Has 2 focus. Front focus and rear focus.

I read some of the pages in this thread and I don't understand the benefit of the Sionyx?  It seems much worse than a normal PVS14 in every category.

Why not just get one of the XLS offerings from one of the vendors over the Sionyx?

"Every" category you say.

because my aurora was $420. and with IR its very usable. no ITAR so I can travel with it. being around bright objects is zero issue and Im willing to bet it handles bright lights much better than gen 3. plus if my kid leaves it turned on I am out a battery and not a $3000 tube. people piss and moan about having to use IR but as a civilian the odds of my enemy having NVG is close to zero, I'm not fighting a military. plus its a good stop gap if you ARE buying tubed NVG. lets you get some training in with your new lights lasers and tall mounts, while you wait 4-6 months for your NVG to be built. and when you get those, its a cheap loaner for friends to use and not having to again worry about a newb fucking up your $3000 tube.

I did play with both of them.
It just seems it cannot get crystal clear in my opinion, or my expectations are much higher.

Yes...the lens is poor. It does not help that in night mode when the lens is wide open with no ir filter that
there is no way for all the colors to focus at the same time. With only IR lighting in the scene it seems sharper to me.
Fast lenses that are sharp wide open are expensive. It is what it is. Apochromatic it is not. Coma and softness too.

Yes to all. Immune to light damage unless you hit the sensor with a big laser or point it at the sun. It is a handy and sensitive IR detection tool too.
  It is very cool for what it is. Is it ideal? Hell no...it has many flaws. But for many uses it is fine.

Thanks for the explanation.

That's a pretty good synopsis. And the Pro eliminates some of the cons with a wider field of view (28ft at 50ft), (somehow) less motion blur on the EVF, and usable down to NL4. Is analog better- sure, but you'll pay. In my case (pre-ordered two Pro's) it's $1800 vs at least $6,000. For *my* expected needs, they work 'good enough' - they won't for other's expected needs, and wanting the 'best' isn't a crime either.

On the Fantasy LARPING side where you fight JSOC, Alpha Group, or whatever the Chinese are called, don't you think it would be a good idea to see these, or foreign equivalents?:





At almost 2 years in, these debates are old - if you've put in serious time training with an Aurora and it still doesn't work for you, rock on, can't be more fair then that.  But if you're one of those "I heard" or "I looked through one for 5 mins" guys... OK, you do you, Boo-boo. I just finished 75th Sniper Paul Martinez' book 'When the Killer Man Comes', and am half-way through Nicolas Irving's 'The Reaper' - they both used a shit ton of IR against the Taliban, along with having problems with the best i2 in '09-'10 - Indian, not the Arrow.

What is necessary to run one of these on a normal bayonet style rhino mount?  Does a normal jarm attach like a regular pvs14.

Got to head out to the cabin this past weekend for some daytime muzzle loader hunting and night time messing around with helmet mounted Aurora pros.   It was very overcast with basically zero light from the moon or stars.  Without IR, the pros were useful but very grainy and visibility was limited.  With the inforce IR lights in my helmets turned on, it was like magic!  After a few minutes of walking, I got pretty comfortable, and the feeling of losing my balance went away.   We walked from the cabin to the end of the driveway (about a quarter mile) and back.  We could see all the way down the driveway clearly and beyond.  On the walk back, we came face to face with the black bear that’s been on the game cams.  It was about fifty yards away.  I put IR lasers from my 300 blk sbr on its forehead and yelled.  Thankfully, it hauled ass.  After the walk, we sat on the front porch and watched the wildlife.  We saw a fox, owl, several deer.  The highlight was when one of the c-130 training flights came through at treetop level and I was able to watch one through the trees as it flew by.  Anyway, with a good helmet setup and IR light, these seem to be incredibly functional and useful to me.  I’m very happy with the purchase and the cost / capability ratio that they have provided me.  We wore them for about five hours total and the batteries were still strong with the Anker power packs we had.

Game cam pic

Attached File

Did you adjust the diopter?

Cool story

No bayonet. No jarm.

Watch my video on youtube to explain modding a rhno2.
Or get a Wilcox l4g24 clone or real

And there are links in the video description to everything you need

I was going to respond to twistid1 but I think you about covered it.

the original is back, and now in carbon fiber. Will be available this week.

Attached File

What are the pros and cons of original vs mk2?

