Pro's and Con's of the .357sig round?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pro's and Con's of the .357sig round?

Posted: 5/12/2002 4:51:14 PM EDT

*I already posted this in handguns.ar15.com but I wanted to get some more opinions.

I am thinking about the glock 33 as my new carry weapon,but how is the .357sig round compared to the 9mm?

Posted: 5/12/2002 4:54:08 PM EDT

[#1]

Cost and availability would be the only cons I can think of.

Faster than a .357 Magnum, who wouldn't love that?

Posted: 5/12/2002 4:59:03 PM EDT

[#2]

The 357 Sig is much hotter then the 9mm if loaded correctly. The 115 to 125 grain bullets are ideal (saw one 147 grain load by S&B I think). The bottle neck, so some say, actually helps it load better.

One bad thing about the 357 Sig is, the regular Winchester 'plinking' ammo is expensive. About $14 a box (in my area) while nines are in the $8-10 a box of 50.

If you get a G33, if you ever wanted to switch to 40 SW, all you have to do is put a 40 barrel in. That's it. I put a 357 Sig barrel in my 27... and have a 40 barrel on the way for my 31.

Posted: 5/12/2002 5:07:43 PM EDT

[#3]

Since its introduction, more and more companies are offering at least one load. Prices have also come down quite a bit. What used to cost $22 for a box of fifty (50) now costs under $15. Check out Cheaper Than Dirt. CDNN Investments also had 50 count boxes of 125gr. Gold Dots for $10.

The only con I can think of is how securely the bullet is gripped by the case neck. Repeated chambering and extraction of unfired rounds can cause some bullet setback.

Posted: 5/12/2002 5:59:46 PM EDT

[#4]

Pro's

Factory defensive loads are very close to .357 magnum performane. Bottleneck cartridge helps avoid some FTF type malfunctions.

Far superior to 9mm in hitting power.

Con's

Relatively expensive, and you cant find it at your local Wal-Mart (at least I haven't).

Has snappy recoil compared to a 9mm. Duh same bullet leaving faster.

As mentioned earlier, try to avoid chambering and rechambering rounds.

I have also heard (but don't know first hand yet) that reloading them is more like reloading a rifle because of the necked cases.

Posted: 5/12/2002 6:07:39 PM EDT

[#5]

I was at indoor range in the lane next to someone that was firing the 357 Sig, man was it loud. I guess, that shouldn't be a surprise since, it is the same bullet being driven at 357Rem Mag velocities.

Posted: 5/12/2002 6:11:08 PM EDT

[#6]

Pro's - The newest gee-whiz gun and good for ammo companies bottom lines. Flatter trajectory for those 100-yard handgun engagements you always hear about.

Cons - Does little that can't be done better with 40S&W. More reliant on hollow-point performance; if it does not expand, then you have much lower efectiveness and greater chance of over-penetration. Poor HP expansion is a significant risk when facing heavy winter clothing (I hear winter in DE is colder than AZ). Also a PITA to reload due to bottle neck case... not reloading = less practice = a bad thing.

Posted: 5/12/2002 6:13:26 PM EDT

[#7]

... also, for those who shoot practical pistol competitions, 40S&W makes MAJOR in IPSC and the bigger bullet is more likely to cut the line on those edgy shots.

Posted: 5/12/2002 6:17:13 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Pro's - The newest gee-whiz gun and good for ammo companies bottom lines. Flatter trajectory for those 100-yard handgun engagements you always hear about.

Cons - Does little that can't be done better with 40S&W. More reliant on hollow-point performance; if it does not expand, then you have much lower efectiveness and greater chance of over-penetration. Poor HP expansion is a significant risk when facing heavy winter clothing (I hear winter in DE is colder than AZ). Also a PITA to reload due to bottle neck case... not reloading = less practice = a bad thing.

