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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Army and Marine Night vision devices

Posted: 9/10/2019 6:31:02 AM EDT

So it seems that 2019/2020 is going to be the year of dual tubes for both branches, with the Army adopting the L3 Enhanced Night Vision Goggle – Binocular (ENVG-B), and the Marines going for the Harris F5032. I'm curious as to what's the general opinion of these systems on here, is this a step in the right direction or something else? I have to say I like the idea behind the Army's new system, but I feel like its going to weigh a ton and get broke real quick. The Marines system seems like a much more effect system but the ruggedness and survivability when given to junior enlisted may be an issue. So what say the experts on here?

L3 ENVG-B/ Army

Harris F5032/ Marines with possible thermal attachments

Posted: 9/10/2019 10:33:12 AM EDT

[#1]

Shew that ENVG isn't going to win awards for design. Would love to play with one though.

Posted: 9/10/2019 4:44:55 PM EDT

[#2]

Looks like they increased the thermal objective size from 19mm to 25mm+. I presume they’re running either 17um or 12um thermal sensors. If 12um, the larger objective will focus more photons on the sensor, which should yield better performance.

I’d like to try a set to see how it stacks up against the single-tube ENVG-III.

Aside from complexity, expense, endurance, longevity, battery life, etc — I don’t know why the Marines would elect to not go with fusion technology. The capability of good latest-generation fusion will make any user wonder how they ever got along in the Jurassic period of NV when it was just lame ol’ dual tube WPs.

Posted: 9/10/2019 7:54:58 PM EDT

[#3]

Well I have a hook up on the Harris the Marines are fielding. Still opting for the DTNVG tho, because with the Harris unit you have to get Harris thin filmed tubes to go with it.

Posted: 9/10/2019 7:58:24 PM EDT

[#4]

Interesting. I was an ENVG-3 tech for L3 when I worked there.

Posted: 9/10/2019 8:41:22 PM EDT

[#5]

A solid step in the right direction IMO.

I assume the Harris units will come with WP tubes as well?

Posted: 9/11/2019 12:06:52 AM EDT

[#6]

This is the first I have seen of the mock up for ENVG-B. Looks like the mutant love child of the BNVD (PVS-31) and FGS (PSQ-36)

PVS-31 is fairly rugged, and a lot lighter than the PVS-15. FGS is just cool, but expensive. This could be a nice system.

Posted: 9/11/2019 3:04:06 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
A solid step in the right direction IMO.

I assume the Harris units will come with WP tubes as well?

View Quote

Everything I'm seeing is yes.

I should also add that according to a few articles, the Marines will have a separate thermal attachment for their new night vision, so probably some version of the PAS-29 COTI or E-COTI.

I added some additional photos that I found floating around on the web. Most of them seem to confirm how much of a pain the new ENVG-B will be. All the pictures of it in the stowed position make it look like its gonna hang up on every damn thing, plus really throw the balance of the helmet off.

Posted: 9/13/2019 4:59:34 PM EDT

[#8]

I have... thoughts about these programs.

The Marine Corps' Squad BNVG is indeed intended to have a COTI component in the works as well, that may >cough< affect downstream commercial availability of certain other products.

~Augee

Posted: 9/13/2019 5:36:04 PM EDT

[#9]

I'm no expert, but hope it helps the good guys stay alive to kill bad guys. After I got my first Photonis PVS14 I let my cousin's kid (current Army Infantry) take a look through it. He said it was way better than what they were training with, which I was shocked to hear. Is the average grunt's NV equipment that outdated?

Posted: 9/14/2019 5:03:03 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have... thoughts about these programs.

The Marine Corps' Squad BNVG is indeed intended to have a COTI component in the works as well, that may >cough< affect downstream commercial availability of certain other products.

~Augee

View Quote

I had a feeling you'd have some insight on these programs. Anything you'd be able or willing to provide?

Posted: 9/15/2019 12:22:42 PM EDT

[#11]

Should've just gone with white 31s.

Posted: 9/17/2019 6:51:49 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Should've just gone with white 31s.