Pro's for MK1C over MK2:
lighter, less mass
costs less
both optics are upside down so the HUD letters line up
can angle L/R a couple degrees extra


Con for MK1C over MK2:
both optics are upside down so it may rub your nose on the right, MK2 flips the right optic over away from nose
requires screw driver to adjust eye width, MK2 has thumb wheels
sits slightly lower overall, MK2 has optimized geometry for most helmets

I hope I did.
As I understand it, there is the lens focus up front and and smaller wheel in the back.
I did play with both of them in different configurations.

I should probably mention it was all done at night in night mode. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Yea sounds correct.  However,  you need a IR light such as a Fanydyfire 940nm. It makes this much crisper.

Hmmm...the Black is on sale today on Amazon for $650. Fo or wait for a Black Friday deal on a Pro?

The rear wheel near the EVF can be done anytime, if you want - just look at the border info and click it until that info is crystal clear (and on my eyes, which must change a lot, I occasionally have to go in or out a click to keep it sharp). On the front focus ring, like gaspain said, click on an IR illuminator and check the image - anything past about 10-15 feet can use 'Infinity'' - this will let you know if you have a problem - under IR/Good Ambient/Moon, it should look like a Blu-ray. Under less than perfect conditions, the image *will* look 'less than' - I'd call it digital "scintillation" - but it shouldn't be really bad unless you are in marginal conditions for your model.

Black/Classic/Sport under IR (EVF will look better)



Black/Classic/Sport before Moon Rise (Screen grab from a video)



Black/Classic/Sport under Full Mon (Screen grab from a video)

The problem with Pro availability is that they are (or were) Out of Stock, and other than the intro offer at $899, I haven't seen them discounted. But in my bias opinion, it's worth even the extra $350 over the Black, if going $1400 more (Using NGI as the model) is just a deal breaker for a 14 (and throwing even more decision confusion into the mix - PVS-7s apparently can be had for around $1000) . Coming from the Gen 1 Classic/Sport, The Pro being usable at NL4 without help, is really nice.

But only you can decide if you don't mind using IR at less than ~1/2 Moon or equivalent. I mean, if you live in Portland proper, the Black will be just fine

Yes. Got one. Impressive.

At 100m when the light beam is narrow it's crazy how much it can illuminate a dark area.

I would say that last image resembles my situation.

Last image is at Infinity, targets in focus guy is blurry - it's also a screen grab off a video, so not as good as real life.

just a reminder to start with this:

Tips for setting up SiOnyx camera for helmet use as of 9/14/2019, subject to firmware changes:
1-Use Video mode, set EIS off, FPS to 30, 720p, HDR on (or photo mode)
2-Long press the SET button to access the menu, Toggle down to EVF Time Out and set to "Never". Then scroll down to image and set to invert on the left camera.
3-Zoom in 3 clicks for 1:1 view (using the 4 way buttons). Use 2 clicks for the Pro version.
4-Turn down viewfinder illumination almost all the way (using the 4 way buttons)
5-Rotate front ring from Day to Night mode.

MK1C is live now
I had my friend try and break this one with his two hands. He couldn't do it. This thing is the strongest one yet.

Attached File

So I have resisted this thinking, but I really don’t think my camera is as good as others here. I want to see what you guys think. I finally got around to getting a proper helmet set up with the gaspain mount and some airsoft stuff. I have found that the view finder image is worse then the image the camera saves when I take a picture. I also find my eyes see in the dark better then the camera can. (Without IR).
Here is a view out an upstairs window tonight. Plenty of light outside, and there is some light coming into the room.
Attached File


But here is what I see in the viewfinder.
Attached File


There is a GSD on the couch in both of the photos..

Kid toys on ottoman...
Attached File


Through viewfinder..
Attached File


It struggles in a bedroom with a night light on. Are my expectations too high?

Helmet setup pick.

Attached File


I did also dick around with a FNX .45 with a RMR on it. I think if I black out the night sights, and add an IR light to the front of the gun, it could be extremely effective.

And a couple more comparison pictures...

Attached File


Attached File


You can kinda see the GSD in this one... it’s his birthday so he’s a little fat Andy lazy from the pup ice creams and biscuits.
Attached File

You NEED a IR light. But visible light will work to test for blur. Looks blurry to me, but light crisps up things. Do that to test

It looks great with IR or white light. I just see people posting how it looks better in the viewfinder then in photos, and I felt it was the opposite for me. Even in menus the image is better for some reason. Literally the background image is better if there is a menu open on the screen. If what I have is normal, that’s fine, but the warranty is going to run out in the next couple months, so I want to check!

