User Panel
User Panel
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/25/2018 2:43:28 PM EDT
http://www.recoilweb.com/sionyx-night-vision-camera-at-outdoor-retailer-139870.html#ixzz5MCQW21iE
Has anybody checked these out? I've been waiting to see the digital color night vision in a form factor small enough to be head-mounted. Are we finally there? |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 12:42:15 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steamedliver: PSA. Just saw there was an update to the iOS app. In the notes it had an update to the device firmware. Gonna look at it tonight. |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 2:55:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: Holosun makes $112 polymer body single lasers in red, IR, and green. They make $170 Titanium body single lasers in red, IR, and green. They make $200 polymer body dual lasers in Red/IR They make $260 Titanium body dual lasers in Red/IR No Green/IR combo. They range in price from $112 to $250 depending on features. Low Profile and good looking. Works on ARs or Pistols. Holosun makes good stuff and stands behind it. http://www.holosun.com/uploads/20200103/ccf2ab755eae9c2bd5016026c75b6d77.jpg |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 3:19:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TanklessPro]
[#3]
I picked up a Kota ACH helmet in black. I'm think about cerakoting it with air cure in tan but I'm also considering a helmet cover, maybe both. I have Sionyz duals with an eBay L4G24 and MACHOS bridge but I need a counter weight. I have ordered the Anker battery and cables.
What is the best helmet cover and battery pouch? Will I need weights with duals? Also, I'm thinking of getting the 4D replacement pads. Seem to be the best? Suggestion on chin strap replacement? |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 3:32:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: slappomatt]
[#4]
the default is the $25 ebay H-nape. its linked here a few pages back I believe.
I missed the memo on the 15000mah battery bank and got a cheap 10000 battery. I also have a 1/4" thick piece of copper the same size as the battery bank wedged in there and its still not quite enough. I doubt the 15000mah battery bank alone is enough but its a start for sure. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2020 5:32:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I cannot get through 60 pages on this thread so will simply ask; get one or spend more on a PVS14? Is this merely a cheaper way to play NV airsoft it is it legit for hunting/scouting purposes? My question isn’t meant to be offensive, I actually have no clue and the last few pages of the thread seem more devoted to helmet setups than the optic.
I have a set of PVS7’s so mainly want something for an AR. Please advise. Thanks |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 5:46:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Try it before you buy it would be my suggestion. I'd be more than happy to ship someone that's on the fence my Sport as long as they pay shipping both ways.
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2020 6:05:31 PM EDT
[#7]
That is very generous of you and I’d jump on that it in a minute! However, the pricing goes up in a couple days so opinions are important. If I hear enough positive, I can get one and see how it goes. If I hate it, I suppose I can get most of my money back on EE. I contacted them about a disabled veterans discount and they directed me to the website. Problem is, I need to send my DD214 or other supporting paperwork and my office has been dismantled for renovation; hope to get it in Tuesday.
So, go or no go? The videos on YouTube seem pretty impressive. Again, I want to mount on an AR.....can it handle .308? |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 6:07:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clubmanager1: That is very generous of you and I'd jump on that it in a minute! However, the pricing goes up in a couple days so opinions are important. If I hear enough positive, I can get one and see how it goes. If I hate it, I suppose I can get most of my money back on EE. I contacted them about a disabled veterans discount and they directed me to the website. Problem is, I need to send my DD214 or other supporting paperwork and my office has been dismantled for renovation; hope to get it in Tuesday. So, go or no go? The videos on YouTube seem pretty impressive. Again, I want to mount on an AR.....can it handle .308? |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2020 6:38:02 PM EDT
[#9]
No, I’m in NWA.....sad about Jonesboro but as one of my club members pointed out, if it weren’t for the corona virus, a lot of people would have died.
