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Posted: 10/3/2020 9:54:59 AM EDT
[#1]
What do you think, darling? Should I hate WP?
You don't even know WP. Yes, but there's just something about it. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... old TVs. No. I'm sure of it, I hate WP.  Ok on a serious note I did get some more time behind the Elbit WP. With very little ambient light it's a wash, anything thing from star light to full moon I take GP over WP everytime. I messed with the gain a lot this time and prefer the gain turned way down on the WP. Moon was behind clouds for the most part and we were in relatively think wooded area. |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 10:59:24 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you think, darling? Should I hate WP? You don't even know WP. Yes, but there's just something about it. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... old TVs.No. I'm sure of it, I hate WP. Yes, 100% reminds me of old TV’s. Nothing better than walking around in a world that looks like a old black and white |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 11:33:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks to all for contributions to this thread.
Sgd, NV newb embarking on first search Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m a CPT and prefer green  Congratulations in order. Such a distinction should make you CPT(P). |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 5:15:44 PM EDT
[#4]
I’ve got some L3 filmless green RNVGs on the way. This thread made me more confident in my choice
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Posted: 10/3/2020 6:13:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What do you think, darling? Should I hate WP? You don't even know WP. Yes, but there's just something about it. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... old TVs. No. I'm sure of it, I hate WP. Ok on a serious note I did get some more time behind the Elbit WP. With very little ambient light it's a wash, anything thing from star light to full moon I take GP over WP everytime. I messed with the gain a lot this time and prefer the gain turned way down on the WP. Moon was behind clouds for the most part and we were in relatively think wooded area. I agree 1000% and run all my WP units that way as well. |
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Posted: 10/4/2020 5:28:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Setup a short "trail shoot" to stretch capabilities without IR. 3 targets from 10-20yards
    Middle 2 are the same target. You can barely see it from the hill at 20yards or so and again up close a bit under 10yards. I'll update pics at night with ir then I'll do pics with no ir. Tubes will be: ITT F9800TG L3 M890AV Elbit F9415M L3 UG-SA-C00-1597 |
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Posted: 10/4/2020 7:11:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Setup a short "trail shoot" to stretch capabilities without IR. 3 targets from 10-20yards https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174257-1620199.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174310-1620200.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174331-1620201.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_174440-1620203.jpg Middle 2 are the same target. You can barely see it from the hill at 20yards or so and again up close a bit under 10yards. I'll update pics at night with ir then I'll do pics with no ir. Tubes will be: ITT F9800TG L3 M890AV Elbit F9415M L3 UG-SA-C00-1597 Nice looking forward to it ETA: here's an L3 M890 focus is set to infinity so it's not super sharp on the Rhino but these tubes are great. Light is from the moon just coming up.  |
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Posted: 10/4/2020 7:20:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice looking forward to it ETA: here's an L3 M890 focus is set to infinity so it's not super sharp on the Rhino but these tubes are great. Light is from the moon just coming up. https://i.ibb.co/THzPCzR/E3-F8-F065-9-E67-473-E-A0-C4-99-CD3-AB92989.jpg That's in a -14 right? After talking to ya I'll do this with each target before the night pics. 
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Posted: 10/4/2020 7:50:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's in a -14 right? After talking to ya I'll do this with each target before the night pics. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201004_184500-1620347.jpg Yessir, in a proper -14 (Carson glass)  Try to get the pics before the moon is up and after. |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 3:48:13 PM EDT
[#10]
Thought I'd kick this thread back up to the top. I thought I'd share this while we're waiting for GP unfilmed pics.