With IR
Attached File

also make sure the battery is fully charged, not sure if that matters tho

Well, Amazon dropped the Black to $599 last night so I went ahead and grabbed one. Be here tomorrow. I guess I'll see what all the hub bub is about, for better or worse.

I found the image in the screen to be worse with HDR on. I also had better luck with video mode than picture.

Maybe try switching your settings around.

Like it was said though, in environments with little ambient light, the sionyx struggles.

OK made it through all 85 pages.  Some observations.

First, full disclosure.  I run a high cut ballistic helmet, Wilcox shroud, and L4 G24 mount, Wilcox -14 arm, NE-PVS14-17 (10-yr old, Omni V-ish vintage?).  On my gat, I run a Perst-3, as pertains to this here discussion.

And my NV philosophy.  I happen to believe that for my purposes, the older gen III stuff works just fine; in fact I think some of the newer gen II "+" is perfectly usable.  My main mission it to have fun with all my toys.  My secondary mission, if it ever comes to pass, is to interdict bad people with evil intent, as far away from my house as possible.  While the newer stuff would be fun to have, especially if anyone wants to give it to me, the older gen III stuff works perfectly fine.      

And finally the Sionyx.  Well to Mick's point, as long as you can use active IR, it is a viable alternative for entry-level NV.  Especially if you are on a tight budget.  

Will digital replace analog?  Probably but the timeline is still in doubt, IMHO.  Depends on what you mean by replace.  If you are saying it will eventually reach an older gen III level, then yeah that's probably coming.  But if you mean the newer gen III "filmless" WP?  Not any time soon; they keep moving the goal posts on that one; supposed to be a big improvement coming soon next year.  Strictly my opinion here; agreement not required.  

But again, I do believe it is a very viable alternative, for a lot of people.

Some additional comments.

Guys need to get out on other threads/forums for knowledge base.  I was surprised at the lack of knowledge concerning helmets, shrouds, mounts, etc.  For example that last dude with the ill-fitting helmet and pad situation.  And for the love of god, find out what a fucking Rhino II is, and how to mod it for a fucking dovetail.  Basic research; lots of free chicken here.

Painting your kit.  Same thing.  Excellent dope in that forum.  

I found out some new info on "airsoft" grade kit.  Some of it ain't all that bad, especially for this app.

The "Not Tech Forum Comments" was pretty funny around the low 50's.  It was like listening to explicatives being bleeped out.  But other than that minor purse-swinging, everyone pretty much stayed on track.

Kudos to Mick, and our Digger from down unda for their T&E.    

And to Gaspains for his mounts.

As for me and mine, gonna stay with gen III analog.  In fact I am adding a Breach and bridge mount soon.  But for guys just starting out, hell yeah, good alternative to get you into the game.  It took me 30 years to get into NV.  If this had been available, I would have been able to get into it long before that.  So yeah, to the OP, legit alternative to a -14?  Not yet, but then it's also still very useful, for what it is.          

Black/Classic/Sport need IR, starting (no exact number) at something under ~Half Moon or equivalent light levels. You may be expecting too much for un-aided use. The B/C/S also, as you can see, "go gray" when they start to struggle, which also doesn't help. The Pro doesn't do that - once you hit NL5, anything it can't resolve, just stays black, which still allows high contrast items (the PVC Target Stands in one of my vids) to be distinguishable, without the gray noise. Marginal levels indoors (or in a vehicle cab) is tough for digital - digital (seems - not a Sionyx engineer) to need whatever ambient exists, to be coming in from all around it. When I just drove with my Pros, I first went out back with 'ANTIFA Bob' the dummy, put him down by the shed in the black hole, and walked back about 100 yds - I could see him easy. But when I got in the cab of the truck, cutting off the sky (this was on the 16th, New Moon, 0% Illumination, at 3AM) there wasn't enough detail to safely drive because of the roof cutting off the sky view. Even under a Full Moon, the B/C/S will need IR if you go into thick brush/woods from an open area - that's exactly what happened at a night shoot last year, when we moved from the flat range to a 'Jungle Lane' course - I had to use IR with a Classic/Sport Combo.

You aren't going to get PVS-7/14 performance across the board for the price of digital. That's why all of us say "you have to be cool using IR if you need it" - only you can make that determination, for *your* use case/scenarios. The Pro actually delivers on "moonless starlight" (at least at my location - I have no idea how much surrounding communities light pollution is contributing - I'm not really close to anything, but who knows how far that stuff travels) - but going into the woods, dropping to upper NL5 (can't see your outstretched hand) even it needs IR. Analog can go a lot deeper into NL5 before needing it, and unless under IR or at high ambient levels, will look better at every step.

