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Posted: 6/9/2002 7:09:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Bill Ruger should be ousted from the NRA that bastard should have stuck to making sewing machines.
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Posted: 6/9/2002 7:11:06 AM EDT
[#2]
I'll second the motion. Haven't bought a Ruger in years, anyway, and of the three I have 2 are black powder Old Armies. May the company go straight to hell.
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Posted: 6/9/2002 7:52:45 AM EDT
[#3]
Since SAAMI also supported the measure, I presume you all will be honest and consistant, and refrain from buying any U.S. manufactured ammo, ever.
You people crack me up. Sure Ruger screwed up. If you want to take a shot at him, let the first man who hasen't erred cast the first stone. After you donate at least a Million $ to the NRA. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:04:38 PM EDT
[#4]
raf,
Generally speaking, I don't buy U.S. manufactured ammo. It's either imported 7.62x39 or I load my own 5.56. Yes, I know the reloading components companies are also members of SAAMI, but at least I don't have to pay the outrageous prices they get for the stuff they load. Re NRA contributions, I suspect that the money I spent for a Life Membership was a greater percentage of my total assets than Ruger's donation was of his, and I didn't get an issue of The American Rifleman dedicated to my achievements. Sorry, but I stand by what I wrote earlier. 
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:40:04 PM EDT
[#5]
This is old, old, old, old, news that has been rehashed and beaten to death a million times. He tried to compromise with the antis on magazines so they would leave the guns alone. The author's statement that this would be at the expense of his competitors is ludicrous as, again, it would only deal with magazines. I don't understand his reasoning in saying this, other than a personal agenda. If his compromise had worked, we would not now be having to pay upwards of $1200 for prebans. Mags would be no more expensive than they are now, as the 1994 bill went even further than his suggested 15 round limit and went to 10 rounds. He realized the error of his ways and has tried to atone for his mistakes.
He realized he made a mistake trying to compromise and stated so.
The above quotes are from the same article. The author just has his own personal axe to grind. Many who condemn Ruger are quick to forgive Smith and Wesson, even though they have never recanted the agreement they made with Clinton. You should read THAT piece of paper. But many say that since they are back in American hands, all should be forgiven. They ignore the fact that S&W is owned by SafTHammer, a company that would love to see mandatory trigger locks, their main product. For someone to make a remark that Ruger would have supported SB23 based on this article and something that happened 13 years ago is assinine. Did he support SB23? I didn't think so. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:49:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Oh well just don't buy any of his new Mini-14 , your hi-cap aftermarket mags won't fit any more .
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Posted: 6/9/2002 9:58:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Saw this posting somewhere.... someone said it was false. or you have proof from Ruger. |
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Posted: 6/9/2002 10:08:27 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 6/9/2002 10:10:24 PM EDT
[#9]
I spoke to Ruger last week about this, They assured me that it was B.S.  |
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Posted: 6/10/2002 7:51:09 AM EDT
[#10]
A heads up for some of you guys. Bill Ruger has been dead for some time. Ousting him from the NRA is unlikely to have any effect. Watch-Six
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Posted: 6/10/2002 3:39:51 PM EDT
[#11]
I hope Bill Ruger dies a slow and painfilled death that even morphine wont take the edge off of.I hope that towards the end he is insane from the pain, then goes straight to hell.
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Posted: 6/11/2002 4:47:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Bill Ruger is the one who lobbied for the high capacity magazine ban, before the liberals hopped on board. He also stopped selling folding stocks, 20 and 30 rounds mags to the public voluntarily. He was in the halls of Washington pleading his rifles are not designed to “assault” people, to save his own butt from government targeting he saw coming to Colt and others. He is a scumbag and not your friend.
He was not alone in this type of action then and now. I hope he died a painful death. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 6:01:04 AM EDT
[#13]
colklink and Flashbang1, your lack of compassion speaks volumes about you both.
With you two as ambassadors of goodwill for the gun culture, we're in deep trouble. Clean up your own act before you preach about the sins of another. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 8:03:11 AM EDT
[#14]
I know a man here in Missouri who knew Bill Ruger personally, he was an acquaintance but never a friend. Says Mr. Ruger was a rich jerk and a true elitist but that he did know his firearms, he knew his products and he could do the math.
