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Posted: 9/12/2002 6:26:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Let's make this easy and don't buy one. That way the people who want them can buy it. I personally like both. Some of my AR15 Prebans are a spitting image of my issue rifle. Thats why I bought it. So I can replicate the fit and feel of the rifle at the range on my own time.
On some of my prebans I collapse my stock for storage and when using body armor I can keep the same trigger pull. The flashhider makes night shooting easier. The Bayonet lug I have has not been used. However if I ever needed to use it at least I know how thanks to the Marine Corps. Do yourself a favor and don't buy one. You already talked yourself out of one.  max If you |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:06:27 AM EDT
[#2]
The ability to use a collapsible stock is worth it for me. I'm shorter (5'5"), so the ability to ratchet the stock in helps. and it's Hella-Cool looking, too.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:20:35 AM EDT
[#3]
The cost of a pre-ban is only worth it if it's worth it to you. It sounds like it's not, so don't torture yourself. Why buy it if you're going to be second-guessing the cost?
They don't function better than post-bans, so unless you want the collapsible stock, or do night shooting, or plan to bayonet anyone, don't bother. For me, I want something with a collapsable stock, so good Lord willing, I'll get a pre-ban someday. Absolutely nothing wrong with my postban, though. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:21:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Hawkeye,
Valid question. It doesn't limit the capabilities of the AR, nor does it really add any practical features, unless America becomes like it was in RED DAWN. If that is the case you would have to be unfortunate enough to be in the zone that has been occupied to have a possible need for those features. I can't think of any other need for one except the cool factor. Oh, by the way....I am a cool factor NUT. I will never need to use those features, so I have quit buying Pre-bans(for the Most Part) and will only buy the post bans(possibly) for all the reasons you mentioned above. 
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:25:47 AM EDT
[#5]
"Worth" is a uniquely personal concept.
You want a collapsible, and a flash suppressor, and want to be legal doing it? Then yes, its worth it. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:29:13 AM EDT
[#6]
If you believe in the 04 law sun setting or go into a lag time before another is in place, then pre-ban are worthless to you. when that time comes, you can put what ever you want on your post ban.
If you believe the 04 ruling is going to stand, then pre-ban might be worth it, since you can legally have flash hider and collapsible stock. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:44:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Its just that I could never shoot an AR with the stock collapsed. Arms are way to long. Mutant like long arms and neck.
My post ban carbine with its pinned collapsable stock is outstanding. I have shot enough full auto for Uncle Sam, that flash suppressors just dont get me excited. Cool yes. But they are suppressors, not eliminators. Full auto they are helpful but I havent seen much difference shooting semi. (Yes I have shot my fair shair with FS's and brake's) Bayo lug on a fullsize is a good feature. I just dont have any fullsizes or any plans to get one. I like carbines better. G-man, you make a good point. I guess worth is relevant to the individual. Thanks for all the responses. Part of me wants a preban just to have another. But, the practical side of me see's that another post ban and lots of ammo and accessories makes more sense. God, why cant I be independently wealthy so that money would not be a consideration in these things! |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:44:51 AM EDT
[#8]
and there you have it. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:50:06 AM EDT
[#9]
this is how i feel about it, if i have a 20 inch rifle, it will be a post ban, 8 or so hundred for the flash hider that does not work too good, and a bayo lug that i would probably never use, other than the picture of the rifle with the bayo mounted, but, if i wanted an m4, well, there are three things, the stock, the supressor, and the bayo lug, i would go for that, but not on the 20 inch gun, or the match unit
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Posted: 9/12/2002 7:55:24 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:09:18 AM EDT
[#11]
Man, no kidding. I have put Vortex's on all of mine and had to run out at night with the first one to "try it out" and it leaves NO noticeable flash. None. At least from behind. Perhaps someone could help me test the downrange view. I promise I won't shoot you. 
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:19:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Actually, quite a bit. Its all been done with an A2 FS and my Wilson Brake mind you. I have heard that the Phantom is much more effective than the A2. In semi auto fire with the naked eye, I havent seen $800 ($800 post ban vs $1600 pre ban rifle) worth of flash reduction from a A2 FS vs. say my Wilson brake. NVG might be a totally different story. Dont have any. Dont plan to. I am only concerned with what my bare eyes see. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:26:38 AM EDT
[#13]
If those "evil" features weren't necessary, they never would have put them there in the first place.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:30:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Think about this-- the pre-bans will probably JUMP in price if the AW ban does not sunset.... which I doubt it will. Look at it this way-- prices have gone up even on post-ban ARs since the AW ban. If they make another AW ban, they will probably go up even further, and have less features.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:31:50 AM EDT
[#15]
My prebans have A2 stocks. They have threaded, not pinned or soldered, flash supressors (no cans). They have unused bayonet lugs.
