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Posted: 10/15/2020 6:33:07 PM EDT
[#1]
MAWL first, then FP PEQ. I wouldn't buy another civ DBAL again lol
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Posted: 10/15/2020 6:44:04 PM EDT
[#2]
A3 sucks without a secondary illumination source in most situations.
So you have to decide if you’re ok spending $1.8k-$2.5k on an older item that will have zero warranty support along with the possibility it’s stolen/could get confiscated or if you’d rather spend $2.8k-$3k on a new item with a 1 year warranty. FWIW, I prefer the form factor/method of operation of the MAWL. |
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:02:35 PM EDT
[#3]
The DBAL A3 and ATPIAL C aren't bad as long as you don't expect to use it past 100 yards, if you want something with more reach id say go with the MAWL only because it would be the safer purchase and by safer I mean its going to be warranted and you know it wont be stolen
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:14:01 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The DBAL A3 and ATPIAL C aren't bad as long as you don't expect to use it past 100 yards, if you want something with more reach id say go with the MAWL only because it would be the safer purchase and by safer I mean its going to be warranted and you know it wont be stolen Depending on lighting conditions, that 100y could be somewhat optimistic. Mixed lighting conditions/photonic barriers can cut that down substantially. |
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:16:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MAWL first, then FP PEQ. I wouldn't buy another civ DBAL again lol This is the way. |
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:28:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depending on lighting conditions, that 100y could be somewhat optimistic. Mixed lighting conditions/photonic barriers can cut that down substantially. yeah you are probably right, I have only used my ATPIAL C around my house witch is half mile off the main road so the only light is from the moon and stars and I find it usable out to about 150 on a dark night but I'm sure if I was in a neighborhood with street lights and house lights it would probably be more like 50 or less |
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:44:23 PM EDT
[#7]
the civ dbal is really made to be an interior illuminator and maybe effective to 50-75 yard outside in urban environment. Rural you can stretch that to maybe 100-125 meters.
edit- there are plenty of illuminator options out there that you can add to your rifle to get out 300 meters+. Some much further. This is at the cost of weight, clutter, and requirement to practice with it. There are now switch options so it makes these options very easy to "mate" together. I will say a civ laser and a supplemental illuminator will still be much cheaper than an A4 or a mawl. Think a civ dbal with a torch or a luna for long range ir illum. I use an A3 and mate it with torch (going to try out a luna as well), and then use a TAPS sync and have been more than happy hunting with it. |
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:47:41 PM EDT
[#8]
If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:51:03 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL Wow!! That’s double the price of any PEQ I am seeing! |
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Posted: 10/15/2020 7:54:34 PM EDT
[#10]
mawl c1+ gets my vote
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Posted: 10/15/2020 8:03:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL Cheapest NGAL I’ve seen was in the $6k range. 
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Posted: 10/15/2020 10:19:42 PM EDT
[#12]
The ability to go from a near, mid, to a far focus on the fly and having a powerful illuminator the MAWL C1+ is the way to go. If you're looking for a LAM with a powerful illuminator that is @ the same and also matches the A3 price look at the D2
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Posted: 10/15/2020 11:21:32 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cheapest NGAL I’ve seen was in the $6k range. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL Cheapest NGAL I’ve seen was in the $6k range. With no warranty or support and 99% chance it fell off a truck somewhere...  |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 12:02:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you’re going to spend the cash on a forbidden PEQ just spend a little more and get a NGAL Make sure you get the new new when you go NGAL. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 12:02:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With no warranty or support and 99% chance it fell off a truck somewhere... Not all fell off a truck. Many of the early ones were dumped because of reasons. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 4:04:24 AM EDT
[#16]
MAWL or FP A2
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Posted: 10/16/2020 7:22:04 AM EDT
[#17]
I was unhappy with illuminator performance of my A3 for hunting, so I swapped with my bro-in-law for his D2. I’m much happier now, just wish I had a bit more battery capacity. I still run secondary IR illuminator with 18650.
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Posted: 10/16/2020 7:46:41 AM EDT
[#18]
I like the DBAL A3 for the vis override and the green laser. The illuminator does kinda suck, but it's better than the PEQ civ illuminator and the surefire 300v washes out both.
PEQs and DBALs are more 'sturdy', but it's not like I'm going to jump this equipment. The button layout on a MAWL almost demands a 'c clamp' grip, which works for the standing position. For most other rifle shooting positions, the C Clamp isn't useable so you'd need the button pad. Go prone, take your sight picture and reach the end of your handguard like you're operating a MAWL. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 8:17:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like the DBAL A3 for the vis override and the green laser. The illuminator does kinda suck, but it's better than the PEQ civ illuminator and the surefire 300v washes out both. PEQs and DBALs are more 'sturdy', but it's not like I'm going to jump this equipment. The button layout on a MAWL almost demands a 'c clamp' grip, which works for the standing position. For most other rifle shooting positions, the C Clamp isn't useable so you'd need the button pad. Go prone, take your sight picture and reach the end of your handguard like you're operating a MAWL. I will typically use digits over bore/rail to control the muzzle even prone or seated often times. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 9:19:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Of the three it's the MAWL for me, hands down
Add in a ModButton for WL and you have a winning combo 
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Posted: 10/16/2020 9:49:27 AM EDT
[#21]
A MAWL on a M4 at 1200 is easily operated in prone. On a longer rail 13"+ I use an insight dual switch for both A/B ports. Also the MAWL can be mounted at 9, 12, or 300 but it limits you on support side activation without an additional pressure pad.