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That or go with something like the RNVG. Would make them pretty durable and less prone to breakage. I think one of the TNVC guys on here had mentioned how stripped down and delicate the 31's were, so that makes them less of an option for big military. Doesn't do anyone any good if the damn things are always broken.

Posted: 9/18/2019 1:37:23 AM EDT

[#13]

Does anyone know the proper designation for the new ENVG-Bs?

You know, like PVS/PAS/PSQ-number?

They do look heavy as hell.

Posted: 9/18/2019 4:57:41 PM EDT

[#14]

I am quite surprised the Marines went with a Greek made night vision system.

https://www.theon.com/nyx

Harris just supplies and installs the tubes.

Posted: 9/18/2019 7:59:51 PM EDT

[#15]

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I am quite surprised the Marines went with a Greek made night vision system.

https://www.theon.com/nyx

Harris just supplies and installs the tubes.

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So these will have Harris thin filmed WP? That's the main thing I've been curious about.

Posted: 9/19/2019 11:44:21 AM EDT

[#16]

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Quoted:

So these will have Harris thin filmed WP? That's the main thing I've been curious about.

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That is what the F5032s normally come with.

There's a remote possibility that the Marine Corps has custom spec'ed them, but it's unlikely, but it probably allowed the system price to come in below the BNVD (L3Harris PVS-31), which could allow for a significant chunk when buying in large quantities.

~Augee

Posted: 9/19/2019 1:54:55 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

That is what the F5032s normally come with.

There's a remote possibility that the Marine Corps has custom spec'ed them, but it's unlikely, but it probably allowed the system price to come in below the BNVD (L3Harris PVS-31), which could allow for a significant chunk when buying in large quantities.

~Augee

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Was going to say I imagine the Greek housing combined with Harris thin filmed tubes makes for a good bit lower unit price vs L3 housing & L3 filmless WP tubes.

Looks as though the Army's ugly duckling will only have fusion to the right side pod....kind of makes you wonder why they thought that thing was a better option than 31's with a removeable E-COTI. Heavy/awkward/clunky all the time, for the win?

Posted: 9/19/2019 2:52:07 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

Was going to say I imagine the Greek housing combined with Harris thin filmed tubes makes for a good bit lower unit price vs L3 housing & L3 filmless WP tubes.

Looks as though the Army's ugly duckling will only have fusion to the right side pod....kind of makes you wonder why they thought that thing was a better option than 31's with a removeable E-COTI. Heavy/awkward/clunky all the time, for the win?

View Quote

The ENVG-B will have a lot more networked features/augmented reality capabilities than just a BNVD with E-COTI will, though the E-COTI does have some through ATAK integration, and for better or for worse, the Army wants to institute a suite of networked functions, not just a single device/system solution. The Army has tried this a couple of times with Land Warrior, NET Warrior, etc., and they continue to pursue it, but various line units have already been using BNVDs and PSQ-20 ENVGs.

The ENVG-B has all the hallmarks of a device created by a committee, cooks in the kitchen and indians and chiefs and all--you'll end up with units trying to support PVS-14s, BNVDs (PVS-31), Legacy ENVG systems, and ENVG-Bs, none of which are interoperable and all require different mounts, but hey, if we can get the right COMSEC issued out and the networked systems working and fielded and the hundreds of hours of new equipment training plus a new PT test and new dress uniforms and new SAWs shooting space-age ammunition all to happen at the same time, it’ll be a great day to be an American.

Meanwhile...

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

Posted: 9/19/2019 3:21:42 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
The ENVG-B will have a lot more networked features/augmented reality capabilities than just a BNVD with E-COTI will, though the E-COTI does have some through ATAK integration, and for better or for worse, the Army wants to institute a suite of networked functions, not just a single device/system solution. The Army has tried this a couple of times with Land Warrior, NET Warrior, etc., and they continue to pursue it, but various line units have already been using BNVDs and PSQ-20 ENVGs.