My postbans have A2 stocks, target crowns, except for that earsplitting AK shorty, and no bayonet lug. They all shoot the same point of aim. I do the same thing with all of them. Shoot. I can legally slap a 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, or beta mag in any of them. What's the difference? The AW ban. And what you want to do with them. I tell the wife that they are a wise investment. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:38:02 AM EDT
[#16]
I might be wrong on this but.... A bayo lug on a 20 inch barrel will mate to a standard issue bayonet. However, unless you have a SBR, a legal 16" M4 type barrel will not mate up with a bayo lug. I remember reading that the end of the 16" barrel to front sight distance was too long. So if you want to use a bayonet, you need to have a 20" preban upper. I think. Guys, feel free to correct me if I am wrong. Fuji |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:57:54 AM EDT
[#17]
My Bushy 11.5/5.5" will accept the M7 bayo.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 8:57:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Only if they're Colts
 Dirk |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:01:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Unless they are Colts.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:16:47 AM EDT
[#20]
I should have known.  You find me a Pre-be Colt, like your most recent one, at a decent price, and I'll get it. Seriously. Oooooorrrr, you could sell it to me at a decent price. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:19:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Save your money, Pre-Bans only have snob appeal for the gunner who wants to flash his wallet.
Flash hider, give me a break, I owned many a 16" before the ban, And I'll let you in on a little tiny secret, Your gonna have a heck of a lot of flash with a 16" barrel with anything you but on the Front of it, short of a suppressor. Bayonet lug, You have got to be kidding, Right? as for the Tele-stock, well I like 'em, but you would have to be out of your mind to pay an extra $800 dollars for one, there are other short stock options availible post ban. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:26:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Gee, we'd made it almost a whole page without someone making a stupid personal attack.  Shame on all us snobs who want pre-bans. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:29:31 AM EDT
[#23]
I do all my shooting out in the desert,no ranges for me. I must admit that the side folder and the collaspable stock look cool,unfortunatly my Rotti does not like either one,needles to say,she's always right there ready to go
 .There is somthing to be said about storage of these firearms,big bonus for me,maybe not so big for others. I'm not sure if I would buy anymore but I'm sure I will not sell these. Reasons for my purchases are,my constitutional rights and in the event that someday the Gov. might not be able to protect me or my family and I must do it my self,that being said,it would benifit "me" to spend the extra cash on ammo/clips/parts. Figure out where "you" stand in all of this,Hawk. Good luck/God Bless the U.S.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:33:39 AM EDT
[#24]
What sucks is my pre-ban sporter: only has 1 pre-ban feature-- a flash hider which helps a LOT more than not having one. Colt shaved off the bayo-lug (which is not just for a bayonette-- there are accessories out there, like a flashlight holder, etc.), and it has a standard stock.
The reason I bought it: so I can have a folding or collapsible stock and to keep the size of the flash down... |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:51:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Why you gotta get insulting? If you don't want one or can't afford one, don't buy it. Don't criticize those of us that want them and can afford them. I like them because they are the way an AR is supposed to be and you can't shoot NV with a postban. |
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Posted: 9/12/2002 11:36:51 AM EDT
[#26]
That is the same logic I used on the wife.
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Posted: 9/12/2002 9:19:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Isn't this like asking do I want a real War time M1 Garand or do I want a new Springfield one of ten thousand or so? They both shoot just as good,but what do you really want?
The same applies for the AR/15 ! They both shoot just as well but so on! Bob
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Posted: 9/13/2002 8:10:44 AM EDT
[#28]
So are you saying that a Colt 16" preban will accept the M7 bayo? But not a Bushy, RRA, etc.???
Or are you saying the opposite is true? -Fuji |
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Posted: 9/13/2002 8:27:40 AM EDT
[#29]
I find the tele-stock quite practical. My son is only 5' 8" and can't get a proper cheek weld on my A2's. Another benefit is that it fits in a 37" case. I need a 42" for my A2's. 5" doesn't sound like much until you consider that some cars have 40" trunk lids. |
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Posted: 9/13/2002 10:24:29 AM EDT
[#30]
I hope yours  beleives that line of shit more than mine does!!!
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Posted: 9/13/2002 11:07:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Some of us bought pre bans (before they *were* pre bans) many, many moons ago, when they were "cheap". Just as a FYI, look at what a POS Special Weapons HK 91 clone goes for, I paid less than that for a true HK. |
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Posted: 9/13/2002 12:09:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Get the pre-ban!!! And make it a COLT!
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Posted: 9/13/2002 12:44:45 PM EDT
[#33]
That's what I did a couple years ago. And today I just paid for a complete NEW all-Colt 16.1" M4 PRE-BAN parts kit! (everything but the lower) DROOL.....