I'll second the pain in the ass to reload. You have to lube all the cases before sizing them. Its hard getting the right crimp on this round so the bullet doesn't fall back into the case when chambered. You have to use a flat tipped bullet. You can't use a FMJ and set it at the right dept and have it work in your magazines. I'm not happy when I have to reload this caliber. On the other hand, when everything works this round is a nice flat shooter

Posted: 5/12/2002 6:27:48 PM EDT

[#9]

The .357 sig is a hand cannon. I had a Glock 32C for a while and loved shooting it. The accuracy is outstanding, but it takes a while to get use to the recoil (real sharp). Also, do not get a ported version in this caliber, it is the loudest thing I have ever fired(sold and bought TA01 because of this). I will buy another 32 someday but it won't be ported. A con would be that the ammo is very expensive and can be hard to find in some places.
Bill3508

Posted: 5/12/2002 6:41:47 PM EDT

[#10]

The bottle neck, so some say, actually helps it load better.

Gun writers say that. Firearms designers wouldn't agree. Bottlenecked rounds tend to nosedive in the mag which makes feeding more problematic. Most feed problems start in the mags and straight walled rounds don't have as many problems there. Yes, they can be made to work but not as easily.

Posted: 5/12/2002 7:04:54 PM EDT

[#11]

I carry a 31C at work (issued) and have a 32 for my primary backup. The round is loud and does kick, but thats what the 357magnum did. I feel very confident in its ability to stop a threat. Its is far more accurate that the 40 and is much flatter shooting. Gerogia Arms sells reloads for $150 for 1000 rounds, cant beat that.

Posted: 5/12/2002 9:37:41 PM EDT

[#12]

I keep reading that the ammo is expensive and hard to find. This makes me wonder where you guys are shopping? After checking the catalog, a box of fifty is the same price as most other calibers. Even Sellier & Bellot produces a load (140gr FMJ, $8.99/50).

Also interesting is the comparison with the 40 S&W. The 357 Sig was designed to replicate the performance of the 125gr JHP in .357 Mag as fired from a 4" revolver barrel (approx. 1450 fps). In my own testing, 125gr ammo from Remington and Federal averaged 1380 fps (4.4" barrel) so it's pretty darned close. Depending on the source, the 125gr 357 Mag at that velocity is very highly regarded as a stopper. But you never hear anyone comparing the 40 S&W to potent 357 Mag loadings.

Posted: 5/13/2002 4:19:14 AM EDT

[#13]

I just bought a G33 for a back up while at work.I think this has to be the most bang for your buck compact semiauto.You know as well as I do, that some prefer certain calbers over others.I say that in a compact the size of the G33or 26/27/29/30...357 rules because of the extra fps.

In regards to high ammo...Natchez has Blazer for under $8.00 a box...I don't think you're going to get much cheaper than that.

Posted: 5/13/2002 9:26:18 AM EDT

[#14]

Pro: high vel, and hard hitting.
Con: Expensive ammo.

Posted: 5/13/2002 9:55:00 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Con: Expensive ammo.

Again, what is the basis for that comment? Are you just repeating what you heard or is this the result of market research?

Posted: 5/13/2002 10:02:01 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Also a PITA to reload due to bottle neck case... not reloading = less practice = a bad thing.

I'll second the pain in the ass to reload. You have to lube all the cases before sizing them. Its hard getting the right crimp on this round so the bullet doesn't fall back into the case when chambered. You have to use a flat tipped bullet. You can't use a FMJ and set it at the right dept and have it work in your magazines. I'm not happy when I have to reload this caliber. On the other hand, when everything works this round is a nice flat shooter

I have never reloaded this bottle-neck pistol caliber, but I have reloaded a lots of 223Rem & 308Win. Typically what I do, take a reloaded round, and push down on the bullet on a work bench; the bullet should not go into the case. I use Hornady spray lube, which is a water-soluable wax and spray a whole tray of rounds, and then load the lubed cases into my Lee case loader for automatic feeding. From there it reloads like a straight walled pistol case. Of course there is an extra step of removing the case lube.

Oh forgot to mention, I don't know if the pistol case lenght will grow after being fire and resized like a rifle case; in that case, you will also have trim it down to specs with a case trimmer.

