pre ban lower, rusted beyond repair?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - pre ban lower, rusted beyond repair?

Posted: 6/8/2002 8:28:11 PM EDT

im not sure how bad it is. i may be building a posty 20 inch a2 for a guy. he had a house fire, and he seems to have a pre ban lower half that got watered bu the fire dept, and is now rusting. im gonna look at it, if its workable im proly gonna work out some sorta trade. i think its a colt
(cause he removed the searbock, just dont ask) if its a colt, will they replace it as a preban???( new receiver with same numbers) if i can get it replaced, and it has a light coat of rust, how (and how much$) to fix it?

thanks
matt

Posted: 6/8/2002 8:29:35 PM EDT

[#1]

How the hell did an aluminum reciever rust?

Posted: 6/8/2002 8:31:41 PM EDT

[#2]

How do you get an aluminum part to rust from a dousing by the fire department?

I'd be more concerned that they used some sort of chemical fire retardent that has actually pitted the metal. If they just used water, the lower, at worst, probably just needs to be cleaned well, and possibly refinished.

Posted: 6/8/2002 8:47:33 PM EDT

[#3]

In the worst case scenario, as long as the serial number is intact you can have the entire lower rebuilt. This applies even if it is broken and smashed beyond repair. In other words, if the serial number is good there is no such thing as "beyond repair". Cost is another matter, I don't have a clue there...

Posted: 6/8/2002 8:56:44 PM EDT

[#4]

thier is also a chance the receiver was scorched, i hear it was a helluva fire.if i get it, and it just needs to be cleaned, i think i will have another preban project going. as for replacing the lower, i think the original maker has to do it, and that isnt always an option.

Posted: 6/8/2002 9:11:04 PM EDT

[#5]

Bad news--if it's a Colt, they won't touch it to give you a new receiver/same serial #. (That is what I have heard from a coule of people).

Posted: 6/8/2002 9:34:57 PM EDT

[#6]

I believe the legal "key" is to rebuild, not replace. I know there is a guy that can rebuild it using the old serial number (and nothing else if neccesary), but unfortunately I cannot think of a name.

Posted: 6/9/2002 1:26:47 PM EDT

[#7]

Talk to fellow member STOKES. He had a pre-ban Colt lower replaced.

Posted: 6/9/2002 5:03:10 PM EDT

[#8]

im still hoping this receiver is less rusted and more just covered with baked on ash or something.

Posted: 6/9/2002 5:17:40 PM EDT

[#9]

As long as it isn't melted or warped, and it isn't pitted too badly, I would think you could just have it glass beaded and refinished.

Posted: 6/9/2002 5:37:31 PM EDT

[#10]

Depends on how the FD put the fire out.. A spot cleanup involving dry chemical, and water will eat aluminimum..If you have lots of white fuzzy corrosion, coupled with extensive pitting, the reciever is probably unserviceable..

Also, exposing 7075 T6 to excessive heat can damage it.. (It may not be unsafe to fire, but will wear very quickly.)

How much damage is there? Pistol grip, and buttstock melted, or burned off?

Meplat-

Posted: 6/9/2002 9:13:09 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I believe the legal "key" is to rebuild, not replace. I know there is a guy that can rebuild it using the old serial number (and nothing else if neccesary), but unfortunately I cannot think of a name.

If it involves another reciever, only the original manufacturer can legally do that.

Posted: 6/9/2002 9:31:42 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I believe the legal "key" is to rebuild, not replace. I know there is a guy that can rebuild it using the old serial number (and nothing else if neccesary), but unfortunately I cannot think of a name.
If it involves another reciever, only the original manufacturer can legally do that.

Not necessarily, you are thinking replace (which can only be done by the original manufacturere), there is a huge legal difference between replace and repair.

I believe the gentleman you are referring is John Norrell. He does awesome work and can take only a serial number and basically graft it flush into another received and POOF! you have a repaired pre-ban.

This is also the only way to repair an M16 lower that was damaged. All you need is the small portion of the mag well with the serial number on it and he can do it. I hear that he isn't continuing this service anymore, but if you can track him down, maybe you can "talk" him into doing it.

The guys over at subguns.com would know more about this.....

Posted: 6/9/2002 9:44:34 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Not necessarily, you are thinking replace (which can only be done by the original manufacturere), there is a huge legal difference between replace and repair.

I believe the gentleman you are referring is John Norrell. He does awesome work and can take only a serial number and basically graft it flush into another received and POOF! you have a repaired pre-ban.

This is also the only way to repair an M16 lower that was damaged. All you need is the small portion of the mag well with the serial number on it and he can do it. I hear that he isn't continuing this service anymore, but if you can track him down, maybe you can "talk" him into doing it.

The guys over at subguns.com would know more about this.....

Is this really legal? Taking a serial # section from a damaged lower and grafting it onto a new forging?

