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Posted: 8/3/2019 12:46:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Looking to get a new IR laser. Would prefer for it to also have a couple laser. Slave adjustments would be awesome. Durability is big on my list. Realistically I would only use it out to 100 yards to hunt with. A version of PERST, Holosun, used Steiner? Something else? Don't have $1k+ to put into a laser right now. Thanks Perst 4 in the EE. No IR Illum, but it has slaved Vis/Ir lasers. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Zenitco-Perst-4-Gen-2-Green-dual-IR-visible-laser-designator/148-1902522/?page=1&anc=-1 Yes, that’s $10 or so more than direct from Ivan’s website, but it’s already here in the US so you don’t have to worry about it going through customs or whatever (just worry about USPS  )
I’ve dithered back and forth about buying it as I have a Perst4P (Designed to go onto a pistol) and I really like the 4P. The Perst4 would be great on a rifle or sub gun type. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 1:00:55 PM EDT
[#2]
I wouldn't mind illumination but I realize that may impact Quality or outdue my budget
Why is that better than other options? |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 1:06:43 PM EDT
[#3]
I know, not all that helpful but i see high marks with streamlight products, the worst reviews involve comment of them bieng a bit on the bright side. Not sure if a dimmer type of ir was originally desired for their application, its not really my niche, but its quite a bit cheaper than $500
https://www.policeequipmentdealer.com/mobile/advancedsearchresult.aspx?Keyword=Streamlight%20ir#&&page=1&sortField=Price&sortType=DESC |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 2:13:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't mind illumination but I realize that may impact Quality or outdue my budget Why is that better than other options? There are new switches being made that allow for the dual use of (Russian) IR flashlights along with this flashlight. It’s relatively inexpensive for what you get (slaved lasers and all the stuff listed above). Cons? Russian made. Warranty is from a Russian company. Instructions tend to be in Russian. Chunky (both in size and weight). High intensity is DEFINITELY NOT eye safe (low side might not be either). Personally, I’d prefer Russian made over Chinese, but that’s totally up to you. If I had the $$ to spare, I’d be springing for a Perst2 or Perst3, but that’s more $ than I can spare to spend right now. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 4:22:54 PM EDT
[#5]
If you have a slim rail a used OTAL-C IR, a used SureFire M952V/622V and mount the pressure pads at 12 and 3 O'Clock on the rail. The illuminator will ll get you close to 100 yards in urban area while the IR laser will be GTG. You can easily zero it by overlapping your IR laser to your red dot at the furthest distance you can see at night.
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Posted: 8/3/2019 4:27:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have a slim rail a used OTAL-C IR, a used SureFire M952V/622V and mount the pressure pads at 12 and 3 O'Clock on the rail. The illuminator will ll get you close to 100 yards in urban area while the IR laser will be GTG. You can easily zero it by overlapping your IR laser to your red dot at the furthest distance you can see at night. Video example of a workable setup although not ideal. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NJMtE7yssu0 |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 4:59:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Looking to get a new IR laser. Would prefer for it to also have a couple laser. Slave adjustments would be awesome. Durability is big on my list. Realistically I would only use it out to 100 yards to hunt with. A version of PERST, Holosun, used Steiner? Something else? Don't have $1k+ to put into a laser right now. Thanks |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 5:36:48 PM EDT
[#8]
I just need adjustments to work reliably and it needs to be capable of withstanding being on a hunting gun that's lightly abused.
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Posted: 8/3/2019 5:49:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work? |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 6:45:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looking to get a new IR laser. Would prefer for it to also have a couple laser. Slave adjustments would be awesome. Durability is big on my list. Realistically I would only use it out to 100 yards to hunt with. A version of PERST, Holosun, used Steiner? Something else? Don't have $1k+ to put into a laser right now. Thanks |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 7:00:57 PM EDT
[#11]
I’m voting for the PERST4 on this one.
IF They prove durable and reliable overtime it is literally the best thing going. Civ LAMs are an absolute joke so a full powered unit for less than $500 is the best option going. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:12:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m voting for the PERST4 on this one. IF They prove durable and reliable overtime it is literally the best thing going. Civ LAMs are an absolute joke so a full powered unit for less than $500 is the best option going. Illuminators suck. OP didn't ask about illuminators though. I agree with those suggesting the Perst-4. Or maybe the new Holosun slaved laser unit. That will probably street for pretty cheap, but I don't know. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:30:08 PM EDT
[#13]
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I get it shooting CQB and shooting Haji in the face at full power. But I am talking short to mid range more precision on a Yote or Hog or anywhere you don't want a bloom dot taking up 40% of the critter. (Edit, in before "that's why I use thermal,
 )
I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot. 
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:36:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:37:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Sorry. Had an edit.to my post above and hit the quote button.
 Suck using a cell phone key pad!
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:43:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why don't you comment on your earlier post in this thread? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot.