We see a lot that FOM isn't the be all end all etc. but it's still pretty damn important especially a high SNR. Aviation going the high FOM route also says a lot. Interestingly, the USAF is ordering both GP and WP unfilmed and ASU-NVG doesn't call out mfg or whether the tubes are unfilmed or filmed which leads me to think they're using Elbit. There's also a link to a white paper on WP on the ASU-NVG page. ASU-NVG 2376 FOM minimum WP USAF high FOM unfilmed WP & GP |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 4:17:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Here's one for now, I need to get better pictures. Also was waiting on a more overcast night. Picture was compressed to fit file size.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 4:25:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's one for now, I need to get better pictures. Also was waiting on a more overcast night. Picture was compressed to fit file size. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/160877/20201007_140858_compress60_jpg-1624994.JPG I do have to say, seeing green in a DTNVG is weird. |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 5:03:37 PM EDT
[#13]
...
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Posted: 10/7/2020 6:07:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's one for now, I need to get better pictures. Also was waiting on a more overcast night. Picture was compressed to fit file size. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/160877/20201007_140858_compress60_jpg-1624994.JPG Looks clean! What are your specs? |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 6:15:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Ill be grabbing some tonight as well!
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Posted: 10/7/2020 6:17:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Purple is better.
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Posted: 10/7/2020 6:20:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks clean! What are your specs? 0.2/0.3 ebi 64lpmm 35.8/35.2 SN 0.8/0.7halo 64037/60281 gain 2215/2522 PCR Thanks man. I'm going to get some more, not a real good picture. When are yours getting posted up? I'll also say this, with my eyes GP looks a decent amount more green in pictures then it does to me in person. That was my wife's first comment after trying them as well. Kinda odd, I figured it was just me. |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 7:08:25 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 0.2/0.3 ebi 64lpmm 35.8/35.2 SN 0.8/0.7halo 64037/60281 gain 2215/2522 PCR Thanks man. I'm going to get some more, not a real good picture. When are yours getting posted up? I'll also say this, with my eyes GP looks a decent amount more green in pictures then it does to me in person. That was my wife's first comment after trying them as well. Kinda odd, I figured it was just me. Those are fantastic! About as good as you could ask for matched tubes. Edit I guess the PC could be closer, don't see it being an issue though. Yeah the only time GP looks as green as the pictures online are when I go from WP to GP lol I'll try to get some tonight. My $200 phone doesn't do well in low light. Here is what the blems look like. Don't mind the little squigglys, those are not blems. It's been in the shoebox on for about 20hrs and is improving!  10160UG anvis glass  Elbit WP 14 glass  ITT 9800 anvis glass  M890 14 glass  These were all taken within 5 min of each other and before the moon was up. The 9800s were struggling. |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 7:44:05 PM EDT
[#19]
really holding out hope for those uniflmed greens. If you're able to fix them, I'm gonna be jealous!
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Posted: 10/7/2020 8:09:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: really holding out hope for those uniflmed greens. If you're able to fix them, I'm gonna be jealous! I'm pretty optimistic seeing a noticable improvement already! @Blackhalo Did you just order and get those specs or specify them? |
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Posted: 10/7/2020 9:22:30 PM EDT
[#21]
What's broken with the unfilmed green tubes?
Does someone have a source for used unfilmed green tubes? As I have what seems to be an OMNI 7 super tube, green Photonis Intens, and green Photonis ECHO tube. All I need is an unfilmed green tube to complete my collection and make a super fun comparison! |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 7:22:31 AM EDT
[#22]
Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs
57 res 35.3 SNR 0.4 EBI 0.9 Halo 2257 PCS 63296 gain In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out.      
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Posted: 10/8/2020 8:53:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs 57 res 35.3 SNR 0.4 EBI 0.9 Halo 2257 PCS 63296 gain In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out. https://i.imgur.com/hfCXdWF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JapYzB8.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hg5Zdwj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MruBaaq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KyMSfJl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3oLbHmx.jpg Awesome pics, you post good Nod pics lol You should throw up some WP filmless to compare! |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 9:30:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Fuck now i want filmless greenies lol. Always enjoyed green and white, not enough time on white to say 100% i would take over green yet. Green has been soft on the eyes for the long nights in the woods so far.