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Posted: 3/29/2020 7:56:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TanklessPro: I picked up a Kota ACH helmet in black. I'm think about cerakoting it with air cure in tan but I'm also considering a helmet cover, maybe both. I have Sionyz duals with an eBay L4G24 and MACHOS bridge but I need a counter weight. I have ordered the Anker battery and cables. What is the best helmet cover and battery pouch? Will I need weights with duals? Also, I'm thinking of getting the 4D replacement pads. Seem to be the best? Suggestion on chin strap replacement? @TanklessPro These covers were suggested earlier. I also picked up a black Kota and also one of the 15,000mAh battery packs. Did you get a real high end L4G24, or one of the $75 knockoffs? I have a FAST bridge on order from the UK... |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 7:57:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: slappomatt]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clubmanager1: I cannot get through 60 pages on this thread so will simply ask; get one or spend more on a PVS14? Is this merely a cheaper way to play NV airsoft it is it legit for hunting/scouting purposes? My question isn't meant to be offensive, I actually have no clue and the last few pages of the thread seem more devoted to helmet setups than the optic. I have a set of PVS7's so mainly want something for an AR. Please advise. Thanks ETA this post sums it up pretty well. its meh but useable passive but outstanding with IR link to post on page 54 |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 8:03:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PointBlank82: @TanklessPro These covers were suggested earlier. I also picked up a black Kota and also one of the 15,000mAh battery packs. Did you get a real high end L4G24, or one of the $75 knockoffs? I have a FAST bridge on order from the UK... I got the knockoff, as far as I can tell its GTG. It even is stamped "Wilcox". If I have problems with it I will get a real one. |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 8:40:43 PM EDT
[#13]
4D Tactical Pads
Gentex H-nape Kota Helmet -------------------------- real RHNO II w/ dovetail adapter or High-end L4G24 knock-off (eBay - seller is specwarfare2017) --------------------- Lion's Gear FAST (rockeybrass.com is in USA) or Gaspain's bridge mount (kiloohm on Etsy) or Lion's Gear M.A.C.H.O.S. or SOTAC Wilcox Type Bino-Bridge SM-2 Mount (eBay - seller is specwarfare2017) w/ FLIR RECON M24 Shoe(s) |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 8:56:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks man!
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Posted: 3/29/2020 9:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Maverick52]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clubmanager1: I cannot get through 60 pages on this thread so will simply ask; get one or spend more on a PVS14? Is this merely a cheaper way to play NV airsoft it is it legit for hunting/scouting purposes? My question isn’t meant to be offensive, I actually have no clue and the last few pages of the thread seem more devoted to helmet setups than the optic. I have a set of PVS7’s so mainly want something for an AR. Please advise. Thanks You want to weapon mount it? I personally haven't used it that way but from what has been said here that seems like a good way to be disappointed. You would also need the OG or the Pro for it to be weapon rated, and they're only rated for 5.56mm. As someone else mentioned, these can be used passively to a point, but more than likely you will need IR in anything except optimal conditions. If you're planning to use IR and have it weapon mounted as a "clip on" then it might make more sense to use a dedicated digital NV scope. You'll need IR more than the Sionyx would, but it'll be an actual scope with recoil rating and etc. Most of the dedicated digital NV scopes also function in daylight. Seeing as the price is going up, if you bought now and decided you didn't like it then I would imagine you could get your money back fairly easy. |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 11:06:27 PM EDT
[#16]
I currently have a sionyx helmet mounted on a Lion's fast mount
Looking to buy a pvs-14, can I mount the 14 to the Lion's Fast mount? I believe they use the same mounting screw. Didn't see an answer cruising through the thread. |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 11:17:35 PM EDT
[#17]
I would spend the coin on a dedicated J arm. I think the 14 MIGHT work but the pvs is heavier than the sionyx and the fast mount is anything but light. save the weight and get something made for it would be my recommendation.