How should I "prove" my firearms are legal?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How should I "prove" my firearms are legal?

Posted: 9/10/2004 12:22:01 PM EDT

I am adding a bayonet lug and flash supressor to my AR15 after the ban lifts. Should I document this in case of future bans that have a grandfather clause?

Should I just write out the description and serial number of the gun and have it notarized? Would that be sufficient?

I am also adding a pistol grip to an Ithaca 37. I know it is legal now, but should I document it in case of other future bans with a grandfather clause?

What are you guys going to do?

Out

moved to GFD from the SF by FS :)

Posted: 9/10/2004 9:28:53 AM EDT

[#1]

1) change (fix) weapon

2) don't worry about documentation

3) take some photos if it makes you sleep well at night

4) if another Ban passes, there won't be a Grandfather Clause. We'll be lucky to get Registration instead of Confiscation

Posted: 9/10/2004 9:31:49 AM EDT

[#2]

Asl long as this is still America you shouldn't have to prove anything, it is the requirements of those wanting to prosecute you to prove that the rifle was never modified this way before the ban. Pretty much an imposible case. If your rifle is made before some hypothetical new ban you will be able to keep the goodies on it.

The fear is that there would be a new ban, and especially that it would not have a grandfather clause.

Posted: 9/10/2004 9:40:01 AM EDT

[#3]

Question: How do you prepare for a ban that doesn't exist?

Answer: You don't!

Posted: 9/10/2004 10:29:03 AM EDT

[#4]

In the early 80's, I added a flash suppressor to my mini-14. How was I to know that in 94 they would pass a stupid ban that said you may have to prove you did that before 1994. Well guess what?, in the ten years since 1994 it never came up. What's even more interesting is the unbelieveable number of post-ban hybrids with "Evil Features" I have seen at range almost everytime I go and no one has said boo! I sometimes wonder it has only been those of us on ARFCOM that have given a damn.

Still this time, I'll take a picture of the mods I'm making more for bragging rights than anything but just in case will add a news paper front page.

What the heck.

Tj

Posted: 9/10/2004 11:34:29 AM EDT

[#5]

TJ,
Can you explain the newspaper thing to me? I have heard several people mention this as a way to show status at a particular time but I don't see how it works? I can take a picture of my glock 30 laying on top of a newspaper that says "Germany Surrenders" but that doesn't make my Glock 50 years old....

Posted: 9/10/2004 11:41:25 AM EDT

[#6]

Point the muzzle at 'em and say "does it look legal now?"

Posted: 9/10/2004 1:56:06 PM EDT

[#7]

I'm saving all my receipts for the evil features that I put on. The receipts are dated and stapled to my original bill of sale for my firearms.

Posted: 9/10/2004 2:08:47 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Question: How do you prepare for a ban that doesn't exist?

Answer: You don't!

I do not have a crystal ball either. Enjoy what you can wile you can. Look what just happened in N.J. Here in So. Fl., They tried to push thru local laws wile all citizens were asleep. It did leak out and they were defeated. They did try however. We have some nasty self serving democrats here. They forget what it is they have come to and why it was here for them.

Posted: 9/10/2004 3:17:38 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
TJ,
Can you explain the newspaper thing to me? I have heard several people mention this as a way to show status at a particular time but I don't see how it works? I can take a picture of my glock 30 laying on top of a newspaper that says "Germany Surrenders" but that doesn't make my Glock 50 years old....

When I first read your post, I thought to myself "Uhhhh.... You don't understand??" - Then I realized what you were saying.

You're right, I don't see how taking pictures of your "AW" laying on a news paper will be of any use. If it was, then I could've taken a picture of all of mine in such configuration while the evil ban was still in place using a news paper from before the ban was put into law...

Might as well take the pictures with your AWs against a plain background. Right?

Posted: 9/10/2004 4:06:12 PM EDT

[#10]

No it doesn't prove a thing, however does create "Reasonable Doubt" and like I said some bragging rights.

If you wanted some sort of proof then you could write a sworn statement, have it witnenessed by two witnesses,and then notorized and sealed.

I don't think I'd care to do that like my flash suppressor of the early 80s if they want a deal out of it then I can get sworn statements at that time.

Tj

Posted: 9/10/2004 5:45:26 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
No it doesn't prove a thing, however does create "Reasonable Doubt" and like I said some bragging rights.

If you wanted some sort of proof then you could write a sworn statement, have it witnenessed by two witnesses,and then notorized and sealed.