Having never met the man, I hold the magazine thing against him but I think Ruger has made some high quality products, especially revolvers, over the years, and I'm sure he deserves at least some of the credit for that. The most important thing about this is that we learn from his mistake. Smith and Wesson should have looked at the Bill Ruger story before they made (and now have breached) their infamous deal with the government. They could have saved themselves a boycott and alot of trouble if they had learned from the example of what happened with the magazine ban. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 8:03:43 AM EDT
[#15]
First off before the flames, I am a current NRA member and actively write all my district legislators very regularly, and vote. I am on you side and we always be on your side, I just have a no compromise ever view. Compromise is a good thing I guess. The NRA help us all out with that NICS check "compromise" verses a 5-day waiting period, that is "not" a government list of all USA gun owners. Gee, isn't that the same sort of "we will never use this information to compile a list of [firearm] owners for later confiscation" list Hitler used in '29 to find and confiscate all firearms in the country? Remember the founding fathers did not make the 2nd for duck hunters and ranch hands, and it surly wasn’t designed for future “compromises”. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 8:06:46 AM EDT
[#16]
Save your hate for the people really at the bottom of all this: the ANTIS! BTW, Hitler came to power in 1933, not 1929. Maybe you ought to dig into this Ruger matter a little more deeply. I assure you, it's not all black-and-white. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 8:14:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Yes, your right my bad, Hitler used the list that was compiled in '29 when registration was enforced. |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:18:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Haven't made up my mind either way and I was seriously considering a gp100. Just sounds like he sacrificed the greater good for the sake of profit then donated $1M to try to make up for it. I think his semi-auto handguns suck anyway. Guess he figured he would screw his competitors who could make a nice semi-auto pistol and capture a little more of the total market. Just my first impression - new to the gun scene and looking to pick up my first 6 shooter. Happy for now though with gov.1911, HK USP45f with the 10 rounders, CZ75, AR, AK (all with high caps anyway), Moss.500, and yes, a RUGER 10/22 (but who doesn't have one?- just wish my parents could find that 30 rounder I got for my birthday as a kid).
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Posted: 6/11/2002 9:42:35 AM EDT
[#19]
It strike me funny how people single out Ruger, when Colt, S&W and all the other main name firearms companies have all participated in the past to gun control laws time to time. Even the makers of the famed Tommy Gun supported the Machine-gun & destructive device ban.
Dave Dee NRA/ILA and NAHC Member AR15.COM Moderator of Reloading, General Firearm Discussion & Hunting Forum. A great place to get answers to your reloading & hunting questions. Or come and take a look at my web page at. members.aol.com/dbrewer842/dbrewer842.html |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 10:01:40 AM EDT
[#20]
You have a point there. It would be interesting to compile a list of all the major and minor gun companies along with a list of their "sins" to put things in perspective. So far as I know, almost everyone supported the machine gun ban including the NRA. It was the beginning of the long list of comprimises that plagues us today. What companies have not EVER supported ANY anti-freedom legislation? |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 10:14:53 AM EDT
[#21]
As for the $1M to make up for it, go read the article linked to above. He made a mistake and realized it. He publicly declared as such, if you read the article.
For all of you who keep saying he was screwing his competitors, read the damn article. All he tried to compromise on was magazines, so they would leave ALL MANUFACTURERS guns ALONE. How is that screwing your competitors? |
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Posted: 6/11/2002 2:36:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Raf,maybe I came on a little strong(a bad day at work and being in the middle of my 3 jack and coke will do that to me)but the way I read it that sonafabitch sold out a piece of my rkba to protect his market share!!!!Now I can feel compasion for Sara Brady whats her name the congress woman in NY who suffered a personal tragedy that led to there current crusade against the rkba,but this c#cksucker is supposed to be on our side,and he stabbed ME in the back over goddamn dirty green paper.So If I offended you Raf I am sorry,but I wish nothing but ill will for Bill Ruger in this life and the next.
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Posted: 6/11/2002 3:02:05 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 6/11/2002 6:23:21 PM EDT
[#24]
There are actual a surprising number of people on record saying that Bill Rugar did it for market share. Chief among these are Neal Knox and one of the marketing guys who worked for Rugar. The ban that Bill proposed was to ban large capacity magazines for center-fire ammo... not for rimfire which was a hugely sucessful product for Ruger in the 10/22.