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2020 11:29:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pheenixm]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clubmanager1: I cannot get through 60 pages on this thread so will simply ask; get one or spend more on a PVS14? Is this merely a cheaper way to play NV airsoft it is it legit for hunting/scouting purposes? My question isn’t meant to be offensive, I actually have no clue and the last few pages of the thread seem more devoted to helmet setups than the optic. I have a set of PVS7’s so mainly want something for an AR. Please advise. Thanks If you're planning on hunting, that is very much going to depend on your range and whether you're okay with a unit that only works half the time. The last two times I went hunting, the moon was rising late; I've got a PVS-14 (L3 filmless) and I still had difficulty seeing down some areas without using a high-end illuminator. In thicker brush, my filmless performed to perfection, even without any ambient light whatsoever; in those conditions, my illuminator proved more hindrance than help, as the contrast ratio actually made everything not being illuminated directly (thick bushes) impossible to see. So with the illuminator, my effective range was actually decreased. If you're hunting fields only on clear and well-lit nights, the Sionyx will do it for you. Not generally as well as a PVS-14 (and CERTAINLY not better), but it'll do the job. You will have to be okay with consistently scanning fields with an IR illum on poorly-lit nights, and having limited visibility tramping through the brush Otherwise, my advice is to save your money and ignore the folks in here who think the Sionyx is better than Gen 3. They're wrong |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 11:48:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pheenixm: If you're planning on hunting, that is very much going to depend on your range and whether you're okay with a unit that only works half the time. The last two times I went hunting, the moon was rising late; I've got a PVS-14 (L3 filmless) and I still had difficulty seeing down some areas without using a high-end illuminator. In thicker brush, my filmless performed to perfection, even without any ambient light whatsoever; in those conditions, my illuminator proved more hindrance than help, as the contrast ratio actually made everything not being illuminated directly (thick bushes) impossible to see. So with the illuminator, my effective range was actually decreased. If you're hunting fields only on clear and well-lit nights, the Sionyx will do it for you. Not generally as well as a PVS-14 (and CERTAINLY not better), but it'll do the job. You will have to be okay with consistently scanning fields with an IR illum on poorly-lit nights, and having limited visibility tramping through the brush Otherwise, my advice is to save your money and ignore the folks in here who think the Sionyx is better than Gen 3. They're wrong If you are you have never handled much less used an Aurora yet chime in with your expert advice. If I'm mistaking you with someone else my apologies. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 12:01:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slappomatt: the long and short of it is, passively its similar to an average Gen 2 unit, but color, and WITH IR illumination its very good resolution wise. close to if not better than gen 3. but with IR you lose most of the color making it similar to a white phosphorous tube. ETA this post sums it up pretty well. its meh but useable passive but outstanding with IR link to post on page 54 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slappomatt: Originally Posted By clubmanager1: I cannot get through 60 pages on this thread so will simply ask; get one or spend more on a PVS14? Is this merely a cheaper way to play NV airsoft it is it legit for hunting/scouting purposes? My question isn't meant to be offensive, I actually have no clue and the last few pages of the thread seem more devoted to helmet setups than the optic. I have a set of PVS7's so mainly want something for an AR. Please advise. Thanks ETA this post sums it up pretty well. its meh but useable passive but outstanding with IR link to post on page 54 I strongly disagree. The Aurora is a very strong performer for the price, and I like mine but lets not get ahead of ourselves. if you run the math on the Aurora's resolution and sensor size to convert it to a lp/mm equivalency, it's nowhere near a gen3 64-72 lpmm tube specs. It just isn't. I've looked a USAF resolving chart with both units side by side in various conditions with and without illumination at about 10ft distance and a Gen3 tube is notably better in every condition. My gen3 generally resolves one whole "group" better than my aurora on a USAF 1951 resolving power chart. This would agree with the numerical lpmm conversion and comparisons. The aurora lpmm equivalency puts it's resolution in the older gen2 arena. Which is still not bad considering an aurora is 1/4th the cost of a gen2 unit and sees color. So I'm not ragging on the Aurora - it's just physics. Now, one unique advantage the Aurora has over a Gen3 tube is the wavelengths its sensitive to. The Aurora loves longer wavelengths than ITTs. This is why it does so well outdoors especially within an hour or two post-sunset and pre-dawn... "skyglow" has alot wavelengths that traditional ITTs miss out on. ITTs generally love 800-900nm and fall off hard around 950nm. The literature on Black Silicon sensor technology (ie: the SiOnyx Aurora) says it has excellent sensitivity out into the 1200nm range. This means using an inexpensive 980nm laser or LED illuminator that is nearly undetectable to a gen3 ITT. So the Aurora can see standard mil illumination (typically circa 850nm) AND it can see bands that typical mil units do not. So in a very dark environment where even a gen3 is struggling to see passively, the aurora can pop on a 980nm illuminator and see clear as day and it would still be nearly passive to the gen3 units. That's pretty cool. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 8:53:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Johnny_C]
[#21]
I agree with Pneumaggers post 100%.