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Posted: 10/8/2020 9:56:58 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Awesome pics, you post good Nod pics lol You should throw up some WP filmless to compare! Haha I'll throw those pics up in my big WP comparison thread. I do have a high spec 14 coming from TNVC at some point - so as soon as that comes in maybe I'll be able to compare. Not gonna lie I'll probably end up selling the DTNVGs for what I got them for after that happens. Duals are nice and all, but I really do prefer a mono for weight and ease of use |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 11:16:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha I'll throw those pics up in my big WP comparison thread. I do have a high spec 14 coming from TNVC at some point - so as soon as that comes in maybe I'll be able to compare. Not gonna lie I'll probably end up selling the DTNVGs for what I got them for after that happens. Duals are nice and all, but I really do prefer a mono for weight and ease of use @Synyster06Gates I can't tell from the pics. Is there any difference in color between unfilmed and filmed (L3)? ! ETA: They look great! |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 11:38:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs 57 res 35.3 SNR 0.4 EBI 0.9 Halo 2257 PCS 63296 gain In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out. And THANK YOU for taking the time. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 11:42:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Synyster06Gates I can't tell from the pics. Is there any difference in color between unfilmed and filmed (L3)? ! ETA: They look great! I'd say the filmless is a warmer tone, but the colors are pretty similar overall. They're both pretty good units! Shows that's 57 resolution is nothing to worry about on a helmet mounted setup. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 11:56:17 AM EDT
[#29]
You take amazing pictures sir
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Posted: 10/8/2020 12:49:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs 57 res 35.3 SNR 0.4 EBI 0.9 Halo 2257 PCS 63296 gain In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out. https://i.imgur.com/hfCXdWF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JapYzB8.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hg5Zdwj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MruBaaq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KyMSfJl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3oLbHmx.jpg What are you using to take those photos? If that's a cell phone, that's impressive |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 12:50:39 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are you using to take those photos? If that's a cell phone, that's impressive Yes sir, cell phone. OnePlus 8 Pro It's got a pro shooting mode that allows me to take pictures in RAW for postprocessing, I can lock the WB, focus, exposure, shutter speed, etc as needed. That said, I just left it on auto last night. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 5:20:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha I'll throw those pics up in my big WP comparison thread. I do have a high spec 14 coming from TNVC at some point - so as soon as that comes in maybe I'll be able to compare. Not gonna lie I'll probably end up selling the DTNVGs for what I got them for after that happens. Duals are nice and all, but I really do prefer a mono for weight and ease of use What is "high spec"? Haha |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 6:12:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is "high spec"? Haha 72 res, 35+ SNR, and sub 0.5 halo and EBI I think was what I requested. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 10:18:16 PM EDT
[#34]
@will-1
Ok man these unfilmed tubes are growing on me. Messing around on my Pioneer with no IR and it's nice. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 10:45:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @will-1 Ok man these unfilmed tubes are growing on me. Messing around on my Pioneer with no IR and it's nice. Any improvement with the shoe box trick? |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 11:09:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any improvement with the shoe box trick? Maybe, it's hard to tell. 48 hours in at this point. They are easy to miss if you're not looking for them. It's also easy to use the bottom 2/3s of the tube and keep the blems in your peripheral. They fade a lot in higher light. |
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Posted: 10/11/2020 9:38:48 AM EDT
[#37]
  Little better after about 100hrs in the shoebox. They really disappear well for the size they are. |
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Posted: 10/11/2020 10:44:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201011_093436-1630426.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201011_093511-1630428.jpg Little better after about 100hrs in the shoebox. They really disappear well for the size they are. Oh man, yeah those have definitely faded. In case anyone is wondering what they used to look like:  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/12/2020 12:48:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh man, yeah those have definitely faded. In case anyone is wondering what they used to look like: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/460535/D31B5062-10B7-457E-B3E0-A07B0A1CFCA5_jpe-1630486.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/460535/710AC093-47AE-4720-9409-8DC239206251_jpe-1630488.JPG I'm happy with them! The cosmetics are fantastic. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 5:19:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Photonis Intens last night. It is definitely darker than gen 3 tubes but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.(It can be at times) I like the color over Elbits WP.