You have to understand the history of competition that faced Ruger which can from the so-called AW rifles. The stigma of the Vietnam war didn't do well to help sales of the AR and AKs. It wasn't until the very late 70's and early 80's when sales of the AR and cheap imports of the AK series started to gain significant market share. This was significant because these rifles competed effectively with Ruger's flagship product for cheap ammo (surplus) and little recoil compared to the previous types of military surplus rifles available (30-06, 7mm, 8mm, etc). This is all well-document from Bill Ruger and others within Ruger. Tie all this with the movement of pistols from revolvers to 9mm automatics, Ruger knew they were in trouble. Thus, it is clear to me that Bill's true motivation was to remove competition for his company. Look at it this way, in the seventies every teenager I knew wanted a 10/22 and a Ruger 357mag or 44. Now it seems that teenages aspire to own an AR and a glock. |
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:19:23 PM EDT
[#25]
I did read the article, and MY opinion is that he wrote letters,publicly stated that "no one honest needs more than 10 rnds in a mag", and low and behold the goddamn mini14 is one of the few semiauto centerfire rifles legal for the shooters of kaliforia to buy,and is mentioned by name in the 94 ASW as being legal and all.I think that when a man of Bill Rugers importance in the gun industry goes over to the other side of the debate of this issue and our enemies throw him an f#cking bone I dont need a picture drawn for me.As for him atoning, I have yet to see a full page add in any gun magazine saying he is sorry for selling out MY rkba by lobbying congress for the mag ban.
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:24:13 PM EDT
[#26]
P.S. LarryG I do not own a Ruger,Colt,or Smith and Wesson,nor would I.I own glocks, a few pistols and revolvers from Taurus,a few bushmasters, and few winchesters.Oh and a browning buckmark.
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Posted: 6/12/2002 4:25:15 PM EDT
[#27]
I did read the article, and MY opinion is that he wrote letters,publicly stated that "no one honest needs more than 10 rnds in a mag", and low and behold the goddamn mini14 is one of the few semiauto centerfire rifles legal for the shooters of kaliforia to buy,and is mentioned by name in the 94 ASW as being legal and all.I think that when a man of Bill Rugers importance in the gun industry goes over to the other side of the debate of this issue and our enemies throw him an f#cking bone I dont need a picture drawn for me.As for him atoning, I have yet to see a full page add in any gun magazine saying he is sorry for selling out MY rkba by lobbying congress for the mag ban.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 11:54:57 AM EDT
[#28]
My read was right along the line wiht what the Col. said. And I did shoot a couple rugers when looking for a pistol and I "thought" (my opinion) that they SUCK.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 8:24:25 PM EDT
[#29]
if bill was an anti like people are saying,why would he own a gun company?ruger makes one hell of a good product,any of the reloaders know there are loads for ruger only revolvers,to hot for smith,colt and the others
I PROUDLY OWN 8 RUGERS AND WILL BUY MORE!!!!!!! GET OFF THE MANS ASS,if he diddn't make a quality product would he be in business for fifty years,a hell of a long time for an anti to be in the gun business |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 8:44:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Still say for someone who is 'new to guns' to declare the Ruger semiauto pistols no good is ludicrous. The Mini is legal because of it's appearance and no other reason. This was no plot by Ruger. The entire ban, including Kali's, is based on APPEARANCE and nothing else. The Mini has always looked the way it does now. It was not some plot by Bill Ruger. Sheesh! What? Did Ruger pay them off or something? Again, all he ever got involved in was magazines, not types of guns. You may have read the article, but your reading comprehension skills need to be honed. Maybe you DO need a PICTURE drawn for you.
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Posted: 6/13/2002 8:45:25 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 6/13/2002 9:11:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Hmm let's see, if someone conciously makes decision that erodes my freedoms for the direct benefit of his company, and then pays off the NRA with a $1M from the profits of that decision and says he's sorry, I should forgive him??