So the short question is, are there any 980 nm lights available? I know some guys were working on some light mods. Lights above the 14's range would make these camera's something really special really quick. Edit. I found this. Short suggested duty cycle. Focusable 980nm IR Infra-Red Laser Pointer/Pen Torch Type Flashlight Here's another one. Pricey but it has a note that it can be see by Gen 3 devices. i guess this gets back to the discussion about lack of good QC/tech allowing these lights to dip back down into the 800 nm range. Infrared 980nm Laser Torch 3W 3000mW IR Pointer Flashlight Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: I strongly disagree. The Aurora is a very strong performer for the price, and I like mine but lets not get ahead of ourselves. if you run the math on the Aurora's resolution and sensor size to convert it to a lp/mm equivalency, it's nowhere near a gen3 64-72 lpmm tube specs. It just isn't. I've looked a USAF resolving chart with both units side by side in various conditions with and without illumination at about 10ft distance and a Gen3 tube is notably better in every condition. My gen3 generally resolves one whole "group" better than my aurora on a USAF 1951 resolving power chart. This would agree with the numerical lpmm conversion and comparisons. The aurora lpmm equivalency puts it's resolution in the older gen2 arena. Which is still not bad considering an aurora is 1/4th the cost of a gen2 unit and sees color. So I'm not ragging on the Aurora - it's just physics. Now, one unique advantage the Aurora has over a Gen3 tube is the wavelengths its sensitive to. The Aurora loves longer wavelengths than ITTs. This is why it does so well outdoors especially within an hour or two post-sunset and pre-dawn... "skyglow" has alot wavelengths that traditional ITTs miss out on. ITTs generally love 800-900nm and fall off hard around 950nm. The literature on Black Silicon sensor technology (ie: the SiOnyx Aurora) says it has excellent sensitivity out into the 1200nm range. This means using an inexpensive 980nm laser or LED illuminator that is nearly undetectable to a gen3 ITT. So the Aurora can see standard mil illumination (typically circa 850nm) AND it can see bands that typical mil units do not. So in a very dark environment where even a gen3 is struggling to see passively, the aurora can pop on a 980nm illuminator and see clear as day and it would still be "passive" to the gen3 units. That's pretty cool. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 10:19:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Johnny_C: I agree with Pneumaggers post 100%. So the short question is, are there any 980 nm lights available? I know some guys were working on some light mods. Lights above the 14's range would make these camera's something really special really quick. Edit. I found this. Short suggested duty cycle. Focusable 980nm IR Infra-Red Laser Pointer/Pen Torch Type Flashlight Here's another one. Pricey but it has a note that it can be see by Gen 3 devices. i guess this gets back to the discussion about lack of good QC/tech allowing these lights to dip back down into the 800 nm range. Infrared 980nm Laser Torch 3W 3000mW IR Pointer Flashlight I agree a laser/illuminator that Gen 3 NV is blind to would be a game changer for Sionyx. For $30, the first one you’d linked seems like it falls firmly into the “worth a shot” category. Would be interesting to hear if someone tests one out. Only issue I see is that it ships from Wuhan  .
