http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE

Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there?

Lower Profile when flipped up (or over all), and I get more adjustment. This is probably person/helmet dependent, but my R2 was "all the way up", vertically - the G24 is only ~2/3 up. The R2 works great too, and if I wasn't bored / A "you have to try stuff out before talking about it" person - very happy with R2. That articulating bridge is the tits though - Nick Chen deserves an award for trying that out and posting about it - that makes your mount almost not matter, as you just rotate each unit up = even lower profile... or go Monocular mode if passive aiming by "brain merging" works better for you, vs trying to get a tube behind the optic.

Every view through it had some sort of visible light on too.

I just realized this post was 68 pages long.  

have you found which bino's you want? I have thought of selling my setup and getting a 14.

Leaning heavily to BNVD-SG

Pros:

Articulating
Roll up = turns off the side being rolled up
Flip up = Both tubes turn off
Flip down = Both tubes auto on
AA batteries = easier to find, cheaper and the Lithium ones are superb
10 year tube warranty
Waterproof to 66 ft for 2 Hrs. (I will go OTB with these on in my pool)
Autogated
Single gain knob controls both tubes
Lightweight = 20.5 oz

Cons:

Can't detach a single monocular (not important if I am keeping my current PVS-14)

I'm going to create a bino feature matrix spreadsheet.

so I am looking for a low profile light weight mount for my 1" flashlight on the unity peltor rail mount. I have a old trash scope ring with a 1" reducer in it at the moment and it works but its a crappy one, and its taller than it needs to be as well as not as light as it could be.

whats the goto? I also ordered a cheap IR p60 drop in, I would love to get a  custom made 1050mn P60 engine but most of the high end custom flashlight guys arent doing p60 anymore since surefire gave up on that system years ago.

Without having time to read all 68 pages lol.

How noticeable is the lag when its head mounted? I'm kinda thinking about picking up the Aurpra Black or PRO.

Not bad (and non-existent if you listen to @mickdonaldson). You can wear them head mounted and navigate, shoot, etc.

I’m about to throw my 2 new (less than 1 hour of play time) OGs with bridge mount on EE.

It's an expectations thing. Everyone's are different. For a relatively cheap toy the aurora is awesome. For the overwhelming majority of people nvg's are a toy, some have to have the best because it makes their penis bigger. To each his own.

Used with an IR illuminator, they will abso-fuckin-lutely provide you with an OMFG NIGHT VISION!!!! Freedom Boner.

So you are ditching your analog NVGs for the Auroras?

Nope... The opposite. I haven’t really touched the Auroras since getting the PVS-14.

If I were into taking pics and videos of my LARPing adventures, I’d keep at least one Aurora but I don’t see myself getting into NV photography or filming hog hunts.

I wish I could afford PVS 14s lol. Kinda why I'm really interested in that Aurora black or pro. If I could get that latency down it may be a viable option to hold me over for long enough to get something nice

@Sapperdaddy04 I find the latency only noticeable when I rip my head side to side. Like turn really quickly because I heard a noise or something, but even then it's not enough that you need to freak out about. It sucks swinging your head with a 5 pound helmet anyway

I don't know how good arfcom search is, but look for my posts in the last 10-15(?) pages (and going back to Sept, when I actually started shooting with them, if you want).

True "lag" - as in a delay coming in and then out of the sensor, is unknown - it's never been measured. In the real world, there is no "lag" as in "my target is moving in real life, but still standing still in my EVF and I missed" that I've ever detected.

There *IS* a slower than optimal pixel refresh rate, on the EVF - this is what 99.9% of everyone (usually people that don't own, or spent at least hours and hours "doing stuff" like shooting  with them) calls "lag". This causes motion blur, or smearing if you pan or tilt your head fast and aren't focused on something that is also moving (because in that case, the target is focused in the center, just the background is blurred). It takes 16ms to "clear up" - this may be why people incorrectly use the term "lag"? How much that bothers you, is individual, and also depends on how long you use them for. If someone whips off their 14, looks through an Aurora, and hands it back, they'll complain about "lag". Shoot with one for a month straight, not touching your analog stuff, and it's barely noticeable and hasn't caused any shooting problems for me yet. A couple guys in here actually kill living things with Auroras - and they hit! Imagine that .

The upside with the Aurora from a purchase standpoint, is it's on Amazon - if you don't like it, return it down at 'The UPS Store' and your money is refunded the minute they scan the QR Code - it's as close to no risk to try, as you can get. As far as Black vs Pro - that depends on your wallet, and honest assessment of how you'll use it...AND - If the Pro, can you spend, and how long would it take to save another $1000 for a used 14? (Memorial/Fathers Day may have the Pro for $899, but no idea). The 14 needs no help in really low light (until everybody needs IR), The Black will, and the Pro is unknown if/how much help it needs - Nick Chen's 2nd test device, he liked (the first was defective). The new Pro shipping date is "End of May". Only you can decide if having to use an IR illuminator when needed, is a problem, and if it's worth saving a grand.


