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Posted: 5/17/2020 10:37:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: So do you guys with night vision pay attention to the moon phase when you go out to play? I just picked up a moon phase calendar and was impressed with it. I have never really paid much attention to the phases of the moon. Can you tell an appreciable difference when under NODS given the different phases of the moon? Does it affect your decision making for how much supplemental IR you take along? The Moon makes a HUGE difference to how well your NV performs. A great website that shows the phases plus the hourly position of the Moon is Moongiant. It’s great for planning outings. The brightness will affect how well your IR works, so yes it can, although I usually bring all the toys anyways. On mobiles you’ll need to turn your phone sideways to see the hourly position. Moon Giant |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 10:48:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Lol, you beat me to the draw, i meant to delete and repost this in the more appropriate forum., thanks for the reply and link. I meant to post this in the survival forum since it didn’t seem very technical.
But the link is awesome, very useful site. Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 10:56:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Lol.
I’d use the site to plan big outings in advance. I love no Moon nights but depending on what you’re doing sometimes it’s better to have some Moon high in the sky. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 1:28:27 PM EDT
[#4]
@Kits4
I think this would have probably been one of the more relevant threads in this forum compared to the same six questions that get asked constantly, I would encourage you to bring it back or re-start it.  ~Augee |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 1:55:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TNVC_Augee: @Kits4 I think this would have probably been one of the more relevant threads in this forum compared to the same six questions that get asked constantly, I would encourage you to bring it back or re-start it. ~Augee +1 Another thing to add about Moon position. Depending on what you're doing (in my case hiking/navigating terrain BFE) if the Moon is low in the sky and in the direction you are heading, it can seriously interfere with your NV. The ABC (automatic brightness control) will dim the image and make it difficult to see in the Moon's direction. It could also potentially harm your tube if you're facing the Moon too long in the same position depending on the size/brightness. You'll need a good IR light to better see in the Moon's direction. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 3:18:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Pertaining to tactical operations I know we absolutely took the Ambient illumination (Moon Phase) into account for planning military ops when I was in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Its something that prehistoric man had to deal with and we still deal with today, its primal, but it matters. I know nowadays when I hunt pigs I can't get away with as much in certain situations as I can when its West Virginia Coal mine Dark outside. The moon, the wind, and noise abatement are things I am consistently thinking about when hunting. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 3:40:44 PM EDT
[#7]
I'd bet almost all new users are shocked/disappointed when they first get their device (no matter the tube/specs) and take it out BFE for the first time on a dark no Moon night, lol.
1/2 Moon high in the sky with light-to-moderate cloud cover is about perfect for messing around IMO. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 5:56:01 PM EDT
[#8]
First thing I check when we’re scheduling a night shoot is moon phase as well as rise and set.
It doesn’t really change my loadout any, but could have an operations impact depending on what we are doing. CW FOToo was under full moon last year, and I still couldn’t see the farthest targets. This year it will be dark AF.  ETA: quarter moon or so is my favorite. It’s dark enough that you really need nods and the critters can’t see you, but there’s plenty of photons bouncing around for NV to scoop up. |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 8:11:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ETA: quarter moon or so is my favorite. It's dark enough that you really need nods and the critters can't see you, but there's plenty of photons bouncing around for NV to scoop up. Quote HistoryQuoted: ETA: quarter moon or so is my favorite. It's dark enough that you really need nods and the critters can't see you, but there's plenty of photons bouncing around for NV to scoop up. Quoted:I'd bet almost all new users are shocked/disappointed when they first get their device (no matter the tube/specs) and take it out BFE for the first time on a dark no Moon night, lol. Most tubes these days look really good under moonlight. Not so much when it goes away |
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Posted: 5/19/2020 8:16:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Its back
 thanks to contributors. A serious wealth of knowledge in this forum.
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Posted: 5/19/2020 10:56:12 PM EDT
[#11]
I try to plan around a full moon or near full moon when possible but ultimately, when I've got a chance to go out at night (usually pig hunting) ill go out regardless of moon phase. I was definitely spoiled, though, as the first couple nights I used my 14 it was a full or nearly full moon, the next time I went out it was cloudy with nearly no moon and it was a massive difference. I was expecting that L3 filmless white phos to be something it wasn't. I have an X300V mounted to my helmet that I fire up on really dark nights and it works really well but nothing beats a cool, dry, clear night and about 90% or better moon. Filmless white phos works great in low light but looks absolutely insane under a full moon and clear skies.