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 11:09:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pheenixm]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mpatch: Aren't you the same guy from a few pages ago? If you are you have never handled much less used an Aurora yet chime in with your expert advice. If I'm mistaking you with someone else my apologies. You are correct, I haven't personally used an Aurora; however, I have extensively used a PVS-14. This man is asking about PVS-14 vs. Aurora; having heard descriptions of Auroras from many of you fine folks, I feel that I'm qualified to detail what they can and cannot do. According to the vast majority of you, they are, at best, on a similar level to the PVS-14 with ideal illumination. Most of you have also agreed that they never surpass the PVS-14; I've actually seen quite a bit of indignancy in the past for claiming that people believe they can beat PVS-14's. Well here is your evidence, some of you actually think that. I know how IR light behaves in dense foliage, and I know more about using high-performance night vision than many of the folks in this thread. If the man wants to know how passive can often be superior to active, I'm going to inform him, because most of yall likely have no clue what I'm talking about, having never used the high-performance stuff. When you shine an IR illuminator with bushes near you, the illuminator will light up those bushes, but it won't light up what is behind them, because the amount of light being reflected back by the bushes will be far higher than the light reaching the background; such is the inherent failing of direct illumination. With a high-quality filmless tube, like what I have, you can see the woods behind the bushes just fine, thanks to the passive diffuse illumination provided by starlight. So if you want to start up a flame war again and get the thread banned, be my guest. I'm here to discuss technical specifications and make sure that new users get good advice. Do you disagree with anything I've said about the Sionyx? Is any of what I've claimed wrong? Because otherwise, I really don't see what grounds you have to take issue with my posts. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 11:25:24 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clubmanager1: That is very generous of you and I’d jump on that it in a minute! However, the pricing goes up in a couple days so opinions are important. Get it off Amazon (which is usually through B&H or Adorama) - keep everything pristine and try it out. If you don't like it, box it up perfectly and do an Amazon Return. As soon as it gets scanned at the UPS Store or Kohls - you'll have your money back. Bottom line is - unassisted with no IR, it is really good down to about half moon or sub/urban areas with same light level. If you go into thick brush even with a good moon, you will need IR though. Under a Half moon, down to zero, it sucks more, and more. But once you turn on IR, you are back to a 1024p HD Image. IR is the equalizer for digital. So you have to decide if you can use it when needed. Flat Range doesn't care, Animals don't care, anybody/thing that doesn't also have night vision - doesn't care. Airsoft will get you shot using IR, Fantasy land Civil War 2.0 will get you shot using IR, and you can't train alongside Analog Gen3, because they don't want to see IR splashing all around if you need it. Pretty much it. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 12:14:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: Holosun makes $112 polymer body single lasers in red, IR, and green. They make $170 Titanium body single lasers in red, IR, and green. They make $200 polymer body dual lasers in Red/IR They make $260 Titanium body dual lasers in Red/IR No Green/IR combo. They range in price from $112 to $250 depending on features. Low Profile and good looking. Works on ARs or Pistols. Holosun makes good stuff and stands behind it. http://www.holosun.com/uploads/20200103/ccf2ab755eae9c2bd5016026c75b6d77.jpg Link where it can actually be bought??? |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 12:14:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Advance]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: Get it off Amazon (which is usually through B&H or Adorama) - keep everything pristine and try it out. If you don't like it, box it up perfectly and do an Amazon Return. As soon as it gets scanned at the UPS Store or Kohls - you'll have your money back. Bottom line is - unassisted with no IR, it is really good down to about half moon or sub/urban areas with same light level. If you go into thick brush even with a good moon, you will need IR though. Under a Half moon, down to zero, it sucks more, and more. But once you turn on IR, you are back to a 1024p HD Image. IR is the equalizer for digital. So you have to decide if you can use it when needed. Flat Range doesn't care, Animals don't care, anybody/thing that doesn't also have night vision - doesn't care. Airsoft will get you shot using IR, Fantasy land Civil War 2.0 will get you shot using IR, and you can't train alongside Analog Gen3, because they don't want to see IR splashing all around if you need it. Pretty much it. One correction and one observation.... - The Aurora only goes up to 720p. - The Aurora has lag. Nobody likes to talk about it but for use in a life of death situation? