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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Difficult to use passive aiming with armor on

Posted: 2/14/2020 11:20:47 AM EDT

With armor on, I could not shoulder my firearm normally. It rests on my actual shoulder instead of in between my shoulder and chest. Which is fine, but then I tried it with my nods on and found that even with the .5 riser, i found it kind of difficult to line up my eotech with my nods due to my shouldering being a bit more to my right and less the center of my body.

Also I have to tilt my head a bit more to the right which then tilts my helmet more to the front when transitioning from a low ready position.

Is this normal for everyone else? Is it because I have bridged pvs 14s? Will dedicated bnvds and or a lighter setup be solve this issue?

Posted: 2/14/2020 12:13:14 PM EDT

[#1]

Absolutely.

On all my night guns I run 1.93 risers or higher. Makes passive stuff so much easier.

Goes from PITA to incredibly easy.

Posted: 2/14/2020 12:26:56 PM EDT

[#2]

Get the optic up higher and you can. This is a 2.33 ADM tall mount, the Unity fast mounts are 2.26 and some of the geiselle and scalar works mounts put optics up at 2.04 and 1.93, but the taller the better when it comes to NV passive aiming and shooting. otherwise you'll need to start rolling your rifle inboard and at 100 meters thats going to affect your POA/POI unless you know what the bullet is going to do at off angle shooting, which I recommend you do.

Posted: 2/14/2020 1:55:01 PM EDT

[#3]

This is a great question and topic.

Posted: 2/14/2020 1:56:47 PM EDT

[#4]

Great information above and it leaves me with a follow up question; with the heightened red dot how do you manage sight picture when not wearing nods?

I ask because I’m trying to determine if i need to have a specific day and night gun or is it possible to have a rifle do both?

Curious as to what others are doing.

Posted: 2/14/2020 1:59:46 PM EDT

[#5]

i use laser beamz because of this.

Posted: 2/14/2020 2:02:41 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
Great information above and it leaves me with a follow up question; with the heightened red dot how do you manage sight picture when not wearing nods?

I ask because I’m trying to determine if i need to have a specific day and night gun or is it possible to do have rifle do both?

Curious as to what others are doing.

View Quote

Great question.

Other than zeroing your rifle in the prone position very rarely will you find yourself doing anything but heads up shooting, So the tall mounts work well during the day. They excel at Night, but I can still manage to shoot a 1-1.5 moa group from the prone with a Tall mount though its less comfortable. Tall mounts are in.

Posted: 2/14/2020 2:09:24 PM EDT

[#7]

Wearing swimmers cut multi curve plates, a Crye JPC, a standard 1/3 T1, keeping your shoulders rolled in and squared works fine for me.

Posted: 2/14/2020 2:26:41 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
Great question.

Other than zeroing your rifle in the prone position very rarely will you find yourself doing anything but heads up shooting, So the tall mounts work well during the day very well. They excel at Night, but I can still manage to shoot a 1-15 moa group from the prone with a Tall mount though its less comfortable. Tall mounts are in.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Great information above and it leaves me with a follow up question; with the heightened red dot how do you manage sight picture when not wearing nods?

I ask because I’m trying to determine if i need to have a specific day and night gun or is it possible to do have rifle do both?

Curious as to what others are doing.

Great question.

Other than zeroing your rifle in the prone position very rarely will you find yourself doing anything but heads up shooting, So the tall mounts work well during the day very well. They excel at Night, but I can still manage to shoot a 1-15 moa group from the prone with a Tall mount though its less comfortable. Tall mounts are in.

I remember Super Dave Harrington doing a white paper many years ago on "tall mounts". He got laughed at back in the day proposing what we are seeing nowadays. Funny how things come to full circle.

Posted: 2/14/2020 3:02:16 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
I remember Super Dave Harrington doing a white paper many years ago on "tall mounts". He got laughed at back in the day proposing what we are seeing nowadays. Funny how things come to full circle.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great information above and it leaves me with a follow up question; with the heightened red dot how do you manage sight picture when not wearing nods?

I ask because I’m trying to determine if i need to have a specific day and night gun or is it possible to do have rifle do both?

Curious as to what others are doing.

Great question.

Other than zeroing your rifle in the prone position very rarely will you find yourself doing anything but heads up shooting, So the tall mounts work well during the day very well. They excel at Night, but I can still manage to shoot a 1-15 moa group from the prone with a Tall mount though its less comfortable. Tall mounts are in.

I remember Super Dave Harrington doing a white paper many years ago on "tall mounts". He got laughed at back in the day proposing what we are seeing nowadays. Funny how things come to full circle.

He should post it back up and tag everyone that laughed at him. I used to run an Aimpoint on top of my scope and people were always commenting on how tall it was... Nowadays people are all about it.