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Posted: 5/19/2020 11:12:27 PM EDT
[#12]
If you are hunting with a lot of moon light perpendicular movement seems to get you in trouble a lot quicker than moving straight towards an animal. Something to think about when planning a stalk and playing the wind.
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Posted: 5/20/2020 7:38:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Not only are phases of the moon important, but a variety of other environmental conditions as well.
Temperature, humidity, moisture (rain/fog/snow, etc) can all affect the performance of image intensification devices. For example, last fall we were running a Nightfighter 101 class. It was near 0% illum, 40*, raining, little wind, and the conditions were creating an inversion layer at about 6-8ft--smoke from the gunfire was just hanging there. It was about the worst conditions possible for night vision to work--or not work. We had students trying to hit large steel targets--we could not see them that well, and were relying on the "splash" from the lasers to let us know that the laser was on steel. The next day, before the class resumed, we looked at the targets--they were 62m away. The students felt horrible, but it brought up a great point. Night vision technology is not the "end all" answer in some conditions. I have learned that for effective night fighting, more attention to the range of environmental conditions is important. Now I am not saying that we should all become SOWTs, but understanding the environmental effects on, say image intensification, might lead to use of other technology (such as thermal, etc) and also give you insight to the conditions and tools (and strengths/weaknesses) your opponent may use/face. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 8:01:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By billpete: Not only are phases of the moon important, but a variety of other environmental conditions as well. Temperature, humidity, moisture (rain/fog/snow, etc) can all affect the performance of image intensification devices. For example, last fall we were running a Nightfighter 101 class. It was near 0% illum, 40*, raining, little wind, and the conditions were creating an inversion layer at about 6-8ft--smoke from the gunfire was just hanging there. It was about the worst conditions possible for night vision to work--or not work. We had students trying to hit large steel targets--we could not see them that well, and were relying on the "splash" from the lasers to let us know that the laser was on steel. The next day, before the class resumed, we looked at the targets--they were 62m away. The students felt horrible, but it brought up a great point. Night vision technology is not the "end all" answer in some conditions. I have learned that for effective night fighting, more attention to the range of environmental conditions is important. Now I am not saying that we should all become SOWTs, but understanding the environmental effects on, say image intensification, might lead to use of other technology (such as thermal, etc) and also give you insight to the conditions and tools (and strengths/weaknesses) your opponent may use/face. SOWT’s are no more, they’re SR (Special reconnaissance) now. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:05:10 AM EDT
[#15]
It's one of those things where before you get night vision you assume the moon is up most of the time. Once you start paying attention you realize the moon isn't up nearly as much as you thought. For whatever reason the vast majority of the time I'm out hog hunting there is no moon. It's going to be a really dark weekend...
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:44:54 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DoubleHaul: It's one of those things where before you get night vision you assume the moon is up most of the time. Once you start paying attention you realize the moon isn't up nearly as much as you thought. For whatever reason the vast majority of the time I'm out hog hunting there is no moon. It's going to be a really dark weekend... Yeah, i nver really paid much attention to it until recently. One glance at a moon phase calendar will change your view on things.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:47:37 AM EDT
[#17]
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/099112667X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
“The Moon Almanac is an annual companion title for The Moon Calendar (published annually by The Experiment Publishing). Detailed information covers the phases of the Moon, with specific times for every U.S. time zones. Other information includes full moon rise and set times for major U.S. cities, times and dates of lunar apogees and perigees, location on the horizon for full moon rise for major U.S. cities, greatest heigth above the horizon for every full moon, background and guide for spotting the earliest first crescent moons, planets and major stars visible near the moon, times and dates of lunar and solar eclipses, traditional names of the full moons, lunar calendars and holidays, dates for high tides, and additional information. A special feature is "Moon Light in 2020," a chart graphically illustrating the hours of nighttime illumination from the Moon”  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 9:58:58 AM EDT
[#18]
Haven't gotten a new phone book in years but years and years ago they used to have a chart in them for this along with a lot of other useful stuff like sun down and sun set times.
Moon phase and position is important to movement and finding targets. At last year's Midnight Rendezvous we did a jungle lane in mixed terrain, some near an semi open area and the rest in thick woods. Some camoflaged targets that were set out during the day as "gimmes" in relatively open areas with a little bit of grass where passed by early in the night by most students, even when we would direct them to that exact patch of area most had a hard time spotting. Later in the night (each student went through the lane individually), the moon was higher and that same target was illuminated like it was on stage- no one missed it. Moral of the story, what was concealment earlier in the night may not be concealment later in the night. Just like during the day how movement of the sun affects your camoflage. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:03:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By will-1: I'd bet almost all new users are shocked/disappointed when they first get their device (no matter the tube/specs) and take it out BFE for the first time on a dark no Moon night, lol. 1/2 Moon high in the sky with light-to-moderate cloud cover is about perfect for messing around IMO. For me it was kind of the opposite. Full moon scenarios were less impressive to me at first because it was bright and you could see fine without NODs. When it was no moon and over cast and you could hardly see your hand in front of your face was when I was most impressed. No moon is still my favorite time to go out.