On your particular unit, I see you are at a 0.5 second shutter. I would switch to AUTO or 1.5 SECONDS and see if it improves. Be advised, if using an illuminator (either helmet or weapon mounted) you can't use a manual shutter - the IR will blow out the image. In PHOTO mode with an illuminator, you need to use AUTO. The best image with VIDEO mode, is obtained at 360p/7.5fps - but that is unusable for anything but static observation. 360p/24 is as low as I'd go, at the cost of a little more motion blur on the EVF than 30fps. HDR doesn't really do anything on the B/C/S models - it helps tremendously on the Pro - must have something to do with the density on the 2nd Gen chip(?) I also find (with the Pros at least, can't remember my others) that LOWERING the GAIN into the -1.0 to -2.0 range, gives a better image on the EVF.

When we talk about the EVF looking better than the captured pics/vids - that is at levels the unit can handle (i.e. "this looks pretty good") - when you get to your 'static point', the raw data off the sensor does look better, even though it's compressed to 720/360 (the sensor is 1024p, and the EVF is 768p with a super-high pixel density).

You're a beast

Yeah good post. Since I know both our backgrounds started in the early 80's - having done *almost everything* without NODs - I think younger guys get a bit hung up on gear, and thinking you *need* the latest and greatest to do anything. The deep woods nav under NODs thread was fun to read - you'll hear peeps LONG before you can see them with NODs - at least if you're in terrain that approximates: Camp Darby - Ft. Benning, Camp Merrill - Dahlonoga, Camp Rudder - Florida, JRTC - Ft Chaffee, JRTC - Ft. Polk, and JOTC - Ft, Sherman, among many, many, more.

I also know that we could have used (and probably would have, based on price and Non-ITAR) the absolute f*ck out of Auroras in Iraq. Our static crew at the ASP had to deal with the local Jihadis sneaking into the wire and stealing IED material - I'd have handed a $500 Aurora, and a $20 Fandy Illuminator to every Kurd tower we had.

Remember, Kurt Muse was rescued with $40 SCUBA lights hose clamped to CAR-15s - nowadays dudes would be like "What? No Modlite OKW's? You'll get killed in da streetz!"

I get it, it's fun to debate on the internet - but sometimes I shake my head. I could buy analog and most likely write it off since I'm a .mil/LE business - don't need it, so why tie up the money? I'm good with dual Aurora Pros on an articulating bridge, and a hand held AGM Micro 384 Thermal. Besides, (to me) It's fun to make shit work, as opposed to turn-key solutions. Others may want 'the best' and just want to open a box - 'Merica!

Thank you everyone!!

I have played with the settings, and usually run the photo mode on auto. It works slightly better then video mode for me. Micks experiences look to mirror mine. Like I said, I just want to make sure I don’t have a bum unit before the warranty runs out.

I need to start saving up for some thermal now.

Ha yeah I think were brothas from a different motha; pretty much same timeframes.  And yeah, you have different wants, needs, and ways to go about it.  There's nuttin wrong with that, although you guys have gotten some hate from the "neva- digitals".  Some of that may be commercial, some of that Ludite, who knows.

I do think this is an excellent gateway to duals, especially if you have optical issues with mono's.  So yeah, if'n I was just starting out, I'd be rocking these out.  

Not to get all wonky on ya but been reading a lot of Lind lately, and he brings up countless low-tech counter-measures to our high-tech toys.  So all the Teddys out there with their filmless WP duals could be in for a big surprise when well, never mind.  And as you said, with a light in the 1150 range, digital comes into it's own. So yeah to your/my point fieldcraft trumps tech any day of the week.  You could put a J-Soc ninja in jock strap and hand him a rock, and at the end of the day he'll be fully kitted up, after accomplishing his mission, exfil'ing the area, and having a brew.  That's what's lost on most folks.

To your point, I'd rather have a whole team in digitals than few guys with duals.  You could have NV and a nice rifle set up for the price of gen III alone.

So yeah, next time we get one of those threads were the dude sez "hey man I'm looking for NV in the 500 dollar range..."

Great synopsis! Your tubes will have to be replaced and they can be finicky with bright light. A flare can ruin a tube. So far I've been impressed with the Sionyx.