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 12:50:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mickdonaldson]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42: One correction and one observation.... - The Aurora only goes up to 720p. - The Aurora has lag. Nobody likes to talk about it but for use in a life of death situation? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42: One correction and one observation.... - The Aurora only goes up to 720p. - The Aurora has lag. Nobody likes to talk about it but for use in a life of death situation? The Image Sensor outputs a 1024p signal to the EVF. The compression chip compresses the picture or videos down to 720p. This is why every single user says what they *see* is better than what they captured of the same event. See: XQE-1310 Sensor 1.3MP | SXGA |1280 x 1024 pixels| 1″ optical format Extreme Low-light Laser Targeting Here: XQE-1310 There is no lag if EIS is off. What the layman calls "lag", is actually the pixel refresh rate of the EVF. It is at 16ms. That *is* less than desirable (gaming monitors are as low as 2ms, and the worst HDTV is about 10ms) - up to the user to decide if it's a deal breaker. The closer the object being viewed, combined with a faster left to right or right to left "pan" - is where it appears most. If there was lag, as you looked at your fingers "pinching" through the device, you would feel them touch, before seeing them touch - I haven't been able to make that happen yet. I'd use mine in the fantasy "life or death" scenario - I've shot with it at a NV course that had a lot of dynamic movement and wasn't better or worse than anybody else. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 1:11:36 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: The Image Sensor outputs a 1024p signal to the EVF. The compression chip compresses the picture or videos down to 720p. This is why every single user says what they *see* is better than what they captured of the same event. See: Here: XQE-1310 There is no lag if EIS is off. What the layman calls "lag", is actually the pixel refresh rate of the EVF. It is at 16ms. That *is* less than desirable (gaming monitors are as low as 2ms, and the worst HDTV is about 10ms) - up to the user to decide if it's a deal breaker. The closer the object being viewed, combined with a faster left to right or right to left "pan" - is where it appears most. If there was lag, as you looked at your fingers "pinching" through the device, you would feel them touch, before seeing them touch - I haven't been able to make that happen yet. I'd use mine in the fantasy "life or death" scenario - I've shot with it at a NV course that had a lot of dynamic movement and wasn't better or worse than anybody else. Thanks for the info on 720p vs 1080p. As for the lag issue, I am on my second and third Aurora. With EIS OFF, and regardless of what the correct scientific definition happens to be...The end user experiences lag. You move your head quickly (scanning across the horizon) and what you are seeing does not in any way, shape or form match with what you would see in a zero lag system. I like the Aurora and I am not trying to put it down. I think the next few revisions (both HW and SW) will be able to address some of this. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 1:23:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Johnny_C: I agree with Pneumaggers post 100%. So the short question is, are there any 980 nm lights available? I know some guys were working on some light mods. Lights above the 14's range would make these camera's something really special really quick. Edit. I found this. Short suggested duty cycle. Focusable 980nm IR Infra-Red Laser Pointer/Pen Torch Type Flashlight Here's another one. Pricey but it has a note that it can be see by Gen 3 devices. i guess this gets back to the discussion about lack of good QC/tech allowing these lights to dip back down into the 800 nm range. Infrared 980nm Laser Torch 3W 3000mW IR Pointer Flashlight I purchased this one end of last year: 980nm Infrared Focusable Laser Pointer 980T-200 IR LED Battery Torch Flashlight https://www.ebay.com/itm/980nm-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Pointer-980T-200-IR-LED-Battery-Torch-Flashlight/132984167366?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 It works. I can see it through the Sionyx. I don't have any other NV so I don't know if it is viewable with other stuff. