...and she said that the secuirity forces need to qualify on three weapons...M16, M9, and a 9mm...I then informed her that the M9 was a 9mm and then she said she couldn't remember the third one. Any idea what the third one is?

yeah, a mouse, duh. standard air force weapon of choice, point and click!

Could be a shotgun.
I was a MP in the Army "95B" in the early 80's.
We qualified with the M-16 and the 1911 pistol.
But the correction MP's "95C" had to qualify with a shotgun instead of a pistol. I guess prison guards don't carry pistols.

It could be M-60, or M203. We did not use shotguns, The only weapons that were required were pistol and M-16 but that was before the fields were merged.

Quoted: yeah, a mouse, duh. standard air force weapon of choice, point and click!

You display your ignorance.  Nuff said...

My sister in law is in SF. I think you also qualify on the SAW. She's never mentioned shotgun training, but I do recall that she was pissed tht my brother in law got to shoot .50BMG before she did.

you will probably never even SEE a .50BMG in the AF. one of my brothers was AF security forces. M16, M9 and one SAW per section. thats it. and they shoot at miniturized targets 30m away for qualification...No Thanks!!!!

Arndog,
  The AirForce is alright.  But have you ever thought of the Marines?  In the Corps there is an MP Bn that is being stood up and they have specialized training in CQB and Urban Sniping.

 All of the Armed Forces are created equal however there are some more equal than others.  I am a Marine and have never been impressed with the USAF Security Forces.  Heck you can even go for the Embassy Duty if you like.

 Well the bottom line is that it is your decision.

Good Luck


Max

YOU SHOULD REPLIED, "IF I QUALIFY ON ALL THREE CAN I PULL GUARD DUTY ON THE STARGATE IN CHEYENNE MOUNTAIN."

If you become an SP in the Air Force you can also get into Combat Arms Training and Maintanence and work on firearms too. This is what i wanted to do. I remember someone on this board saying that they need people for this.

Good Luck in which ever branch you choose ARndog. The Air Force has some really great people. Keep in mind that if you become an MP/SP you will have to put in some Loooong Hours.

lib

I remember when I visited Edwards AFB and watched my niece take her PFT (Physical Fitness Test) on a ergo bike?

What is that all about.  The Air Force will ride their bikes into battle?

Aim High right?

Don't give me any crap about training smarter not harder.  The bike does not indicate any sort of physical fitness.

Max

Quoted: If you become an SP in the Air Force you can also get into Combat Arms Training and Maintanence and work on firearms too. This is what i wanted to do. I remember someone on this board saying that they need people for this. lib

I was activated as Air Force Combat Arms last September.  We do all range training and weapons armorer duties for the base.

As a SF member, you will qualify with the M9 pistol, and the M16.  With the M16, you will not only have the standard qualification course that everyone in the AF does, but you will also complete the Specialized Rifle Course.  The SRC involves automatic fire drills, night fire, and rifle fire with gas mask.  You will complete the SRC or the AFQC every 6 months as a SF member.  Most SF members also qualify on the 870 shotgun.  If you are selected by your unit to be a grenadier, you will qualify on the M203 grenade launcher.  If you are selected as a machinegunner, you will qualify on either the M60 or the M249 (SAW), or both.

when my brother went through SP school at lackland there were some Marines there. the Corps was running its own school using the AF facilities. that went on for about 5-6 years if i remeber right it was a transitional thing. now the Marine MP school is at Ft. lost-in-the-woods MO using the Army facilities.

Being active duty AF...

Most likely an M-60 or a SAW. It seems to depend on where you are going and what weapons they have.
I have also seen the 50 BMG barrett. EOD (the bomb disposal guys) use it to blow up uneploxed ordnance. They mount it on top of a humvee.

SP's do work twelve hour shifts. I have a lot of respect for the guys standing at the gate, they dont have an easy job. The SP's do some neat stuff, but the job isnt as glamorous as it seems. It really takes the right person I guess.

You may want to look at other career fields. EOD, Pararescue, or Combat Controller come to mind. If you want to be an SP go for it. It just depends on the type of person you are.

No, we dont ride bikes into combat! Its called "cycle ergometry", and it stinks!
The test measures your heart rate over a period of time as you pedal away. They increase the resistance levels during the test.
IMHO they should have a two mile run and be done with it!

I think the AF is a good place to be. Many people will tell you we have the best quality of life out of all the servcies. I tend to agree with that opinion. You will also meet some great people as well.

E-mail me personally if you any questions regarding your enlistment decision.
[email protected]

Quoted: I remember when I visited Edwards AFB and watched my niece take her PFT (Physical Fitness Test) on a ergo bike? What is that all about.  The Air Force will ride their bikes into battle? Aim High right? Don't give me any crap about training smarter not harder.  The bike does not indicate any sort of physical fitness. Max

You're wrong.  The "bike" measures heart rate with a given stress load.  Cardio-vascular fitness is the ability of your system to perform physical activity while maintaining sustainable heart-rates.  This is a valid test of fitness based on proven physiological concepts.  Don't confuse it as a means to attain fitness.  We in the Air Force still have to maintain our fitness like everyone else; run, bike, swim, march, etc.  Do your research beford calling anyting "crap".

Deuce01

You can bash and whine about the Air Force all you want but find me one person who does not appreciate seeing a gunship circling over head and pounding the crap out of an enemy emplacement. If your think your better than the guys in the Air Force here is your mission qualify for flight school, go through UPT, then advanced and see if your good enough and smart enough to fly at mach 2 and pull 9 or 10 g's. ARndog, here is kind of a run down on career's:
SF: top notch people, these guys look sharp getting main gate duty means you got it together
Civil Eng: EOD, base or combat: EOD is really classroom intensive, alot of stuff to learn, general C.E. good ways to learn to a contractor or you can get into one of three combat eng. sqs.
Special Forces: These guys are pretty bad, they do a alot of stuff you never read about and get half the respect. PJ's (so that others may live) no other sf job's id dedicated to getting some else out alive. Combat controllers: set up air fields & call in air strikes will under fire. Check out www.af.mil

Hawkeye66
There is no whining going on, rather just the facts.