I don't think I'd care to do that like my flash suppressor of the early 80s if they want a deal out of it then I can get sworn statements at that time.

Tj

Ah, I see. Maybe it's not such a bad idea to snap a few pictures this Monday. Just for fun if anything.
Yeah, if something's in the breeze then I'll get it notorized to be safe.

Posted: 9/10/2004 6:01:51 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
1) change (fix) weapon

2) don't worry about documentation

3) take some photos if it makes you sleep well at night

4) if another Ban passes, there won't be a Grandfather Clause. We'll be lucky to get Registration instead of Confiscation

+1

Posted: 9/10/2004 6:24:37 PM EDT

[#13]

I am more worried about a state ban.

Having it notarized seems much better and legal than "taking pictures."

Posted: 9/10/2004 6:35:15 PM EDT

[#14]

Not another one of these foolish threads.

DOOP!

We need a "ChickenShit Gun Owner" Forum.

Posted: 9/11/2004 5:36:43 AM EDT

[#15]

Markm -

Sorry, some of us have FAMILIES and gave up the macho outlaw stuff when we were 16. I would think that being SMART is better than being in jail.

Out

Posted: 9/11/2004 6:53:39 AM EDT

[#16]

ALthough taking a photo/saving receipts/ getting sworn statements notarized might not prove anything in the future, IT CAN'T HURT TO HAVE IT. Better to be a little paranoid and not need the proof than have Joe ATF cuffing you because you have no way to prove anything IMHO.

And to anyone who says that the burden of proof is on the government for a future ban, I simply direct them to the '94 ban. As far as I understand it, it is your burden of proof to show that the weapn was a fully assembled preban configuration rifle prior to 1994. Of course that don't mean sh*t in about 48 hours!

Posted: 9/11/2004 8:24:43 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
ALthough taking a photo/saving receipts/ getting sworn statements notarized might not prove anything in the future, IT CAN'T HURT TO HAVE IT. Better to be a little paranoid and not need the proof than have Joe ATF cuffing you because you have no way to prove anything IMHO.

And to anyone who says that the burden of proof is on the government for a future ban, I simply direct them to the '94 ban. As far as I understand it, it is your burden of proof to show that the weapn was a fully assembled preban configuration rifle prior to 1994. Of course that don't mean sh*t in about 48 hours!

Agree to the above. The thing about using a newspaper is to provide a background that will make the photo difficult to "alter" without detection.

For CYA purposes, and to self-insure for possible future "Grandfather" clauses, I will take photos of the weapon, its serial number, (temporarily filled in with some whitening compound, like toothpaste) and the alterations permitted by the ban's expiration, with (hopefully) all 3 visible in the same photo. If that's not possible, than I'll alter to suit circumstances.
In any event, the photo will be notarized, with a date stamp as well. Stored in a secure location, of course.

While a brief period of "Banlessness" can be expected after the 13th, a reintroduction on the Fed level is only a mass-murder away given a sympathetic Congress and White House. Such things cannot be predicted, so it is wise, IMHO, to take steps to "grandfather" oneself.

In addition, States and even Localities may attempt tp institute some sort of Ban, and the chances of their being immediately successful are quite good in some areas. This is perhaps a more pressing reason to take precautions than any other reason, at least depending on where you live. YMMV.

Posted: 9/11/2004 8:33:42 AM EDT

[#18]

I am going to do EXACTLY what MILLIONS of guys did in 1994 to "prove" the "pre-ban" status of their wepons...................................

NOTHING!!!

It seemed to work just fine for 10 years.

Posted: 9/11/2004 8:36:09 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Markm -

Sorry, some of us have FAMILIES and gave up the macho outlaw stuff when we were 16. I would think that being SMART is better than being in jail.

Out

I have a family. I've owned AR's for about seven years now. No one has ever asked me to prove that my shit was compliant BECAUSE NOBODY CARES.

Posted: 9/11/2004 9:12:08 AM EDT

[#20]

nobody cares...........YET.

Out.

Posted: 9/11/2004 10:30:48 AM EDT

[#21]

SeaCrest OUT!

Posted: 9/13/2004 9:20:15 AM EDT

[#22]

Must have forgot my brain meds the day I posted this. Trick to the photo proof is take the pic with the paper then mail a copy to yourself. Leave the envelope sealed. This ties the timeframe down due to the postmark which is federal stamp.

Tj

Posted: 9/13/2004 9:34:56 AM EDT