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:51:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looking to get a new IR laser. Would prefer for it to also have a couple laser. Slave adjustments would be awesome. Durability is big on my list. Realistically I would only use it out to 100 yards to hunt with. A version of PERST, Holosun, used Steiner? Something else? Don't have $1k+ to put into a laser right now. Thanks I shoot with thermal but want a laser for a loaner night shooting gun. Thought I'd have to go to $500+. You guys just doing concept work now, or is something imminent and nearby? |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:54:56 PM EDT
[#18]
I’d be interested in a $200 option
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Posted: 8/3/2019 8:57:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gauging interest and feedback. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot. |
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Posted: 8/3/2019 9:54:47 PM EDT
[#20]
I’m interested for sure. I could afford to equip a few rifles at that price.
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Posted: 8/3/2019 10:15:57 PM EDT
[#21]
I'd be interested as well.
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Posted: 8/4/2019 12:11:21 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I get it shooting CQB and shooting Haji in the face at full power. But I am talking short to mid range more precision on a Yote or Hog or anywhere you don't want a bloom dot taking up 40% of the critter. (Edit, in before "that's why I use thermal, )
I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot. I thought the old LDI ND filters were 90% attenuators, but I see the current Steiners are 80%. Full 0.7mW suits me only for daylight practice with the daylight pinhole on the NV, and for IR pointer use in conditions (especially in the woods) that reveal the beam path and the target spot for the benefit of others. If I did have a full power military type IR laser, I'd put a cross generator on it and use it to sweep the countryside to recognize hazards and to reveal the lay of the land to my one good night eye. As a spot it would be useless to me. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 2:06:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Add me to the interested list. Right now I just plan on buying a VIR-II for when I'm not at work. but if you deliver what you hinted at then I will probably be in for two of those and sell my TLR-1S to swap for a VIR-II and be extremely happy 3 times
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Posted: 8/4/2019 8:32:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Class-1 aiming lasers have never been underpowered for me, out to a few hundred yards. Illuminators suck. OP didn't ask about illuminators though. I agree with those suggesting the Perst-4. Or maybe the new Holosun slaved laser unit. That will probably street for pretty cheap, but I don't know. I'd say PERST-4. I wouldn't have even gone for the 321G if I didn't get it at cost - kind of the same situation as Joe. Edit: Oh yeah, forgot about the HS LS117 series - there was a user review on here and the guy liked it a lot, good point. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 8:36:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You’ve definitely peeked my interest. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 10:05:19 AM EDT
[#26]
If you’re really on a budget, and 500$ is just about the maximum you want to spend, and you’re okay with taking a chance of n foreign gear, you may want to consider the RED laser variant Perst-4. The red is 4mW, IR is adjustable up to 20mW, unit cost is 375$. You could then buy a TNVC Torch Pro II illuminator new for 240$, or a used one for (assumedly) around 200$. This gets you a nice weapon-mounted illuminator, and a full power laser, for a total cost around 550$-600$. My next NV rifle setup is going to have the “Green+“ Perst 4 with a TNVC Torch II on it, that’ll probably be early to mid September. I have a DBAL-D2 on the way right now, and would love to write up a comparison. Both will be mounted on Geissele 13” Mk. IV handguards with 14.5” barrels, and viewed through my new and bright PVS-14 Gen III Omni VII, which totally didnt just have a 1200 Lumen strobe light shined into it from about 6 feet away by some guy.
Ive heard and (seen in pictures) that the VIR-II isnt really all too bright an illuminator, and I have read in another thread that Streamlight will NOT be making rifle adapter switches for it. Honestly, if you could afford night vision, you should be able to save up a little longer and afford a good laser and illuminator for it. Otherwise it’s like buying a Charger and getting the tiny stock model engine in it. Yeah, you probably still wont “need” it, but its really nice to have, and you’ve already got the kit that will give it the full potential it has. Just my 02¢ |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 10:29:07 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gauging interest and feedback. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 11:11:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll prepay for three right now. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 11:23:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gauging interest and feedback. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
ALL .7mW pointers are way too powerful to begin with under 300 yards IMHO with bloom dots. Anything over that power level unless tamed with IR Lum or shooting long ranges is useless bloom points. I told Steiner WAY back when along with Surefire more recently during my pre-release X400 IR-V testing I was doing early on for HG work was to either dump the .7mW or have it adjustable. Story I got was "the customer wanted it that way." I can say times are changing and sometimes you don't want IR Lum for a variety of reasons and just need a good clean shot dot. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 3:16:18 PM EDT
[#30]
C'mon @TNVC at least tease some pics...