Posted: 2/14/2020 3:47:04 PM EDT

[#10]

I'm a pretty high volume shooter. I will say that it took me a while to get used to the high mounts, but after a few thousand rounds it remade my reflex on cheek positioning. It doesn't affect my normal shooting any other than prone stuff.

HOB is affected, so you need to make changes really close in, but again its just a volume thing.

On lasers vs passive: Lasers are fantastically fast, but passive is easier to accurately place rounds. And the obvious: If you train for any sort of real world reasons against anyone that may have NVG's its not that great of an idea to flash a ton of IR everywhere. Light discipline isn't just for WL.

The unity stuff is worth the coin. Especially the mag mount.

On my throw around shorty, I use the 2.26 SKD PRO mount with the unity mag mount. Works great and didn't have to drop extra cash for a mini but she is a chunky girl.

Posted: 2/14/2020 3:49:18 PM EDT

[#11]

Well i just ordered the ADM tall mount and looking forward to giving it a shot.

As i thought more about it, it could help me with my trifocals. This could be a very good thing.

Posted: 2/14/2020 5:31:25 PM EDT

[#12]

It's never going to be as easy as shooting in a T-shirt.

You didn't mention what armor you're wearing and if it's appropriately sized for you. A lot of guys get bigger then appropriate plates because you think bigger - more plate to hide behind.but going up even 1 size is going to really affect your ability to shoulder a gun or even reach across your own body.

Can you fully cross your arms on your chest without restriction? Like "I dissaprove" body language crossed arms?

Posted: 2/14/2020 10:50:09 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Tall mounts are in.

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Laughs in NIT-A

Posted: 2/15/2020 12:41:31 AM EDT

[#14]

An EoTech is miles ahead of aimpoint style micro dots for passive shooting. I’m not sure if it would be the same with armor, but I don’t find risers even necessary to use eotech’s effectively for passive with NODs.

Posted: 2/15/2020 7:33:10 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
An EoTech is miles ahead of aimpoint style micro dots for passive shooting. I’m not sure if it would be the same with armor, but I don’t find risers even necessary to use eotech’s effectively for passive with NODs.

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While I do like my aim points on risers, have to agree here.

I’m an aimpoint fan boy, but the EOTech is great under nods.

Wide window. Easier to pick up. Greater viewing angles. It makes a huge difference.

Battery life kind of sucks, but whatever. It’s the better tool.

Posted: 2/15/2020 12:27:50 PM EDT

[#16]

Are the new Razor UH-1 NVG compatible for passive aiming?

Posted: 2/15/2020 12:35:20 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
Are the new Razor UH-1 NVG compatible for passive aiming?

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I would love to know this too. Hopefully someone can chime in.

Posted: 2/15/2020 1:10:42 PM EDT

[#18]

I love my EOTech with its clean 1 mil dot and the useful circle. Very good through the night vision. Even though it requires more fiddling with switches than Aimpoint, I have ditched all my rifle Aimpoints in favor of the EOTech (mine is flawless).
Mine is elevated a little bit by a LaRue mount, and I often wish it was a little higher - an inch or so above the rail at least.
Some day I'll raise it, but it works fine now.

Posted: 2/15/2020 1:11:14 PM EDT

[#19]

I had a 1.93 riser around and stacked it on top of my .5 riser. Now I have a chin weld which isn't too bad at all. Will try it later under nods if it's any better

Posted: 2/15/2020 1:28:35 PM EDT

[#20]

At some point you might just have to accept the fact that you either need to change the optic to something with a bigger window or just use the laser too. There is relatively little need to aim passively “just because.” If you are expecting to go up against a force with NV obviously that’s a different story and it pays to have a solid setup and practice the technique. I’m all for having options too, but the laser was designed to make shooting with goggles and kit a breeze.

Posted: 2/15/2020 1:47:57 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

I would love to know this too. Hopefully someone can chime in.

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“Technically no”

ETA:
Brownells review

Attached File

Posted: 2/15/2020 2:10:33 PM EDT

[#22]

Most definitely! I still plan on mainly using the laser, I just wanted the ability to use passive aiming (easier). Even with just the .5 riser I can still passively aim through it, I just want to make it a. Lil less awkward by adding the extra riser I have. In total it adds just about 2.4 inches of height and doesnt look too out of place either

Posted: 2/15/2020 2:59:20 PM EDT

[#23]

Maybe I’m weird but never had a problem passive aiming with standard lower co witness sights and armor. It’s not comfortable but don’t spend a ton of time doing it. For me it’s not much different than shooting with armor during the day with no nods.