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:09:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By will-1: I'd bet almost all new users are shocked/disappointed when they first get their device (no matter the tube/specs) and take it out BFE for the first time on a dark no Moon night, lol. 1/2 Moon high in the sky with light-to-moderate cloud cover is about perfect for messing around IMO. I can attest to that. Thought my tubes were the shit using them in my neighborhood (lots of landscaping lights, and close to an a major airport). I then went out about 45 miles to a field and a cloudy night and very little artificial light. I thought my RNVGs were broken. Nope. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 10:22:10 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cansiae1nundatio: For me it was kind of the opposite. Full moon scenarios were less impressive to me at first because it was bright and you could see fine without NODs. When it was no moon and over cast and you could hardly see your hand in front of your face was when I was most impressed. No moon is still my favorite time to go out. Same here. I came up 30 years ago not having NODS in the field, learning to use the Mark I eyeball, shoot with irons and no illumination, etc. I thank God for all those guys that taught us back in the day- old skewl SF Vietnam vets that knew how to patrol and operate at night without tech. Later when we got PVS5's we thought it was the shizzle, grainy as hell, damn near as dark as outside, LOL. Now when it's crappy conditions under NODS it's no bother, use the shadows, avoid the extra IR where you can and learn to work with what you got. The biggest thing IMO is people are not used to be outside at night any more. It's interesting to see the psyche getting amped up in a lot of people that were doing just fine on the range in daylight, but once it gets dark everything changes. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 11:54:31 AM EDT
[#22]
100% agree with getting used to the dark unaided. Not just NV but don't use vis light either. It's good practice in different lighting conditions.
Something to try (which is fun as hell IMO) is to have one person (or persons) unaided and the other using NV. Start from a distance away and under NV see how close you can get to them and/or within observation view under without getting busted. Usually if you get busted it'll be from noise and they'll get your approximate position. If they start using white light to find you then you'll need to move which may get you more busted. It's better to move when they're moving to mask your noise. It's a fun game. Obviously it's a lot harder in certain terrain. Practicing noise discipline/walking as quietly as possible is important. To do it right you have to move painfully slow. This is where a single -14 has an advantage because it can be pretty magical IMO once you dial in the right gain level to match your unaided eye for the ambient lighting conditions. You can see the ground/obstacles better. For me, the gain usually had to be pretty low. Another thing I like to do is split between nods up and down. I have a circular road a little over 1 mile on my property I walk the dog on at night. Sometimes I'll start off nods up (TBH mainly to enjoy the stars lol) and about 1/2 way go nods down. When your eyes are acclimated to the dark you can see surprisingly better than most people probably think and it's nice friendly reminder how awesome your NV is when you go nods down. No Moon nights are my favorite also. I like it spooky dark, lol. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 12:03:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thank God for all those guys that taught us back in the day- old skewl SF Vietnam vets that knew how to patrol and operate at night without tech. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 12:57:47 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By will-1: 100% agree with getting used to the dark unaided. Not just NV but don't use vis light either. It's good practice in different lighting conditions. Something to try (which is fun as hell IMO) is to have one person (or persons) unaided and the other using NV. Start from a distance away and under NV see how close you can get to them and/or within observation view under without getting busted. Usually if you get busted it'll be from noise and they'll get your approximate position. If they start using white light to find you then you'll need to move which may get you more busted. It's better to move when they're moving to mask your noise. It's a fun game. Obviously it's a lot harder in certain terrain. Practicing noise discipline/walking as quietly as possible is important. To do it right you have to move painfully slow. This is where a single -14 has an advantage because it can be pretty magical IMO once you dial in the right gain level to match your unaided eye for the ambient lighting conditions. You can see the ground/obstacles better. For me, the gain usually had to be pretty low. Another thing I like to do is split between nods up and down. I have a circular road a little over 1 mile on my property I walk the dog on at night. Sometimes I'll start off nods up (TBH mainly to enjoy the stars lol) and about 1/2 way go nods down. When your eyes are acclimated to the dark you can see surprisingly better than most people probably think and it's nice friendly reminder how awesome your NV is when you go nods down. No Moon nights are my favorite also. I like it spooky dark, lol. We do that quite a bit. It’s really fun to see how close you can get. Sometimes we will have goals to achieve while staying undirected and someone searching with WL. |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 1:01:29 PM EDT