@Tex-Zen nice rigs as usual. How does using a LAM compare to a thermal for whacking piggies and what distance have you used them out to? |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 9:56:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Mawl.
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Posted: 10/16/2020 12:42:39 PM EDT
[#23]
None of the above
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Posted: 10/16/2020 1:03:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of the above What then? |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 1:41:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Call me weird, but I like the regular PEQ full power more than the MAWL. I own both, the MAWL is cool but I’m not a fan of the illuminator options. Just wasn’t my cup of tea. YMMV
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Posted: 10/16/2020 1:49:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call me weird, but I like the regular PEQ full power more than the MAWL. I own both, the MAWL is cool but I’m not a fan of the illuminator options. Just wasn’t my cup of tea. YMMV Blasphemer!! Ever messed with a Perst? |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 2:46:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What then? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: None of the above What then? Klesh - $400 MAWL - $2500 You could literally buy 6 Kleshs for the price of 1 MAWL. Hell for that matter you could go with a less tactical Sniper Hawg light and come in well under even the Klesh, the 38LRX is just a hair over a hundred bucks. I have the 38LRX and am happy with it (Mostly). I see no reason to spend two thousand 5 hundred dollars on a flashlight unless you just want to show off a bit. Nothing wrong with that! But if your money has a bit of salt around the edge from the sweat it took to earn it, I feel theres better options available. Have a read through this thread @OilfieldTrash78 |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 3:33:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Well, I recently got a DBAL A3.
I could have purchased a MAWL, but that would have meant that other things that I wanted to purchase in the interim would have been delayed. The thing I liked about the A3 is that its visible laser co-aligns with its IR laser making daylight zeroing and zero confirmation a relatively simple affair. I also really like the visible override option that can be used with the UNITY TAPS switch for a nice set-up. The other thing that was a selling point for me was the ability for the rail scales LEAF front sight to be placed on it. I did not even consider the ANTPIAL-C due to the complaints I had read about the civilian version's IR illuminator. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 5:00:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A MAWL on a M4 at 1200 is easily operated in prone. On a longer rail 13"+ I use an insight dual switch for both A/B ports. Also the MAWL can be mounted at 9, 12, or 300 but it limits you on support side activation without an additional pressure pad. @Tex-Zen nice rigs as usual. How does using a LAM compare to a thermal for whacking piggies and what distance have you used them out to?  They each have their uses but at less than 50 yards the LAM lets me get twice as many rounds off safely vs the REAP. I generally knock down twice as many hogs as my main shooting buddy who only uses his Hunter Mk2 but we tend to stalk really close just for the challenge. As the distance gets shorter and/or the hog hysteria makes them bolt all over the place the laser has a better and better advantage in speed over the thermals, but as the distance gets longer the thermal comes out on top By comparison I've been out with @Tmm1270 who only uses a thermal but shoots from a tripod, and that guy is a killing machine. I'd say he easily hit twice as many as hogs or more than I did offhand with the LAM, but we were also generally 50 yards and greater which is where the thermal begins to have the advantage over the laser. To his credit he is easily the most experienced hog hunter I've ever shot with and there is no doubt he has his thermal technique dialed in. Dude is a cold stone pig killer, the rest of us just shoot a few here and there I started off hunting thermal only but later moved to lasers for the experience and I'm glad I did, however, if I could only choose one it would be thermal every time. These days I intentionally have both thermal and laser on my main shtf/hunting guns and tend to use the laser most of the time but like I said where I hunt we tend to be able to get in pretty close. The last one I shot on my buddies ranch I hit at 0430 from a distance of about 12 feet. Perfect wind and no moon let me stalk over a hundred yards right up to him. That was definitely a sweet laser kill but I could have setup and bagged him from much further out with the thermal if I had wanted  |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 6:27:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Ok, now I am between the DBAL-D2 or the MAWL that is more than twice as much...
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Posted: 10/16/2020 6:33:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call me weird, but I like the regular PEQ full power more than the MAWL. I own both, the MAWL is cool but I’m not a fan of the illuminator options. Just wasn’t my cup of tea. YMMV I dislike floody illuminators. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 6:33:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, now I am between the DBAL-D2 or the MAWL that is more than twice as much... D2 is great. Just chunky. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 6:36:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: D2 is great. Just chunky. But also have the price of the MAWL. I am brand new to the lasers and NV, so this would be my first. |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 6:49:53 PM EDT
[#34]
The D2 uses a IR LED illuminator and the MAWL uses a IR laser illuminator, I'm not sure if it matters to you or not but but because its a LED illuminator the D2 is going to have a more visible red glow when directly in front of it (all IR gives off a red glow that is only visible if you are in front of it )
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Posted: 10/16/2020 6:56:43 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 10/16/2020 7:24:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not all fell off a truck. Many of the early ones were dumped because of reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: With no warranty or support and 99% chance it fell off a truck somewhere... Not all fell off a truck. Many of the early ones were dumped because of reasons. Reasons? |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 7:24:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of the three it's the MAWL for me, hands down Add in a ModButton for WL and you have a winning combo https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/73202/20201005_134535-1621327.jpg @tx-zen I have a D2 coming and a 1913 hot button in hand. How is that setup treating you? Specifically does it dictate a C clamp? Would it be difficult/impossible say if I had a m203 underneath?