Posted: 5/13/2002 11:04:31 AM EDT

[#17]

I'm not rich by any means but you think $8.00 a box is expensive?WTF?If you can't afford $8.00 every now and then to shoot than you don't need to own a gun!

Posted: 5/13/2002 11:16:17 AM EDT

[#18]

I think the cost difference of ammo is worthy of some consideration. Being able to practice at a reasonable price is a relevant consideration. I have not seen .357 sig available for the same kind of prices that I can buy bulk 9mm and 45 for (although that price for Natches Blazers sounds good). When I go to the range I certainly practice with my 9 and 45 more than my other pistols because I can get 1000's of rounds for those guns inexpensively and without (not to get into this) buying Wolf or S&B.

Posted: 5/13/2002 11:18:51 AM EDT

[#19]

Just to chime in with the obvious:

357sig was expensive at first, the prices have been dropping to much better levels, but, it does remain expensive at several places. Big 5, my local ranges, Wal-Mart (I think).

Posted: 5/13/2002 11:21:52 AM EDT

[#20]

Ghostface,

It would seem that few people read all the responses in a thread and that the ability to find economically priced .357 Sig ammo (not including S&B) is only limited by someone's thoroughness.

Posted: 5/13/2002 11:28:47 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Also interesting is the comparison with the 40 S&W. The 357 Sig was designed to replicate the performance of the 125gr JHP in .357 Mag as fired from a 4" revolver barrel (approx. 1450 fps). In my own testing, 125gr ammo from Remington and Federal averaged 1380 fps (4.4" barrel) so it's pretty darned close. Depending on the source, the 125gr 357 Mag at that velocity is very highly regarded as a stopper. But you never hear anyone comparing the 40 S&W to potent 357 Mag loadings.

Just going to jump in to throw around a few benefits of .40 S&W.

One key thing about .40 is the load selection AND the good performance of the weight range. When you consider the energy & expansion of the 135gr. - 165gr. performance loads you're really not sacrificing that much when compared to the holy grail .357 Mag. 125gr. JHP. The 155gr. & 165gr. will offer better penetration against barriers or deeper penetration which may be needed. .357 Sig performance relies solely on the on the lighter 115gr. - 125gr. loads, the 147gr. load has never been that popular and it doesn't compare to .40 in my opinion.

Here were some of my comparison points between .40 & .357 Sig:

- Both caliber's are very suitable for FL's almost year round warmer weather climate but the .40 would seem to have an edge if you had to face heavy clothing.

- .357 Sig performance contained to lighter weight loads, .40 has a broader multi-role selection. The higher speed & lighter weight of the .357 Sig caused worries about deflection and/or too rapid of energy loss & penetration. (However, I know if you get a solid hit and the bullet performs optimally wound should be devastating.)

- .40 ammo & reloading components are very prevalent, reloading is simpler & cheaper.

- Did not like how loud the .357 Sig was w/out hearing protection.

- At the time I made my choice the .357 Sig was only in a select few models, ammo was expensive then, was not widely stocked. There was also uncertainty about if the caliber would survive.

As for my last point, the caliber will survive but it just doesn't seem like it will achieve the popularity they thought it was going to get. Ammo prices are pretty much just as affordable as .40 except for reloading circumstances. The down side to the .357 Sig is how narrow the load selection is.

Something else to add is that YOU CAN take a std. 9mm and with loads like the Win. 127gr. +P+ Ranger SXT, Federal 124gr. +P+ HydraShoks or Speer 124gr. +P Gold Dots get sound defensive performance.

Posted: 5/13/2002 11:29:52 AM EDT

[#22]

I've been trying for a year and a half to get Bar Sto to start making .357 SIG barrels for the S&W 4006 that I carry at work. A number of our guys want to try it out (federal security unit). They keep promising, but I haven't seen any yet. What I'm seeing here reinforces my yen. Guess I'll go e mail Bar Sto again

Posted: 5/13/2002 12:04:14 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Con: Expensive ammo.

Again, what is the basis for that comment? Are you just repeating what you heard or is this the result of market research?