If you only need a Monocular, and don't *need* color/gps/compass/pictures/video...and you can save an extra $1000 in a reasonable amount of time for a used Green Phosphor 14 - it's hard to say "Go Pro"... but to some people, "an extra grand" is years = especially now. I don't physically feel great with GP Mono's, so $1600 for Dual Pro's (Grayscale or Color) beats ~$6K for used WP Binos every time, *for me*.

They're water proof. By a Sport, mask
the lens & the view finder glass & paint
to suit. Easy peasy.

At the new prices, it's the Aurora Sport or GTFO.

You can get a legit gen 3 PVS-7 in the EE for <$1500 quite easily. 2-3 seem to pop up in the EE monthly.

(I'm still reading through the last 15 pages.....)

I keep looking at the Sport and the Black and I can't see a difference other than the color is there something I'm missing? Also does painting it void the warranty? I definitely don't need the GPS or any of that.

ARFCOM search functions sucks lol.

Kinda making a list of what I'll need for a helmet setup.
HHV bump helmet
FAST mount
Anker power pack

No clue what cables and everything I'll need for the power pack
No clue on what arm ill want, I was looking at the Rhino 2 dovetail

@Sapperdaddy04

Check my post/list near the top of page 63.


John

If you haven't seen it yet:

They told me no vets discount???

I was thinking the same thing...

Tried the 950nm pass filter on the Fandy. With the Fandy unzoomed, I could not make out any red light after about 7-8 yards. Zoomed in all the way it was the same at about 30-35 yards. It is pretty effective at reducing any visible red light that can be seen coming from the light and didn't degrade the output much if at all.

Filtered/Unzoomed:
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Unfiltered/Unzoomed:
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Do you have a gen3 tube you can try the Fany+Filter on?

I'm interested to see how sensitive THAT.

All I got is an old ATN Voyager binocular that is Gen II. I'll pull it out and see how it does. You interested in how it works as an illuminator or from down range?

That Fandy is the best deal in Night Vision. I'd like to see someone who owns all 3 (Gen3 Analog, an Aurora, and a Fandy) do comparison pics at range (100+) to see if it falls off for analog, since it's 940nm. This is the Fandy next to a MAWL at 250 (each cone is 50).



But I don't know what it looks like to Gen3 (I didn't think to grab one from the other guys, to see).

I dont get the deal with the visible light. the 940 fandy is literally a faint red spot even from 1' away. and yeah its damn impressive, but its just a light. its not exactly rocket surgery. china has been making led flashlights for decades now.

Is there a reason someone can't hook two synced cameras up to an Aurora & PVS-14 (like in all the comparison vids) and sweep it across a bar-strobe test pattern sheet at different brightnesses?

This thing's been out for years; there's no excuse for "we don't know what the actual lag is" at this point unless it's embarrassing

One year, I think? What lag are you talking about - actual, digital engineer defined lag, from the time data enters the sensor, to when it leaves? Or 'End User'  "lag" which is the misnomer given to the "smearing" on the EVF, when you Pan or Tilt above a certain speed? The first hasn't been measured (by users) because it is difficult to simultaneously capture the tiny EVF image, and the same image on a large external screen. You don't measure it by panning across a sheet - you measure it by snapping an image with another camera, of both the EVF and the external screen, while a stopwatch app is running on screen - there's a post about it, grabbed from a Digital Camera user forum, a few pages back.

The EVF pixel refresh rate (AKA End User "Lag") is known, it's 16ms.

The first, whatever it is, doesn't seem to affect flat range, or hunting "hits". I could see the second making you a bit slower on a timer, if you had a large swing between two targets, at close range. There's a few guys in here that own both - if they own a Timer and an Airsoft Gun, they could test this *easily*, in their back yard, or basement

Effective/total lag, that would hit a user's cornea, later than the (light speed limited) real-time analog device.

So, image output on the display, not capture or storage.

Like I said, drag them both across a repeating pattern that's the same in both with synched cameras (even better an image combiner), and measure the offset to get an idea how many milliseconds the Aurora trails.  The delay is the *very first* thing users ask about, every time, yet there's no hard data on it I've found.

ETA -so, the 16ms is how long it takes a hit on the sensor to become the first illuminated pixel upon refresh?  I do understand how the refresh rate 'tearing' can come into play as well; you'd add extra 16.7ms "max delay" to the first value, which would tell you the last pixel's delay at 60fps (and the effective latency would lie between the two)

I'm sure video gamers have clear threshold criteria for an acceptable real-time digital video image in these areas, such as refresh rate relative to field of view.  Eventually your own eyes can't track if you turn your head fast enough, but there's also a limit on how much tearing between screen refreshes can be tolerated.  "Good enough" is again somewhere in between.

