town.
He spoke highly of my handling a hard to find item. I grinned and bit my tongue at the laughter ensuing at all that .45 gap represents. .357 sig. was/is a cool round with plenty of velocity and lots of performance. It's just not financially as tenable as the 9mm/.40 for departments. |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 3:51:17 AM EDT
[#22]
You have been breathing too many fumes… Hornady lists a 357 Sig: 115gr bullet at 1350fps MAX! 38 Super: 115gr at 1300fps MAX! Even a 357 Mag: 110gr is listed at 1550fps! The pressure needed to reach 1700frp would blow you and your Glock to pieces! |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 4:42:59 PM EDT
[#23]
the sig round is nowhere near the gap on the dead and gone scale. It has its own loyal following but lots of major gun makers are still chambering the sig round |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 5:06:11 PM EDT
[#24]
I have a Sig 229 chambered in .357 Sig. I am glad I purchased a .40 SW barrel so that I can find ammo and can afford to shoot it. Not the most practical purchase I ever made. Kinda like that .400 Corbon barrel I have for my HK USP. Should have saved my money. Cant find the ammo anywhere locally and the cost is sky high.
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Posted: 1/18/2008 5:23:01 PM EDT
[#25]
I bought a Sig P239 with a .40 bbl and the free .357sig bbl.
I sold the .357 bbl and never thought about it again. This is why http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/66866-7166-155.html versus this for .40 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/58002-8972-184.html |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 5:37:53 PM EDT
[#26]
From the double tapp ammo website.
3.5" barrel - 1494fps 4.5" barrel - 1612fps Caliber : .357 Sig Bullet : 115gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP Ballistics : 1550fps / 614 ft. lbs. 4"bbl
Looks like the sig has an edge in some loadings. Heres the 147 grain loading. 3.5" barrel - 1213fps 4.5" barrel - 1296fps Caliber : .357 Sig Bullet : 147gr. Speer Gold Dot JHP Ballistics : 1250fps / 510 ft. lbs. 4"bbl Yep exactly the same as 9mm  |
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Posted: 1/18/2008 8:54:19 PM EDT
[#27]
I'v noteced all the .40 CPO Sigs have been coming with .357 berrels. I guess sig is trying to keep the .357 sig round alive. I for one like the cartredge. I just wish it was cheeper to shoot.
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Posted: 1/19/2008 11:56:35 AM EDT
[#28]
yep, the bashers are always full of misinformation. Even with WWB, I can get 1400fps from 125gr bullets through my G31. |
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Posted: 1/19/2008 2:02:36 PM EDT
[#29]
The .357 SIG gained some modest acceptance and is used by many agencies and departments as previous replies have noted. It is a potent cartridge, and there is no question about that.
However, from a standpoint of marketing (not ballistics!), it is somewhat of a marginal player. The danger of buying into things that only have a marginal share of the market is that they have a much greater chance of just going away someday than products with a stronger market share do. If you are old enough to remember this, compare it to Betamax versus VHS 25 years ago. Betamax was marginal, not enough people were buying, and the entire format went under, leaving people who had bought Betamax machines burned - they didn't even make good boat anchors! Back in 1985, the 10mm was the hottest new cartridge on the block, thanks largely to the Bren Ten, a TV cop show called Miami Vice, and a contract from the FBI. Now I ask you, how many 10mm pistols do you see being sold today, and how much 10mm ammo do you see behind the counter at WAL-MART? I'm not saying the .357 SIG is going to disappear, because it probably won't. But the skyrocketing price of ammo might not bode well for the future of cartridges that are more expensive to produce and have a lower production cost to sales ratio. That could cause the manufacturers to raise the prices on those less mainstream cartridges even more, which in turn could cause budget strapped departments to begin switching to more mainstream caliber weapons, which could set off a chain reaction that might lead to market extinction. If you fancy a .357 SIG, get one! Life's short, and one must follow his passion. Even if it ever did go under, it might be cool to own an "extinct" pistol. Hell, I'd love to own a minty Bren Ten today. Just keep the above in mind. As in all things, "Caveat Emptor." |
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Posted: 1/19/2008 2:10:12 PM EDT
[#30]
i love the that round... Pricey though
 I was using a glock 32c. Man that thing had a muzzle flash and was one of the loudest pistols i ever shot.... BOOOOM... people i was with aske what the f... was that!!! hehe |
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Posted: 1/19/2008 2:58:11 PM EDT
[#31]
I like the cartridge, for what I wanted it was the best choice. Ammo isn't " that " expensive and deff not more than buying premium 9mm +P+ .