Posted: 6/9/2002 10:03:48 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I believe the legal "key" is to rebuild, not replace. I know there is a guy that can rebuild it using the old serial number (and nothing else if neccesary), but unfortunately I cannot think of a name.
If it involves another reciever, only the original manufacturer can legally do that.

Not necessarily, you are thinking replace (which can only be done by the original manufacturere), there is a huge legal difference between replace and repair.

I believe the gentleman you are referring is John Norrell. He does awesome work and can take only a serial number and basically graft it flush into another received and POOF! you have a repaired pre-ban.

This is also the only way to repair an M16 lower that was damaged. All you need is the small portion of the mag well with the serial number on it and he can do it. I hear that he isn't continuing this service anymore, but if you can track him down, maybe you can "talk" him into doing it.

The guys over at subguns.com would know more about this.....

Semantics aside, this is replacing a reciever and not repairing it. It is another reciever, by your own admission. This guy may be doing it, but it's not legal. He probably is not continuing this service anymore because he was most likely warned not to do it anymore. An M16 reciever can also be sent to the original manufacturer to replaced by one with the same serial number. Now, if Colt's refuses to do it, you are SOL.

Posted: 6/9/2002 10:10:56 PM EDT

[#15]

Knowing the politics out there, Colt probably won't.

It's the entire plan of the anti's.... wait for the pre bans to wear out and they everything will be the same.....

Posted: 6/10/2002 5:45:24 AM EDT

[#16]

An M16 reciever can also be sent to the original manufacturer to replaced by one with the same serial number. Now, if Colt's refuses to do it, you are SOL.

Not true an AR15 reciever can be replaced by the original manufacturer, I beleieve Oly has done it. But NFA weapons (M16) can not be replaced, even by the manufacturer.

Posted: 6/10/2002 7:32:54 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Not necessarily, you are thinking replace (which can only be done by the original manufacturere), there is a huge legal difference between replace and repair.

I believe the gentleman you are referring is John Norrell. He does awesome work and can take only a serial number and basically graft it flush into another received and POOF! you have a repaired pre-ban.

This is also the only way to repair an M16 lower that was damaged. All you need is the small portion of the mag well with the serial number on it and he can do it. I hear that he isn't continuing this service anymore, but if you can track him down, maybe you can "talk" him into doing it.

The guys over at subguns.com would know more about this.....

Do you guys realize how much this costs? It's economical to have machineguns repaired like this but would be dumb to go to this extent for a preban AR. It would be much simpler and cheaper to just buy a new one.

Posted: 6/10/2002 7:51:11 AM EDT

[#18]

You can't just replace an M16 lower, no matter what happened to it or even if its a factory defect. Grafting in onto another receiver is the only option.

Yes its expensive and its probably not worth it on just a pre-ban. But with a limited quantity of transferable M16's its definitely an option.

The serial number on the receiver is the only non-repairable part. If thats intact, you can do whatever you can do repair the rest of the receiver.

I wish I knew more of the details about it, but the guys over at the Bowers boards do.....

Posted: 6/12/2002 8:35:47 AM EDT

[#19]

Don't tell my wife; she may try to have me rebuilt if all that needs to be original is the serial number!

Posted: 6/12/2002 12:22:41 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Bad news--if it's a Colt, they won't touch it to give you a new receiver/same serial #. (That is what I have heard from a coule of people).

One more reason not to buy Colt. I have a preban AR that is very nice but I'll never buy another gun from them. All they've done for the past 15 years is crap on their customers.

Posted: 6/12/2002 8:06:26 PM EDT

[#21]

PREBAN's can be replaced by original manufacturer. Olympic Arms will do it for $100 and is one of the few who advertise this option openly. You could go from cast to Forged, Titanium, or MAXhard. It does NOT have to be the same metal, just same serial #.

RR's CANNOT be replaced, just repaired.

mark

Posted: 6/13/2002 1:42:39 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
Bad news--if it's a Colt, they won't touch it to give you a new receiver/same serial #. (That is what I have heard from a coule of people).

If you don't know what you are talking about, it's probably best to refrain from offering advice.

There are at least two members here at AR15.com who have had damaged pre-ban Colt AR-15 lower receivers REPLACED by Colt. Colt simply transfers the serial numbers from the damaged lower to a new one and then completely destroys the old one, all in accordance with BATF regulations.

And by both accounts, although Colt took their time doing it, these two were both ultimately very pleased with the product that Colt returned.

These instances have been well documented here.

Quoted:
One more reason not to buy Colt. I have a preban AR that is very nice but I'll never buy another gun from them. All they've done for the past 15 years is crap on their customers.

Actually, this is just another of the very good reasons to buy pre-ban Colts. Colt will replace it if it gets damaged. How many other companies will do this? Who's going to replace a pre-ban Essential Arms, PWA, Sendra, BOHICA, etc? Last I heard, even Bushmaster was unwilling to replace damaged pre-ban lower recievers. (Hopefully that stance has changed, and I'd like to hear about it if it has)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - pre ban lower, rusted beyond repair?

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