[#25]
This is the one my wife picked on amazon and lets me hang in the kitchen.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2020 2:18:08 PM EDT
[#26]
There are also apps like “the moon” that are easy to use
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Posted: 5/21/2020 10:53:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kits4: This is the one my wife picked on amazon and lets me hang in the kitchen.https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/462616/6C12DEE9-6CCC-4480-B518-271B09FF5173_jpe-1424992.JPG I'm so confused. You have posted two charts purporting to show the same thing, yet they show completely different things. Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/21/2020 2:34:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm so confused. You have posted two charts purporting to show the same thing, yet they show completely different things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462616/6C12DEE9-6CCC-4480-B518-271B09FF5173_jpe-1424992.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462616/74ABC8D0-EE45-48A4-8D5E-0D85FC1F8D48_jpe-1424789.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Originally Posted By Kits4: This is the one my wife picked on amazon and lets me hang in the kitchen.https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/462616/6C12DEE9-6CCC-4480-B518-271B09FF5173_jpe-1424992.JPG I'm so confused. You have posted two charts purporting to show the same thing, yet they show completely different things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462616/6C12DEE9-6CCC-4480-B518-271B09FF5173_jpe-1424992.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/462616/74ABC8D0-EE45-48A4-8D5E-0D85FC1F8D48_jpe-1424789.JPG Where do I imply any relationship between these images? you have joined together two pictures from two separate posts. I ordered some black trimmed ones for the shop, and a smaller one with girl colors for the kitchen. Each post stands alone. |
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Posted: 5/21/2020 2:59:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do I imply any relationship between these images? you have joined together two pictures from two separate posts. I ordered some black trimmed ones for the shop, and a smaller one with girl colors for the kitchen. Each post stands alone. I think he's referring to the fact that the data for each is almost completely opposite... I have the large version of the vertically oriented one posted next to my desk, and it shows (e.g.) this month's full moon was on the 7th, which corresponds to other data I have, at least in the continental United States. The second chart, which also claims to be moon phases for 2020 shows the moon being full around the 18-19th of May, which the first chart shows as a waxing crescent, with a new moon occurring on the 21st (tonight, incidentally). The moon phase data being shown on the two charts is almost exactly opposite, yet both claim to be 2020 moon charts. ~Augee |
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Posted: 5/21/2020 3:39:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Ahh, I see. Sorry for the snappy reply @ThisWildAdventure.
I’m not sure why they are different, i hadn't noticed. The black one have not been delivered, so when they get here tomorrow I will be able to compare them. I wonder if this is a stock photo for advertising that does not necessarily have updated info from year to year? Or possible intentional inaccurate info in the advertisement to prevent people from printing it? I dunno. I will post pics comparing them tomorrow when they arrive. |
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Posted: 5/21/2020 3:42:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: The moon phase data being shown on the two charts is almost exactly opposite, yet both claim to be 2020 moon charts. Yes. Only one can be right. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 3:57:45 PM EDT
[#32]
 Attached FileSo this is what arrived. It looks right to me. Not sure what is up with the pic from amazon. |
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Posted: 5/22/2020 6:58:21 PM EDT
[#33]
I HATE the moon!
 This coming from a deep sky amateur astronomer as well that uses NODS with my TeleVue EP's.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:51:50 PM EDT
[#34]
The Moon Almanac arrived. Pretty cool book.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:54:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryYep, that’s the one. |
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Posted: 5/30/2020 12:59:27 PM EDT
[#37]
My go to site for planning is: MoonCalc
Surprised no one has mentioned this one yet. Google Maps interface to find the exact position you want information on. All data on moon rise, culmination, set, phase, etc. You can also put in the height of an object and it will give show you the length of the shadow. Slide across the top enables you to change the time and see how the moon position changes. Using the following URL update with your target decimal Lat/Long saved as a favorite always takes me to the data for the current date/time at my hunting lease: mooncalc.org /#/LAT,LONG,15/null/null/2/1. |
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Posted: 5/30/2020 1:51:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/462616/60E3BF39-07A0-4CDD-90E7-E09CD7E6E802_jpe-1427933.JPG So this is what arrived. It looks right to me. Not sure what is up with the pic from amazon. That looks more like it. Dark as hell on July 15-18th 
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