It will survive..... |
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Posted: 1/20/2008 3:31:08 AM EDT
[#32]
You wish! Winchester only claims 1350fps for their ammo… (they don't say what the test was done with) - WW The numbers I stated were from Hornady's reloading manual, 7th edition… Got a beef with that, take it up with them. Likewise from Accurate Arms, for a 125gr bullet,no load reaches 1400fps! One Maximum load for No 9 nudges the 1400fps mark. In fact there are only 2 load exceeding 1400fps and they are with a 115gr bullet, Maximum load. Data was for a 4" - AA Now I am sure that someone may able to find a manufactures 'claim' of 1400fps with a 125gr but I would more interested in someone who chronographed such a result… And MY response was to someone wildly claiming a 115gr @ 1700fps… I am not bashing the 357 Sig, just trying to quell these wild and ludicrous claims. Once the BS is cleared away, and the 357 Sig is seen for what it really is, there is no need to bash it. |
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Posted: 1/20/2008 8:10:02 AM EDT
[#33]
I have chrono'd CCI 124gr GDs thru my old G31 at an average of 1450+ with several different lots and they run 1385 out of my G32. Well beyond 9mm +P+ territory and right in line with the many, many lots of 357 Mag / 125 JHPs I have chrono'd in years past from 2 1/2 to 4in revolvers (1250-1450fps). No flies on the 357Sig with these bullets. I carry a G32 and prefer it to either my G19 or G23. JMO
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Posted: 1/20/2008 8:29:23 AM EDT
[#34]
.357SIG is past its peak, and declining fast.
You couldn't dream up a better round for beancounters who make decisions. It has capacity, velocity, penetration, energy, and allows a small grip frame. If I could shoot "for free" and Glock offered better chamber support, I would have no problem using .357SIG. Unfortunatley I'm retiring at 50 and love to shoot a lot. Hence, I'll stick with 9mm. |
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Posted: 1/20/2008 10:49:26 AM EDT
[#35]
+1 |
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Posted: 1/20/2008 4:14:37 PM EDT
[#36]
I have no idea what those 'G' numbers represent and no interest to look into it… I am curious what these unlisted brands were though??? After all WW claims 1350 fps and Cor-Bon doesn't ever list a 125gr load. I also find it strange that reloading manuals don't meet these claims for the 357 Sig whereas they meet or exceed other cartridges such as 9mm, .357 Mag, 10mm and others. I do not think you realize how odd it is for anyone to exceed factory and reloading published data! |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 2:49:45 AM EDT
[#37]
Speer (used to be CCI / Speer) makes their 125gr (not 124...my mistake) Gold Dot in both ,357Sig and .357 Magnum. The full size Glock in .357Sig is the G31 and the G32 is the same as the Glock 19 size...'compact' if you will. I had access to a permenantly set up Ghler 33 chronograph for many years and have tested many different calibers in different guns and used to test every new lot of .357 Magnum ammunition my agency purchased before I issued it out. Yes, the Speer GD loads did exceed Speer's published velocities. I can only say what I found with that ammo in my two Glocks, but it is common for barrels with polygon rifling to have a slight velocity increase over standard cut rifling, and perhaps the barrels in those guns are 'fast'...I have seen that before and had a Sig 220 with a 'slow' barrel as well. Dunno...I am only telling what I saw with my own eyes. The .357 Magnum loads I mentioned above were all 125gr JHPs from Federal, WW and Remington and fired thru various 2 1/2, 3 and 4 inch barreled revolvers...mostly S&W K frames but including a few N frames and Colt Python and later a few L frames as well. WW had issues with primer setback but was very hot, Remington had some QC problems but at the time probably had the best bullet design with the old 'core-lockt' or whatever it was called, and Federal was the brand we settled on unless we simply could not get it. It worked very well in the limited number of shootings we had back then. With due respect, I don't think you realize how uncommon it is for high intensity handgun cartridges to exceed in factory