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Posted: 9/13/2002 1:01:25 PM EDT
[#34]
You all forgot with a pre-ban you can attach a M203 grenade launcher.
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Posted: 9/13/2002 10:45:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Damn right... I use my M203 on a daily basis. Gotta love it when the "flocking" Canada geese land in the beanfield... Flock on! |
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Posted: 9/19/2002 7:46:56 AM EDT
[#36]
With a flash-hider, it comes in real handy when hunting at night.
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Posted: 9/19/2002 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#37]
You wanna see a fricken idiot,look no further i bought my Preban Bushy before the outright Ban here in Cali $2,200 buckaroo's.
But it was worth it to me because they are outlawed here. I sold the upper to my friend and he put it on his preban lower that he had bought when i bought mine. I wanted an A3 upper just in case and i really just use the A2 carry handle sights i have no optics for it as of yet. |
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Posted: 9/19/2002 4:37:34 PM EDT
[#38]
No, nuff said....
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Posted: 9/19/2002 5:06:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Yep, nuff said. If you can't afford one or don't want one, fine. Don't spout this BS. |
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Posted: 9/19/2002 10:56:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Everyone out there who thinks that a preban is going to cost them $800 more than a post ban istn doing their homework (or buying Colt's
 ). Look around, be patient, you can get good deals.My last project was a lightweight I wanted to build with specific parts. A new postban would have cost me $800 easily. I waited around and looked hard for good deals. I was fortunate and found them. Built the same exact preban gun for less than $1100. Are the features worth $800 more? Some people will pay to have what they want. I am among them. Do the features have to cost you so much more? Heck no. I built the exact gun I wanted for less than $300 more than what the post ban would have cost. Are they worth $250-$275 more. Clearly I thought so. |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 6:00:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Silly rabbit... Hehe.You know I wish I had the money to do it. If it werent for this danged house thing.............. |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 6:23:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Step #1: Is a MINI-14 really worth it over a Model 94 Winchester. If "no", purchase a Model 94 Winchester. If "yes", proceed to Step #2.
Step #2: Is an AR really worth it over a MINI-14? If "no", purchase a MINI-14. If "yes", proceed to Step #3. Step #3: Is a pre-ban AR really worth it over a post-ban AR? If "no", purchase a post-ban AR. If "yes", purchase a pre-ban AR. |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 9:57:34 AM EDT
[#43]
37mm Flare launchers, according to Bushmaster's web site, are supposedly legal on all firearms, except post-bans in the state of California. ("This product is NOT legal for use on Post-Ban Rifles in the state of California.: CM-2037 Flare Launcher) |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 4:11:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Yes, the 37mm launchers are legal on postban weapon's
The REAL M203 40mm impact grenade launcher with a 40mm rifled barrel is not legal on postban weapons. It's one of the assault weapon feature's. |
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Posted: 9/20/2002 10:40:13 PM EDT
[#45]
"A friend of mine" owns all 3 of these,,, Step #4: Tell me..... I mean HIM |
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Posted: 9/21/2002 5:29:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Heres my take on pre / post ban debate. Those who baught prebans before the ban when they were cheap and common are the smartest of the lot. They stand to turn a tidy profit if they sell. Those of us who's Ex Wife told them they couldn't afford it at the time are SOL.
I do not actually think that the preban features are worth it to me, others are willing to pay for them. There is of course some cool factor, but it really does not impress me. I just finished grinding off a Bayo lug and Adding a Cav comp to a former preban upper to make it post ban legal. 10 minutes of work including the tack weld on the roll pin. It still looks real cool and from 10 feet away noone will know its post ban. As for shooting, the Compensator is alot more valuable than the flash hider and what do I need a knife for when I got a gun. At any rate I suppose the short answer is pre or post ban is a personal descision one has to make for themselves. I personally can't see it being worth the money. |
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Posted: 9/21/2002 5:31:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Can we also own real M203 grenade launchers? hadn't really thought about that... If so, where would you get one legally? is it the usual $200 tax??? I bet grenades would be a bitch to get... hehe |
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Posted: 9/21/2002 5:35:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Bayonet on the gun-- how often would you use it when its ON the gun? the lug can be used for other accessories too.
Here's my question: the actual lug is banned, right? Can you legally mount a knife on a post-ban gun, without a lug? Use an accessory rail, a different kind of lug, etc.? |
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Posted: 9/21/2002 6:09:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Step 4. Registerd Full Auto Colt M16 Lower
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Posted: 9/21/2002 7:58:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Shoot some milspec ammo out of your carbine barrel at night and you wont be seeing much of anything any more if all you have is the Comp. The flash suppressor is the single most important feature of a preban IMHO. It is difficult to shoot at night without one. |
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