1.  The AirForce allows its Airmen to take the PFT on a bike.

2.  The real warriors in the AF are the pilots and air crew not the airmen.  Exception made for the PJs and SF guys.

3.  I am disqualifed for flight due to my vision.  Besides I never wanted to be a pilot.

4.  The AirForce is in the process of Commercialization of "Career Fields". IE Hiring civilian contractors to do the repairs on aircraft at the 2nd and 3rd echelons of repair.  I see this in the advanced electronics field.

5.  The USAF is into troop welfare.  Yes they have better housing, and PX facilities.  However a better warrior said, "The best form of troop welfare is tough realistic training."(Field General Erwin Rommel)

6.  Sure I would be hard pressed to say that I would not appreciate a AC130 Gunship overhead.  It's better than nothing, but I would much rather have my fellow Marines overhead in AH1Z and FA18s dropping bombs danger close near my pos.

7.  There were no PJs around to rescue Capt Scott O Grady.  In fact a Marine Motar Platoon  rescued him.

8.  If you think your good enough, apply for a Infantry Platoon Commander position.  Let's see how well you fair at OCS, TBS then IOC(Infantry Officer Course).  

Hell our pilots go through OCS, The Basic School, then flight school.  Some go through IOC because they want to.

Every branch of service has it's place and duty.  My point is that the Marines have been doing it better and longer with less money and fewer resources.  


Deuce01.  My bad, I guess the AirForce's idea of fitness is cycling.  Will this measure an Airmans ability to carry 2 ammo boxes of 7.62 linked uphill to the airman in a foxhole manning a M240G protecting the airfield?  I don't know.  Maybe your right it's an AirForce thing.

Again it's ARndog's choice of what service.  For you Air Force bubbas stay AirForce.  You do have nice PX's and nice fighters and bombers.



Max

hey maxwell...they have ATVs for ammo resupply <duh>

recently the Af launched the "AEF" "air expeditionary forces" and my brother and my close friends who went air force talk like its the future of warfare, they say to me "contingency operations are the wave of the future...theatre conflict etc" friggin sheep. the Marine Corps has been a self sustainable expeditionary force for over 200yrs. the airforce only launched the AEF concept because the US Senate via that Kassenbaum-Baker committee told the services that if they want to survive in the 21st century they need to emulate the Marine Corps.
 look, you know why Marine Cobra's were sent almost 1000 miles inland to support operation anaconda? because the apache is a piece of shit and cannot handle the desert environment. DvlDog SR. is ex apache test pilot from the 80's and now head of maintenance for a large army division. Pop's tells me it was the same way in desert storm. apaches couldnt meet the op tempo and luckily the army still had some Cobras. this week we landed the first US planes
at the new coalition base in kyrgystan....AEF? nope, US Marines. bottom line is what do you want for your future. college money/tech training/quality of life...US Air Force.  the finest conventional military training on the planet and entrance into an elite warrior Fraternity/travel/crappy quality of life...USMC. both are important and both fill a very neccesary roll.

I started in the Marine Corps (87-90) as a Combat Engineer and went USAF Security Forces (95-present).  There are a lot of good troops in Security Forces.  We at my unit qualify with the M-9, M-870 12 guage, M-16, M-4, S.A.W., M-60, and M-203, all of them.  We dont use bikes for our PT test, we use Army standards.  Not as tough as USMC, but sure as hell isn't a bike!  We in Security Forces are also able to attend Army Ranger school, Jump and Air Assault school as well if there is a billet for any of them.  There are also a lot of us former Marines on the Air Force/Security Forces side.  I'm proud that I served in the Corps...and proud of where I am now.  Bottom line is, any man or woman who serves in any branch of the military should be proud!

roger that milcop!
 my brother tells me he is in the minority in his section because he isnt prior service he's straight air force. and if you get a chance for an Army school my i recomend air assault. thats some good trash  

Roger DvlDog...in SF we go through the academy and the Air Forces version of Infantry School, called Ground Combat Skills.  A piece of cake compared to the Corps.  Air Force Basic Training is alot easier mentally, physically, and discipline wise.  The poor kids that go SF have quite the shock when they show up at Security Forces School....they have some outstanding disciplined, motivated instructors there that whip them into what the rest of the military does to their recruits in Boot Camp, but I still respect all of my fellow servicemen and women for the sacrifices we are all making for this great country of ours.    

I respect my fellow brothers and sisters in all the services.  We're one team fighting a common enemy and we don't need to be putting each other down or minimizing our individual roles we play in our respective services.  But I get pissed when anyone makes disparaging remarks about my Air Force.

Deuce01

we arent making disparaging remarks...we're just making fun of it but seriously... as i stated before each service has an important function and the members of any service deserve respect from their peers. sad though about this whole "air expeditionary force" thing. imitation is the sincerest form of flatery but the irony is: we dont really want to be there either. i mean hell if we had to option to return to the rear after every op id be all over it. one of the best things ive heard about being in the AF was knowing after the mission youd sleep in your own rack not in a bivy like some damned Marine. if you guys are going to push this AEF crap then we have nothing to aspire to when we EAS and look for a better life!

When I joined the AF in 94 and went thru LE training, we qualified on the M9 and the M16A2 at Lackland, and when we went to Fort Dix NJ to train with the Army we had to qualify on the M60. That was when Camp Bullis was closed.