loads what today's loading manuals show as 'maximum', and both the .40 and the .357Sig are blessed with a 'time / pressure spike' that goes almost straight up on a graph as soon as the trigger is pulled...one reason for many of those .40 caliber 'KBs" you see or hear about...mostly with reloads. I have a Star machine, a Dillon and an old RCBS Rockchucker and have probably loaded enough handgun ammo to fill a dump truck in years past, but I stopped trying to exceed factory velocities long ago. Maybe you should actually try chronographing some loads and see what you find. It might surprise you...or maybe not. |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 3:16:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Joker1 carries 357 sig. Yes it has more recoil, flash and expense. Yes a 9mm +p approaches the ballistics but lags behind at about 200 fps in all weights (Doubletapammo.com). In handgun ballistics 200 fps is a big difference IMHO.
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Posted: 1/21/2008 5:18:07 AM EDT
[#39]
You really have no clue as to what you're talking about. Try doing some actual chrono tests sometime. |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 8:30:36 AM EDT
[#40]
It did not meet any real need. Other popular rounds already did what was needed.  Read and learn: Best Ammo |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 12:03:11 PM EDT
[#41]
ikor: Thank you for the explanations.
I have been Handloading for 42 years and may have bought 4 boxes of Factory Ammo in that time… My first Chronograph used metallic screens and required a lookup table to convert the result from cycles in Octal into fps. – After computers came along I wrote a program to do that. Never saw anything in a Glock that could interest me, still don't. My .45 ACP and my 10mm and 40 S&W will do everything a 357 Sig can as Old_Painless has indicated. The 357 Sig like any round has a passionate following and seems to me to be a pretty good cartridge. But in that it does not offer anything beyond several other cartridges, I don't see much of a future for it. In the end, only time will tell. |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 12:13:27 PM EDT
[#42]
I REALLY like the 357 SIG.
Unfortunately I can't really tell that it does anything in real world application that Winchester Ranger T 127gr +P+ can't do, and I can buy cheap commie blasting ammo for the 9mm, so I've never bought one.
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Posted: 1/21/2008 12:43:40 PM EDT
[#43]
USSS and FAM still using the P229 in 357 Sig?
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Posted: 1/21/2008 12:50:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Among other things. .357 does well through cars. Other than that I'm not a fan. They are LOUD. |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 1:38:24 PM EDT
[#45]
TX DPS uses the 357 SIG, also. They like it's ability to penetrate barriers.
I shot about 2 mags out of a 1911 in 357 SIG. I loved it. it was flat shooting, accurate and not much recoil in a full sized 1911. I started researching the cartridge. What killed it for me was problems reloading for it. A bottle-neck cartridge that requires lube. A very short neck bearing surface for holding the bullet that translates into bullet setback problems under recoil unless sealent is used like the commercial manufacturers do. And it's performance is not that much superior to other cartidges that I already use and that cost less, 9, 40 and 45. No room in my budget or safe for boutique cartridges without any clear advantages over existing ones. Gringop |
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Posted: 1/21/2008 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#46]
gringop, in a 1911 9x23 is faster, can be reloaded and can use 147gr bullets. And its more reliable and holds more in the mag.
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Posted: 1/21/2008 7:17:30 PM EDT
[#47]
this cop let me fire a few .357 sig rounds thry his glock. i loved it, louder bang, not much more recoil than 9mm IMO.
thought about getting one for kicks-then saw the price for ammo and thought "i already have 9/40/45, why add to the logistical nightmare in the man-cave?" |
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