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Posted: 10/16/2020 7:51:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @tx-zen I have a D2 coming and a 1913 hot button in hand. How is that setup treating you? Specifically does it dictate a C clamp? Would it be difficult/impossible say if I had a m203 underneath? As far as the M203 goes...hell I have no idea but I'm sure you'll figure it out 
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Posted: 10/16/2020 8:31:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like it a lot, but not as much as the ModButton just due to personal preference. I like the downward pressure of the modbutton vs the forward pressure of the hotbutton, but no disrespect to the hotbutton at all. It's a good design by itself As far as the M203 goes...hell I have no idea but I'm sure you'll figure it out But in your configuration it’s easy enough to use the button on the D2 and the hot button? |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 8:40:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But in your configuration it's easy enough to use the button on the D2 and the hot button? |
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Posted: 10/16/2020 10:13:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks They each have their uses but at less than 50 yards the LAM lets me get twice as many rounds off safely vs the REAP. I generally knock down twice as many hogs as my main shooting buddy who only uses his Hunter Mk2 but we tend to stalk really close just for the challenge. As the distance gets shorter and/or the hog hysteria makes them bolt all over the place the laser has a better and better advantage in speed over the thermals, but as the distance gets longer the thermal comes out on top By comparison I've been out with @Tmm1270 who only uses a thermal but shoots from a tripod, and that guy is a killing machine. I'd say he easily hit twice as many as hogs or more than I did offhand with the LAM, but we were also generally 50 yards and greater which is where the thermal begins to have the advantage over the laser. To his credit he is easily the most experienced hog hunter I've ever shot with and there is no doubt he has his thermal technique dialed in. Dude is a cold stone pig killer, the rest of us just shoot a few here and there I started off hunting thermal only but later moved to lasers for the experience and I'm glad I did, however, if I could only choose one it would be thermal every time. These days I intentionally have both thermal and laser on my main shtf/hunting guns and tend to use the laser most of the time but like I said where I hunt we tend to be able to get in pretty close. The last one I shot on my buddies ranch I hit at 0430 from a distance of about 12 feet. Perfect wind and no moon let me stalk over a hundred yards right up to him. That was definitely a sweet laser kill but I could have setup and bagged him from much further out with the thermal if I had wanted https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/73202/20200919_191633-1599118.jpg @Tex-Zen, Thanks for the info. How do you zero your IR laser parallel or intersecting at a certain distance? I'm trying to see if I really need to buy a thermal right now vs just trying what I have now. |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 10:58:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reasons? Think he meant raisins |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 10:58:56 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Tex-Zen, Thanks for the info. How do you zero your IR laser parallel or intersecting at a certain distance? I'm trying to see if I really need to buy a thermal right now vs just trying what I have now. |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 11:41:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do the poor mans method of zeroing to the optic at the longest distance I can see the laser, which should be an intersecting zero, but then I move it 1 or 2 clicks to the side of the rifle the laser emitter is on. That gives me about a 1 inch offset at 100 yards which is fine for me I dont add the clicks. I figure if I got it EXACTLY right at 300ish then between there and point blank the futhest i can be off is the distance between the laser emitter and the muzzle. And elevation is the same as the day optic zero. |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 11:53:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Telluric Group has targets for zeroing LAMs with mechanical offset.
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Posted: 10/17/2020 4:47:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Mawl is superior to dbal-a3 by far
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Posted: 10/17/2020 6:12:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The D2 uses a IR LED illuminator and the MAWL uses a IR laser illuminator, I'm not sure if it matters to you or not but but because its a LED illuminator the D2 is going to have a more visible red glow when directly in front of it (all IR gives off a red glow that is only visible if you are in front of it ) This helps Green.L 37mm IR 950 Glass Infrared X-Ray Filter 950nm IR Filter for Camera Lens Digital DSLR SLR https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTS7SKM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_i_nT2IFbYDBGFK5 |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 7:25:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This helps Green.L 37mm IR 950 Glass Infrared X-Ray Filter 950nm IR Filter for Camera Lens Digital DSLR SLR https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RTS7SKM/ref=cm_sw_r_em_api_i_nT2IFbYDBGFK5 If you installed it, how did it affect it’s performance? |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 9:48:08 PM EDT
[#49]
 FYI these are my personally owned MAWLs |
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Posted: 10/17/2020 9:59:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryAre they on the way? @TNVC_Sam |
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