Posted: 2/15/2020 6:44:28 PM EDT

[#24]

Anybody have any experience with the Hahn Precision .5 riser? I’m using an eotech and this would allow the magnifier to be on the same plane. Just wondering if this would be an acceptable option: https://www.brownells.com/optics-mounting/rings-mounts-amp-bases/rifle-bases/1-2-low-profile-ar-15-riser-sku100002203-21654-47309.aspx

Posted: 2/16/2020 1:43:44 PM EDT

[#25]

It worked perfectly. The height lines up almost exactly to my eye level w/o having to hunch forward much at all. Most importantly it doesn't look too bad on the pistol :)

As far as the plates/armor i'm using, it's a RMA lvl 3+ multicurved in medium sapi size. Have it in a Crye JPC 1.0 medium. I'm able to cross my arms and shoot a handgun with it on very comfortably/without a problem.

Although my build is kinda odd, i'm ~5'10", but have ~23degree scoliosis so my torso is (I think) a bit disproportionately shorter from my limbs.

Btw the below is an 11.5 barrel w/ a VLTOR A5 receiver extension w/ an OAL > 26"

Posted: 2/17/2020 3:08:29 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
It worked perfectly. The height lines up almost exactly to my eye level w/o having to hunch forward much at all. Most importantly it doesn't look too bad on the pistol :)

As far as the plates/armor i'm using, it's a RMA lvl 3+ multicurved in medium sapi size. Have it in a Crye JPC 1.0 medium. I'm able to cross my arms and shoot a handgun with it on very comfortably/without a problem.

Although my build is kinda odd, i'm ~5'10", but have ~23degree scoliosis so my torso is (I think) a bit disproportionately shorter from my limbs.

Btw the below is an 11.5 barrel w/ a VLTOR A5 receiver extension w/ an OAL > 26"

https://i.imgur.com/HRsj534l.jpg

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WoW looks heavy. I thought guys running a 1.93 for a chin mount was high, but what you got there more looks like a hip mount LOL. I'm surprised you haven't run out of vertical adjustment with such a high mount. Since the 5.56 is such a low recoiling round I use a standard 1/3 co witness and just use the toe or lower portion of the stock when running plates. In the end run what works for you.

Posted: 2/18/2020 1:47:43 PM EDT

[#27]

You're right munny it's pretty heavy lmao... I was practicing mag changes last night and boy was it putting a strain on my middle finger whenever I let go of the front w/ my off hand to get a fresh mag. I can only imagine having to hold this up for a long time... may just switch everything out to that aimpoint setup with the adm hi rise or just rely solely on the LAM

Posted: 2/18/2020 3:00:36 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
You're right munny it's pretty heavy lmao... I was practicing mag changes last night and boy was it putting a strain on my middle finger whenever I let go of the front w/ my off hand to get a fresh mag. I can only imagine having to hold this up for a long time... may just switch everything out to that aimpoint setup with the adm hi rise or just rely solely on the LAM

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When I was messing around with higher mounted optics, I used a KAC RAS II which has a built in bridge from the upper to the free floated rail. Since it already provided a 1/3 co witness @1.65 mount I add an additional 1/3 co witness mount @ 1.65 and it gave me total of 3.3". Even with body armor night vision doesn't have to exactly centered on my RDS and only use KAC BUIS ( keeps from baging against the JArm knob if you shoot with your NODs over your right eye) I found raising the sight didn't offer much gain with the weight and losing by BUIS worth it, so I stuck with a standard 1/3. Also if I ever wanted to weapon mount a PVS14 I could use a standard GI mount. The advantage of the GI mount is it makes it super simple to overlap your IR laser to your already zeroed RDS (I use 50/200) so your hold overs/unders are the same and you're zeroed without firing a single shot. Also confirming your IR laser zero every time you go out hunting or going outside the wire.

Posted: 2/18/2020 4:11:24 PM EDT

[#29]

Yeah I think i'll just remove the extra 1.93 riser and just use the .5 one. I think my problem was mainly caused by my plate carrier being misconfigured and the front pushing up which caused me to have an even more off center shoulder placement.

I'll try again tonight to see if it works any better.

Also inregards to the BUIS, have you tried offset ones? I run them and they seem pretty good and transitioning to them seems to be pretty seamless.

Posted: 2/18/2020 4:38:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yeah I think i'll just remove the extra 1.93 riser and just use the .5 one. I think my problem was mainly caused by my plate carrier being misconfigured and the front pushing up which caused me to have an even more off center shoulder placement.

I'll try again tonight to see if it works any better.

Also inregards to the BUIS, have you tried offset ones? I run them and they seem pretty good and transitioning to them seems to be pretty seamless.

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Having a proper sized and height just at your clavicle is definitely important to shooting with plates on. I do run a offset RDS on one of my 6x scoped 3gun rigs and have used offset BUIS as well. I like them and find them useful, but since I'm one of those keep everything the same due to muscle memory under duress I only use them for match guns only.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Difficult to use passive aiming with armor on

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