As for why someone anti-gun would own a gun company, I believe for the money it makes. If you read the history of Sturm-Ruger, his original partner was the gun enthusiast, Ruger was just the business guy. The next point I would like to make is that the quality of the Ruger designs has the same relationship to Bill Ruger's devotion to guns that the quality of the code written at Microsoft has to Bill Gates programming ability. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 9:14:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Did I miss SOMETHING?!?!?!? I thought Ruger's pistol designs were among the strongest known to man?!?!? I guess most of my reloading manuals must be wrong.... they state higher power loads ONLY FOR USE IN RUGERS. I guess I have been shooting the wrong pistols/rifles all these years. Maybe one of you experts needs to point me in the right direction. Why do other companies COPY Ruger designs if they SUCK so bad? Anyone remember the little AMT rifle, a direct copy of the 10/22, that got their asses sued?!?!? A few years ago, another company Freedom Arms chambered a revolver with what then was "the most powerfull handgun cartrige in the world". The 454 Casull. I won't call the Freedom Arms Revolver a COPY of the SUPER BLACK HAWK, for fear of getting anyone's ass hairs up, but the weapon appears to be IDENTICAL to the BLACKHAWK, innards and all. Coincidence?, I DOUBT IT. AS for the much debated mini 14. It is not a match rife, nor is it priced like one. Low maintinece weapon that goes bang everytime, accurate enough for utility use. (coyote busting, etc...) M77 and M77 MKII rifles, based on the Mauser claw type actions. ENOUGH SAID! So go on and have your Whines and Cries about the man. BUT you are really "SHOWIN' YOUR IGNORANCE" When you put down time tested, proven products. |
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Posted: 6/13/2002 11:10:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Bill Ruger, Sr. is retired, or so I've been told. Regardless, I cannot forgive his compromise. History has shown that each compromise leads to a loss of our rights, and there was nothing to indicate this time would be any different. And behold, it wasn't! We should just be grateful that the "non-sporting" rifles weren't outlawed completely. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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Posted: 6/15/2002 5:26:43 AM EDT
[#35]
I never said that ruger dosnt make a quality product.I think his revolvers are probably the best on the market.My problem is with his letters to congress before the vote on the AWB.I just remember how close the vote was in the house and cant help but think that some congressmen who were undecided may have been swayed by a giant of the gun industry saying that no one honest needs more than ten rnds in a mag.I guess LarryG I should just be thankfull he didnt say 5 rnds or 3.
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Posted: 6/15/2002 7:04:24 AM EDT
[#36]
Are you perfect? Have you never made a mistake? The man screwed up, has admitted it, and has tried to make up for it. What's the old saying "He who is without sin cast the first stone". You just keep repeating the same old tired, worn out, drivel. |
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Posted: 6/15/2002 7:31:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Just face it, LarryG. Bill Ruger is no better than Chuck Schumer or Diane Feinstein, or Josh Sugerman.
You see, all it takes is one mistake to be as bad as people who have devoted their entire careers to screwing all gunowners. No difference at all. And forget that business of acknowledging the mistake and trying to make amends. Who's gonna fall for that? Anybody can donate over a million dollars to the NRA and other RKBA organizations. Hell, I might just donate a spare couple of mil myself. As for the quality of his products, well let's just say that every one of the millions of Ruger gun purchasers are dupes. So, LarryG, don't bother to defend Ruger. Like some of the posters above have hoped, he'll probably die a painful lingering death, and wind up in hell alongside Sara Brady and all the other Antis. Now you'll have to excuse me, I've gotta polish my halo. 
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Posted: 6/15/2002 7:43:29 AM EDT
[#38]
There's a much easier reason not to buy Rugers, and that because they are crap. There are a lot better guns on the market for the same amount of money. Rugers are just about most inaccurate firearm ever produced, this isn't just the Mini 14 but their rifles and pistols. I will never buy another Ruger just because I been there and done that and came away the loser.
Bill3508 |
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Posted: 6/15/2002 8:22:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Better get rid of the Taurus guns, because they are one of the companies pushing for "Smart gun" technology and activily working on it. Read the link.... www.taurususa.com/njitrel.html |
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Posted: 6/15/2002 8:32:58 AM EDT
[#40]
That's very interesting. I had not heard that before. Please supply the full description of your numerous comparison tests which led you to this startling and unequivocal conclusion. Just so we understand each other, you are saying that every Ruger firearm made is innaccurate, and a bad value. |
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Posted: 6/16/2002 6:22:25 AM EDT
[#41]
LarryG,I am sorry If I offended you,please lets not let this degenerate into a kma fest.I have always heard rumours about Bill Rugers imput into the 94 awb,but untill I saw this thread and read the article I had now idea what had really transpired,and it just pissed me off.The same way it pisses me off when I am working in the gun store and we have an ak or ar on the shelf and some comes in to look at muzzle loaders or over/under shotguns and says,you shouldnt be aloud to sell that,no one needs something like that.Sometimes I just feel like I am a member of the smallest oppressed minorety left in this country,fans of millitary style semiautos.Of course I am not perfect,but I would never screw over even one person for money,let alone however millions of firearms owners there are.So why did Bill piss me off?Because he should have know better than to make statements like he did about mag capacity.As an important man in this field people will listen to him.Guess I made a big deal about this cause this is the first time I had read the whole story.