  The screen cosmetics are better than any thin filmed unit I've looked through. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 5:32:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Photonis Intens last night. It is definitely darker than gen 3 tubes but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.(It can be at times) I like the color over Elbits WP. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161729-1665830.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161810-1665831.jpg So this begs the question - Do you still think green is better?
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Posted: 11/2/2020 5:36:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So this begs the question - Do you still think green is better? Ha this may start to sway me lol. I definitely prefer this Intens over an Elbit. It's very easy on the eyes and produces a great image. The premium that L3s WP units are fetching will keep me away for now. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 6:29:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha this may start to sway me lol. I definitely prefer this Intens over an Elbit. It's very easy on the eyes and produces a great image. The premium that L3s WP units are fetching will keep me away for now. In that case, you'll really dig L3H unfilmed WP. It's a better color by far of all three. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 7:36:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are a few shots of my filmless 1701 GP DTNVGs 57 res 35.3 SNR 0.4 EBI 0.9 Halo 2257 PCS 63296 gain In the long distance shot, the cow is about 350 yards out. https://i.imgur.com/hfCXdWF.jpg https://i.imgur.com/JapYzB8.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Hg5Zdwj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/MruBaaq.jpg https://i.imgur.com/KyMSfJl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3oLbHmx.jpg  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 7:38:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Photonis Intens last night. It is definitely darker than gen 3 tubes but that's not necessarily a bad thing IMO.(It can be at times) I like the color over Elbits WP. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161729-1665830.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/272833/20201102_161810-1665831.jpg The screen cosmetics are better than any thin filmed unit I've looked through. I “semi famously” had a set of those. They were stunning. I wish I could play with a set of high spec UF in any color. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 8:08:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha this may start to sway me lol. I definitely prefer this Intens over an Elbit. It's very easy on the eyes and produces a great image. The premium that L3s WP units are fetching will keep me away for now. You could probably get an Echo and run the Intens on your dominant eye. The color should be the same. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 8:17:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could probably get an Echo and run the Intens on your dominant eye. The color should be the same. Hmm, that'd probably work. I'm blown away at how clean the image is. With a full moon it definitely has a better image than any of my gen 3 stuff. The unfilmed GP is doing too good a job with a full moon. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 8:31:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm, that'd probably work. I'm blown away at how clean the image is. With a full moon it definitely has a better image than any of my gen 3 stuff. The unfilmed GP is doing too good a job with a full moon. I was pleasantly surprised with the Echo I had. The only thing I didn't like it about it was the darker image vs gen 3 but that was before I had anvis objectives, so maybe I'd feel differently now, I don't know. The luminance gain of the tube was 9379, which is probably lower than your Intens, so if you were to do it I'd look for one with a number closer to yours. Try to get a similar output brightness too. The other specs were solid at 67 res & 31 SNR. |
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Posted: 11/2/2020 8:36:10 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was pleasantly surprised with the Echo I had. The only thing I didn't like it about it was the darker image vs gen 3 but that was before I had anvis objectives, so maybe I'd feel differently now, I don't know. The luminance gain of the tube was 9379, which is probably lower than your Intens, so if you were to do it I'd look for one with a number closer to yours. Try to get a similar output brightness too. The other specs were solid at 67 res & 31 SNR. Yep it is Luminance gain 11920 SNR 30.3 Res 69 Not sure what the halo is but it's really small. Image alignment .2 Useful cathode diameter > 17.5 These both measure in mm |
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Posted: 11/15/2020 6:48:05 PM EDT
[#50]
I now have had time behind thin filmed GP, thin filmed WP, filmless GP, filmless WP, and Photonis Intens. GP filmless is my favorite but any will do the job.
I'd like to have manual gain on everything although GP IMO doesn't need it as much as WP. The slightly darker Intens never seems too bright and it shows with little scintillation. Manual gain is a must have in both WP Elbit thin filmed and WP L3 filmless. |
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