The ENVG-B has all the hallmarks of a device created by a committee, cooks in the kitchen and indians and chiefs and all--you'll end up with units trying to support PVS-14s, BNVDs (PVS-31), Legacy ENVG systems, and ENVG-Bs, none of which are interoperable and all require different mounts, but hey, if we can get the right COMSEC issued out and the networked systems working and fielded and the hundreds of hours of new equipment training plus a new PT test and new dress uniforms and new SAWs shooting space-age ammunition all to happen at the same time, it’ll be a great day to be an American.

Meanwhile...

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Was going to say I imagine the Greek housing combined with Harris thin filmed tubes makes for a good bit lower unit price vs L3 housing & L3 filmless WP tubes.

Looks as though the Army's ugly duckling will only have fusion to the right side pod....kind of makes you wonder why they thought that thing was a better option than 31's with a removeable E-COTI. Heavy/awkward/clunky all the time, for the win?

The ENVG-B will have a lot more networked features/augmented reality capabilities than just a BNVD with E-COTI will, though the E-COTI does have some through ATAK integration, and for better or for worse, the Army wants to institute a suite of networked functions, not just a single device/system solution. The Army has tried this a couple of times with Land Warrior, NET Warrior, etc., and they continue to pursue it, but various line units have already been using BNVDs and PSQ-20 ENVGs.

The ENVG-B has all the hallmarks of a device created by a committee, cooks in the kitchen and indians and chiefs and all--you'll end up with units trying to support PVS-14s, BNVDs (PVS-31), Legacy ENVG systems, and ENVG-Bs, none of which are interoperable and all require different mounts, but hey, if we can get the right COMSEC issued out and the networked systems working and fielded and the hundreds of hours of new equipment training plus a new PT test and new dress uniforms and new SAWs shooting space-age ammunition all to happen at the same time, it’ll be a great day to be an American.

Meanwhile...

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

Poor man's 31's/COTI?

I like it.

I had forgotten all about the augmented reality talk in the past. But if these things will turn me into Terminator or Robocop, then I guess I'm in.

Posted: 9/19/2019 3:31:55 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Meanwhile...

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

View Quote

How much does that weigh?

Posted: 9/19/2019 3:59:40 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

How much does that weigh?

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33.9 ounces (2.12 lbs) self-contained with all onboard batteries installed, 12 hours of NV life and ~4 hours of thermal battery life.

I don't remember if I've seen an actual weight published for the ENVG-B yet, but the threshold weight was 2.5 lbs (target weight 1.5 lbs), and my suspicion is that they're not significantly lower than the threshold weight, otherwise they'd be talking up the system's light weight. IIRC, it's also only got about 7.5 hours of battery life, though I believe that can be extended by turning off the thermal channel/augmented reality features.

The FGE and GPNVG are both in the 30 ounce range as well, and the Sentinel with ball-detent and E-COTI hovers right about at 27 ounces (26.95).

~Augee

Posted: 9/19/2019 4:29:32 PM EDT

[#22]

Looks heavy.

Posted: 9/19/2019 4:35:42 PM EDT

[#23]

None of this looks Marine Proof or like it will survive a week in the jungle.

Posted: 9/19/2019 4:39:05 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

33.9 ounces (2.12 lbs) self-contained with all onboard batteries installed, 12 hours of NV life and ~4 hours of thermal battery life.

I don't remember if I've seen an actual weight published for the ENVG-B yet, but the threshold weight was 2.5 lbs (target weight 1.5 lbs), and my suspicion is that they're not significantly lower than the threshold weight, otherwise they'd be talking up the system's light weight. IIRC, it's also only got about 7.5 hours of battery life, though I believe that can be extended by turning off the thermal channel/augmented reality features.

The FGE and GPNVG are both in the 30 ounce range as well, and the Sentinel with ball-detent and E-COTI hovers right about at 27 ounces (26.95).

~Augee

View Quote

That is heavy but not terrible for what you’re getting there.

Posted: 9/20/2019 10:30:47 AM EDT

[#25]

does this mean the market is about to be flooded with surplus pvs-14's??!?!

Posted: 9/20/2019 11:34:10 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

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I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system.

Posted: 9/20/2019 12:23:30 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system.

Note to self- don't put this guy in charge of military funding.

Posted: 9/20/2019 1:37:32 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system.