Dual Tech Owners:

Can somebody measure, how far across you can see through your tube/s, at 50 feet.

I found a wall outside (back of my 3-Car) and used a tape measure to measure off 35 feet. Then placed markers (2x4's) every 5 feet. Then I measured back 50 feet and stuck a stick in the ground. Then at night, went to the stick, put the left edge on point 0, and counted the markers and was just short of #6 at 1:1 - or ~28 feet, with the right edge. X degree FOV is meaningless to my math challenged self, what is it, in feet, at 50 feet? Thx.

About 30-31 degrees given a distance of 50ft and 28 ft field of view.

Later edit. I think I made a slight mistake previously.

Teach me the math!!!! I spent a long time on Google looking for a formula - how do you figure angle, given distance and width? Thx.

https://www.calculator.net/triangle-calculator.html

if you just wanted a rough estimate it would be this:

Attached File


If you wanted to be more precise, you have to figure your hypotenuse and go from there.

Attached File

Oh I can work with that! Awesome, thanks!

*Pro* FOV

Default FOV (No Zoom), 40 feet at 50 feet. Using the calculator above gives an FOV of 45.24° (It's a little less, as the legs will be a bit longer than for 1:1, but not by much).



1:1 FOV (2 Clicks on Pro), 29 feet at 50 feet = 32.383° (each leg measure 52 feet).

You want to use the Tangent function to solve for the angle since you know the opposite and adjacent sides of the triangle.

I divided the triangle into to smaller and equal ones having a 90 degree angle where the 50ft and the 28ft wall meet.
The 50ft line is assumed to be perpendicular to the 28ft wall.
Therefore you get two triangles of 50ft perpendicular to half of the wall (14ft).

The Tangent function will give you the angle between the 50ft section and the hypotenuse.
Multiply that angle by two.

My mini review:

My Sionyx Black showed up yesterday along with my memory card and FandyFire IR light. You need to go ahead and order the memory card, because reading the description it says both that it's included and that it's not included- it's not. The rail mount included is made of steel and weighs a lot, so get another mount if you're going to use it on a gun. Charged it up and waited until dark.

About 9pm took the dog out. I live in a subdivision with lights but it's an older subdivision so there are large mature trees that give plenty of shade during the day. It was partly cloudy with no moon. I live about 2-3 miles from a major road with lots of businesses so there is always a glow off any clouds we have. I do have darker areas in the back yard and side of the house where no light reaches.

I was really interested in the passive abilities of the camera, so I mostly kept the IR light off. The ability to use ambient light really helps this thing. I had no problem seeing into all but the darkest areas around my house and the neighbors' houses. It is like a regular camera in that if someone has a bright light on it will overexpose the lens and you won't be able to make out dark areas surrounding that light. I ended up switching to grayscale from the color setting because I felt I got more detail and contrast from the GS- on the color setting there was a lot of purple and streetlight light bouncing off the street and houses was green (there is a white house a few down from me that directly faced a street light and it was VERY bright green). The green color setting was too bright and also washed out a lot of detail.

The glow off the clouds I had helped the image a lot and the sky actually looked like the sun was going to come up soon.

In the darker areas you get noise in the viewfinder which only gets worse the darker the area you're looking at. In pitch black it becomes unusable, but I expected this. In fact, because of the amount of static in the viewfinder, after a certain light level you're better off just using your eyes.

Of course, I couldn't help but use the IR light some. As others have said, that's where this camera really comes into it's own. The quality of the image under IR is superb- dare I say better in contrast and detail than Gen 3 NV, but with a more limited range, due to the range of the IR light.

All in all, it's what I expected, maybe a little better. I figured I could return it if I wasn't happy, and I'm going to continue to play with it. It's MUCH better than anything Gen 1 of course, Gen 2 is better in most ways (but not all)  and of course it doesn't hold a candle to Gen 3/3+, but you don't have any of the disadvantages of true NV.

I picked mine up for $599 on Amazon. They've been playing with the price lately- I initially saw it at $699, then it dropped to $649. When I went to order it had actually dropped again so I jumped.

This is good NV capability for those who can't drop $1500-2000 for Gen 2 or $3K+ for Gen 3, but if you live in a dark place out in the sticks and are unwilling to use IR you will be disappointed.

eta: You can use a #30 Butler Creek cap to protect the lens but you'll need to cut the rubber all the way around right behind the hinge so it will be a more shallow fit (if that makes sense).