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Posted: 6/16/2002 6:35:21 AM EDT
[#42]
I understand how you feel. And I share most of your sentiments. Just keep a few things in mind: We are all looking back on this with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. At the time, and without benefit of that hindsight, Ruger made a mistake. I wasn't born politically aware, and I don't think Bill Ruger was either. It took time and work to educate myself to where I am now. A lot of what I know is learned from the mistakes of others, Ruger included. I try not to make the same mistake twice, and I doubt Bill Ruger, with this experience under his belt, is likely to make a mistake like this ever again. It's possible that you, I, or many other people in the same spot at the same time might have made much the same mistake. Sad to say, but it's possible. At least Ruger's tride to make amends, and come back to the right side. Something that can't be said about S&W. |
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Posted: 6/16/2002 7:04:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Good points Raf,guess I get pissed to easily when I think others are trying to deal my rights away,and when I think of spending 20 bucks on a usgi mag that should only cost 10.Hell I could have 100 instead of just 50.Also the first day I read this I had a bad day at work and was into the bourbon by the time I read it.Maybe if I read it again sober it wouldnt seem so bad
.Also have had a touch of flu towards the end of the week,and had a temp of 101.2 when I posted my smartass comment to LarryG.Like my wife says there is no one in this world as big a baby as me as when I am sick......
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Posted: 6/16/2002 7:25:03 AM EDT
[#44]
I hear ya, col. I'm feeling a little queasy, too. Hope you feel better soon!
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Posted: 6/18/2002 7:17:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Whatever you say Larry, and Chaos, if you would bother to read my previous post, I am very interested in a Ruger revolver and I know they are some of the strongest guns of their class. Maybe you guys got lucky with your semi-autos (congratulations) but the ones I shot were not accurate (maybe that's my fault but I shoot just fine with glocks, hks, sigs, kimbers, and czs) and more importantly, did NOT go bang every time.
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Posted: 6/18/2002 8:16:22 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 6/18/2002 8:32:16 AM EDT
[#47]
I suppose it's possible that Mr. Ruger simply misjudged the antis when he thought he could compromise, and then realized the error. But, do you think it's possible he just snookered them? Talk the good line, then do what you want. Seems to be the way it worked out. If anything was wrong, it was simply to give encouragement to the intractable, such as Feinswine, et al. Looks like S&W is another one who said a lot, did a little and went their way, humoring the nuts. I just don't feel humoring is the right way to go, but it looks like it worked.
As far as Ruger products, I've owned (note past tense) a few. The revolvers were strong, and the Mini utilitarian. I just liked others better. Someone once said to me that "Bill Ruger was a machinist, not a gunsmith." I tend to agree with that. |
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Posted: 6/24/2002 8:48:53 PM EDT
[#48]
just my 2 cents worth rjroberts
maybe colt,glock,sig and others are machinist also,along with bushy,oly and armalite,true gunsmith improve a product,not make it kinda what makes our little bang bang world go around for what it s worth my vaquero is dead on accurate out of the box,not bad for a gun with no adjustable sights,from a machinist |
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Posted: 6/26/2002 8:47:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Colt did the same thing in Maryland when they wrote the assault weapons ban. Colt came in and lobbied and kissed a#s and got the ar15 heavy barrel written into law as being legal.
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Posted: 6/26/2002 10:58:45 PM EDT
[#50]
For those who have problems with the person who said that in his opinion, "Rugers suck!", it is his/her opinion. I have owned one Ruger 9mm that went bang most of the time, had a very inconsistant trigger and was only so-so in accuracy. I have a friend with a Ruger 45 and mini-14 that have good accuracy (but still lousy triggers). And another friend bought a Ruger 9mm that you literally had to squeeze the trigger like you were crushing walnuts - who knows if it was accurate?!
But Ruger's $1M strikes me the same as mideval Catholics paying the church to get into heaven. If he really wanted to do good with it, give the $1M to GOA or SAF. |
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