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Posted: 8/4/2019 3:46:20 PM EDT
[#31]
DVOR has a DBAL I2 on sale for $649.
https://www.dvor.com/laser-devices-dual-beam-aiming-laser-intelligent-dbal-i2-ir-pointer-and-led-illuminator.html Not sure if it's exactly what OP is looking for, and is a bit over his stated budget, but it looks like a deal. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 9:01:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DVOR has a DBAL I2 on sale for $649. https://www.dvor.com/laser-devices-dual-beam-aiming-laser-intelligent-dbal-i2-ir-pointer-and-led-illuminator.html Not sure if it's exactly what OP is looking for, and is a bit over his stated budget, but it looks like a deal. Not exactly sure why they're calling it an LED illuminator though, as I'm preeeeety sure it's a laser based illuminator. |
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Posted: 8/4/2019 11:48:53 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice that's the i2 model to get IMO as well. IR/IR. Not exactly sure why they're calling it an LED illuminator though, as I'm preeeeety sure it's a laser based illuminator. 
Ive read that the DBAL-D2 is a diffused laser-based illuminator, but Steiner says it isnt, calling it an LED. The civilian legal i2 doesnt have an illuminator. The PEQ-2 variant does have an illuminator, but its illuminator is considered “>4mW Class 3r / 835nm” which leads me to believe it actually is laser based. |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 10:37:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work? I bought a holosun LS117IR a few weeks ago for $250. so far so good. |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 10:46:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Thanks to those of you that have offered feedback on products that are on the market. It seems as though my initial options are indeed what I should be looking at
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Posted: 8/5/2019 11:37:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gauging interest and feedback. 
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Posted: 8/5/2019 12:01:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work? |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 12:22:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work? |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 1:11:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ive heard and (seen in pictures) that the VIR-II isnt really all too bright an illuminator, and I have read in another thread that Streamlight will NOT be making rifle adapter switches for it. Honestly, if you could afford night vision, you should be able to save up a little longer and afford a good laser and illuminator for it. Otherwise it's like buying a Charger and getting the tiny stock model engine in it. Yeah, you probably still wont "need" it, but its really nice to have, and you've already got the kit that will give it the full potential it has. Just my 02 The VIR2 is compatible with all the TLR1 switches, etc and there are rifle pressure switch adapters already available for TLR1, so I'm not sure what you mean. |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 1:23:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they think LED means Laser Emitting Device
Ive read that the DBAL-D2 is a diffused laser-based illuminator, but Steiner says it isnt, calling it an LED. The civilian legal i2 doesnt have an illuminator. The PEQ-2 variant does have an illuminator, but its illuminator is considered “>4mW Class 3r / 835nm” which leads me to believe it actually is laser based. |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 2:02:20 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@TNVC is this going to be another tease that takes two years to materialize? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Does laser have to have IR Lum? Single IR laser .2mW adjustable to .7mW, durable, mounting for long guns and HG's and under $200 work?
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Posted: 8/5/2019 2:07:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe longer.... At first glance, I'm probably not your targeted customer given my budget. But if you're really making a $200 laser, maybe I am. And maybe others in this thread are, too. Or not. I guess it's your call if you want us to be! Have a good day. And thanks again to those that have contributed. |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 2:22:55 PM EDT
[#43]
Lighten up Francis, it was a joke to the smart ass comment.
As stated, gauging interests and will NOT give release dates on anything ever any longer. Have a great day!
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Posted: 8/5/2019 2:35:28 PM EDT
[#44]
It wasn’t a smart ass comment. It was a legit question. If you have a product like you describe is it vapor ware right now? Still in development? Just something you are mulling over? I’m not one of the dog pile on TNVC guys. I’m a very happy customer with the products I have purchased from you in the past.
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Posted: 8/5/2019 2:46:31 PM EDT
[#45]
It's vaporware*. They don't have the product. They actually don't even know how to make it.
*The above comment was my trolling attempt at reverse psychology ;.) |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 4:04:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's vaporware*. They don't have the product. They actually don't even know how to make it. *The above comment was my trolling attempt at reverse psychology ;.) 
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Posted: 8/5/2019 4:05:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's vaporware*. They don't have the product. They actually don't even know how to make it. *The above comment was my trolling attempt at reverse psychology ;.) Kind of on-topic $500 IR laser link: https://tnvc.com/shop/ldi-otal-class-1-ir-laser/ |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 4:08:57 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Looking to get a new IR laser. Would prefer for it to also have a couple laser. Slave adjustments would be awesome. Durability is big on my list. Realistically I would only use it out to 100 yards to hunt with. A version of PERST, Holosun, used Steiner? Something else? Don't have $1k+ to put into a laser right now. Thanks |
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Posted: 8/5/2019 4:10:16 PM EDT
[#49]
I would buy a couple as well.
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Posted: 8/5/2019 4:36:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are you hunting? For coyotes a decent illuminator is a must to get positive ID and for spotting eyes. Under $500 you could look at a used x400-IRC good inline laser and decent illuminator, more than enough out to 100 yards. Other than that a Steiner OTAL-C and a cheaper illuminator will work and keep you close to $500. |
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