View Quote

Still may get used someplace. There is video from last year of Recon Marines wearing dual -14’s on the Night Vision Devices S-Mount bridge. Most of the other guys had -31’s but there’s still plenty of -14’s laying around.

Posted: 9/20/2019 1:40:15 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
does this mean the market is about to be flooded with surplus pvs-14's??!?!

https://images2.vudu.com/background/6831-576a.jpg

View Quote

As if. They'll sink them to the bottom of the ocean before they let us lowly civilians have them. They won't even let us have their old beat up Aimpoints, so they're not about to let us have gen III night vision.

Even if they did, though, they would probably be pretty beat up. The next gen night vision will slowly replace the PVS 14s, which will be kept in circulation for less important units, training, etc. By the time we got our hands on them they would be pretty well used up, and probably cost a small fortune. I'm guessing 1500 plus for some pretty nasty tubes, 2500 plus for clean ones. A lot of people would pay it just for that milspec rating.

Posted: 9/22/2019 5:23:46 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

As if. They'll sink them to the bottom of the ocean before they let us lowly civilians have them. They won't even let us have their old beat up Aimpoints, so they're not about to let us have gen III night vision.

Even if they did, though, they would probably be pretty beat up. The next gen night vision will slowly replace the PVS 14s, which will be kept in circulation for less important units, training, etc. By the time we got our hands on them they would be pretty well used up, and probably cost a small fortune. I'm guessing 1500 plus for some pretty nasty tubes, 2500 plus for clean ones. A lot of people would pay it just for that milspec rating.

View Quote

Probably just going to give them to the various foreign militaries we train and equip.

Posted: 9/22/2019 6:30:23 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/468022/AF192838-0B97-462D-BAF7-80BA6490AA7D-1095740.jpg

“Look at what I made at school today, ma!”

~Augee

I see what you guys tried to do there retrofit ACH/ECH Helmets with Ops Core Mission Configurable Helmet Cover. and upgrade the PVs-14 with your bridge add E coti and you have an amazing cable system for a fraction of the cost. Too bad they didn’t go for this would have saved tax payers a bunch of $ and gave the boots on the ground a very capable system.

Posted: 9/29/2019 8:57:06 PM EDT

[#32]

In regards to the TNVC setup as they suggested, how expensive would it be to convert old beat up 14's to white phosphor? If they could make it cost effective that would be a good way to upgrade rear echelon units that don't need the latest hotness.

Posted: 9/29/2019 10:26:40 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
In regards to the TNVC setup as they suggested, how expensive would it be to convert old beat up 14's to white phosphor? If they could make it cost effective that would be a good way to upgrade rear echelon units that don't need the latest hotness.

View Quote

I'm sure a mil contract would get lower pricing, but I believe their PBM is $700something. WP tubes at least 2K a pop.

To truly be cost effective, I would say keep the tubes they have and snag the PBM's

Posted: 9/30/2019 8:04:35 AM EDT

[#34]

What are some of them wearing on the plate carrier that looks like a cell phone case? The female soldier has a cable ran to it also.

Posted: 9/30/2019 8:58:12 AM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

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What are some of them wearing on the plate carrier that looks like a cell phone case? The female soldier has a cable ran to it also.

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That's exactly what it is. It's a phone case.

Posted: 10/1/2019 3:24:00 AM EDT

[#36]

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What are some of them wearing on the plate carrier that looks like a cell phone case? The female soldier has a cable ran to it also.

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It's the Nett warrior system. Think a Blue Force Tracker, but in a phone.

https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/docs/pmswar/Nett-Warrior-Poster-061512.pdf

Posted: 10/1/2019 8:44:47 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

It's the Nett warrior system. Think a Blue Force Tracker, but in a phone.

https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/docs/pmswar/Nett-Warrior-Poster-061512.pdf

View Quote

Thanks.

Posted: 10/8/2019 8:29:43 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thanks.

View Quote

that case is also good for using a refular phone for navigation and comms/texting sharing images. Lots of Civ. medics have them so they can talk to the hospital with both hands free.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Army and Marine Night vision devices

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