The best i have found is 180 dollars per 1000 of S&B, I got a case, but Caflin went out of business, I was not able to buy at this price again. so i figure at 250 dollars a case is a bit high for practice rounds. I am just glad a LE friend kicks down couple of hundred of CCI FMJ every couple of month.

Posted: 5/13/2002 12:08:34 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I've been trying for a year and a half to get Bar Sto to start making .357 SIG barrels for the S&W 4006 that I carry at work. A number of our guys want to try it out (federal security unit). They keep promising, but I haven't seen any yet. What I'm seeing here reinforces my yen. Guess I'll go e mail Bar Sto again

Bar-Sto got the contract to produce Vang Comp's Rem 870 barrels, they are pretty busy right now. I am working on Stony to build me a USP expert barrel for 357 SIG, once again, we are friends and he is putting me off. I will be at his shop tomorrow to check out my Rem 870 upgrade, I will see what he said about custom pistol barrels.

Posted: 5/13/2002 12:11:46 PM EDT

[#25]

SMGLee,

$180 per case of S&B? Well you're in luck. Cheaper than Dirt has cases for $178. And as stated by Ghostface, Natchez has Blaser for $7.90 per box of 50. They even have Winchester white box for $10.99.

Posted: 5/13/2002 12:20:16 PM EDT

[#26]

thank you Wadman, I will call cheaper then dirt for a case of SB, I tend to stay away from blazer, since the IDPA shoot I go to don't allow Blazer nor Wolf. Again, thanks for the info.

Posted: 5/15/2002 5:53:07 PM EDT

[#27]

Thanks for all the helpful replies! I still am not sure what one to choose.The .40 sounds good but I want something with a little more punch incase if I ever find myself shooting out of autoglass or thin walls or auto doors.I think the .357Sig might do the job.Maybe I can find a place to try out the Round to see how much it kicks before I buy it.

Posted: 5/15/2002 6:47:59 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Thanks for all the helpful replies! I still am not sure what one to choose.The .40 sounds good but I want something with a little more punch incase if I ever find myself shooting out of autoglass or thin walls or auto doors.I think the .357Sig might do the job.Maybe I can find a place to try out the Round to see how much it kicks before I buy it.

Actually the .40 will do the better job.

Posted: 5/18/2002 5:05:35 PM EDT

[#29]

M4_Aiming_at_U, I may have been in a situation similar to what you may be in now. I'm moving to a state with ccw and wanted a good ccw gun. I decided on a Glock subcompact, but I couldn't decide on caliber. It was between the .40, .45, and .357 sig.

I dropped the .40 and concentrated on the .45 (Glock 30) and .357 sig (Glock 33).

.45acp Pros:
1. Battle tested; nobody is going to take a solid hit and shrug it off.
2. Availability; I could not find a gun store that didn't stock the caliber. Plus, there are a multitude of different .45 loads out there.
3. Overpenetration isn't a concern, especially with hollowpoints.

.45acp Cons:
1. Heavy. Ten rounds of .45acp weighs more than most other handgun calibers.
2. Expensive.

.357sig Pros:

1. Flat trajectory.
2. Packs one hell of a punch and penetration is superior to most rounds.
3. Light; ten rounds weighs significantly less than many other handgun calibers [that are suitable for self-defense].
4. Tapered top ensures positive feeding.

.357sig Cons:

1. Availability can be questionable. Here in WI, it's not stocked everywhere. I couldn't predict how it'd be elsewhere.
2. Expensive; evcen more so than the .45acp.
3. Less different types of .357sig available, especially when compared to the .45acp.
4. The future of the round isn't horrid, but it isn't certain, either.
5. Overpenetration may be a concern, especially depending on the ammunition and bullet type.

I eventually went with the .45, mainly due to concerns over availability and because less types of .357sig were available. It's a solid round, but I'm adopting a "wait-and-see" attitude toward it's longetivity.

Incidentally, my only regret with the .45 is the weight. A fully loaded G-30 and a fully loaded G-21 13 rounder weighs more and is larger in size than a fully loaded G-33 and a fully loaded G-22 magazine.

Mike

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pro's and Con's of the .357sig round?

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