Regarding the lag...

a) I blame mickdonaldson for even making this a thing.
b) You can hike, drive and shoot very effectively with it.
c) You won't want to play a first person shooter videogame through it.
d) If what you're doing is so critical that give or take 20ms is a deal breaker, then quit using the cheap toy NV camera and shell out money for actual NV.
e)
   

Hey!!!! I don't bring it up - just rebut it. I'm with you, it doesn't matter. BUT, I'm in contact with Sionyx about it, and hope to have an answer soon. The new PR/Marketing guy is leaps and bounds better than the old one.

Did you arock the old marketing guy or something. LOL.

As the Dad in 'Clueless' said: "I own a .45 and a Shovel...no one will miss you" Hahahaha!!!

Just acquired an aurora sport today.  Eventually I may get a helmet but for now its mounted on a gun.  Haven't been following this thread well.  Any tips for a newb? Settings? Lights or lasers?

Well, according to the email I just got it looks like my Pro has been pushed to the end of June at the earliest.

Is the sport recoil rated? I didn't think it was.

its not.

1-buy another one, dual's on a helmet mount are a 1000% better.
2-basic settings for a single cam, don't change anything. If you get duals there are some settings to make it better, check my settings on Etsy.com under the Adaptive mount.
3-get a Fandyfire or other $25 940nm flashlight, it greatly improves the experience.
4-laser. They are very cool, but not useful for most. If you want one, people seem to like the $300 IR Perst from ivantactical. Or get a raised red dot and use it helmet mounted shooting.
5-gun mounted is problematic due to the close eye relief.

@ThePitt

Yea, got it yesterday. Sucks, but understandable. My business supplies for production take, at most, 6 days from CA - I ordered stuff over a month ago that still aren't here here. Ah well, whatcha gonna do. Go try to find a desktop webcam on Amazon, LOL (those are *finally* starting to trickle in, however).

Official Number Of Sensor Delay Time From Sionyx

I heard back from Anthony Longo at Sionyx. He initially gave me what he recalled was the number for the sensor delay (he was wicked close), but he checked with engineering to be sure. The time it takes data to enter the sensor, and then appear on the EVF, is:

33ms

I'm not absolutely positive that you *always* have to add the 16ms Pixel Refresh time to that, but let's assume you do - that gives you a total time of 49ms. Since I never notice any true "lag" during actual use, like Shooting, or like @Pneumagger with Driving, I looked up the first thing I thought of that had a delay, but was wicked fast - the Human Eye Blinking:

University College London

100ms - 150ms is the fastest recorded blink and came from that study, others (Google) give anywhere from 100-400ms depending on fatigue state, with the average of 300ms.

So there you have it, even at 49ms, the delay is at least 2 times faster than the time it takes to blink.

The 'Motion Blur' is absolutely there, real, and apparent at fast pan/tilt speed, and I'm sure a PACT Timer would have you a bit slower with an Aurora, transitioning between two spread out targets at close range...how much would have to be tested - but this "lag time", in real world use, is way overblown IMO.

My aurora black showed up yesterday afternoon, and after dorking around with it last night and early this morning I am ...underwhelmed at its performance in my darkened house. It works great outside in my neighborhood where there is a lot of ambient light, but it absolutely dies in a dark room where my dark adjusted eyes can see pretty well unaided. It turns to really colorful noise with little to no detail. Oh, and $700 but you can't include a cheap rubber lens cap?

I will caveat that with the fact that the only experience I have with NV other than this is looking through my college roommate's PVS-14 in my darkened bathroom six or seven years ago, so my expectations might be a little unrealistic. I'm on the fence about returning it and just saving for a PVS-14.

Is there a good resource for learning how to adjust settings on this thing? The viewfinder shuts off after a few minutes until I press a button to wake it up. Is there a way to adjust the LCD brightness?

Nevermind, found the long press menu.

Someone hasn’t been filling this thread. It damn near blackout this thing sucks, but so does a pvs14.  Add IR for $25. Giggle like a school girl

Cut and paste from my original thread on my damaged Sionyx Aurora.

=====

Just an update.

As mentioned before, I was sent an RMA. Damaged camera's round trip was a little over a week. Got the repaired Aurora back and it is repaired and functioning.  

Mr. Longo's involvement obviously helped resolve this issue. We have had an ongoing chat about progress since this thread was started. He also says that an improvement in CS is part of the plan there. Will see.

lol it's 68 pages ....tl;dr

ETA: I assumed blackout meant "can't see your hand in front of your face" but I'll order a cheap IR flashlight and give it a whirl. Now that I figured out you can dim the LCD and turn off the autoshutoff on the EVP, I am less pissed at this thing.

Short version: order Fandyfire from amazon and run around with it.

Then order a helmet, rhino ii, and an @gaspain adaptive mount and have at it.

Cool, will do.

33ms oof. That is a significant amount of lag. Definitely not getting info in real time but anyone who used one already knows that.