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 1:27:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mickdonaldson]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42: Thanks for the info on 720p vs 1080p. As for the lag issue, I am on my second and third Aurora. With EIS OFF, and regardless of what the correct scientific definition happens to be...The end user experiences lag. You move your head quickly (scanning across the horizon) and what you are seeing does not in any way, shape or form match with what you would see in a zero lag system. I like the Aurora and I am not trying to put it down. I think the next few revisions (both HW and SW) will be able to address some of this. And again, that's not lag. It's the pxel refresh rate, layman term - "Motion Blur". It happened on the very first consumer LCD monitors too - scroll fast down a web page and the letters blurred. Go into your closet, focus on your outstretched hand, and pinch your fingers. Tell me if they touch (by feel) while they are still apart (what you see). That would be lag. I know exactly what you are talking about, but it's not lag - lag would cause you to miss targets while moving - haven't had that happen. If you want to say "waiting for the image to not be blured after I stop panning is lag"...ok, but lag is literally "something happened in real life, that hasn't happened yet in the EVF". |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 1:39:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PointBlank82]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EarlyStarts: I purchased this one end of last year: 980nm Infrared Focusable Laser Pointer 980T-200 IR LED Battery Torch Flashlight https://www.ebay.com/itm/980nm-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Pointer-980T-200-IR-LED-Battery-Torch-Flashlight/132984167366?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 It works. I can see it through the Sionyx. I don't have any other NV so I don't know if it is viewable with other stuff. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EarlyStarts: Originally Posted By Johnny_C: I agree with Pneumaggers post 100%. So the short question is, are there any 980 nm lights available? I know some guys were working on some light mods. Lights above the 14's range would make these camera's something really special really quick. Edit. I found this. Short suggested duty cycle. Focusable 980nm IR Infra-Red Laser Pointer/Pen Torch Type Flashlight Here's another one. Pricey but it has a note that it can be see by Gen 3 devices. i guess this gets back to the discussion about lack of good QC/tech allowing these lights to dip back down into the 800 nm range. Infrared 980nm Laser Torch 3W 3000mW IR Pointer Flashlight I purchased this one end of last year: 980nm Infrared Focusable Laser Pointer 980T-200 IR LED Battery Torch Flashlight https://www.ebay.com/itm/980nm-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Pointer-980T-200-IR-LED-Battery-Torch-Flashlight/132984167366?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 It works. I can see it through the Sionyx. I don't have any other NV so I don't know if it is viewable with other stuff. Same seller has a "water proof" version for a little more... https://www.ebay.com/itm/980nm-IR-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Pointer-Waterproof-Torch-980T-100-18650-w-Box/132577270865?hash=item1ede389c51:g:-5cAAOSwQVpazYNo This movie scene comes to mind...   Failed To Load Title Here's a wavelength chart for PVS-14 I found from a CG manual online:  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 2:47:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Advance]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: And again, that's not lag. It's the pxel refresh rate, layman term - "Motion Blur". It happened on the very first consumer LCD monitors too - scroll fast down a web page and the letters blurred. Go into your closet, focus on your outstretched hand, and pinch your fingers. Tell me if they touch (by feel) while they are still apart (what you see). That would be lag. I know exactly what you are talking about, but it's not lag - lag would cause you to miss targets while moving - haven't had that happen. If you want to say "waiting for the image to not be blured after I stop panning is lag"...ok, but lag is literally "something happened in real life, that hasn't happened yet in the EVF". And again.... Re-read my earlier post. When my head turns to point "A", the screen is not showing point "A" in real time. No amount of fluffy words will change that. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 2:53:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trash_Panda: Link where it can actually be bought??? @Trash_Panda on the holosun website directly? |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 2:57:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: slappomatt]
[#34]
It's really funny watching each side argue against the other. Sure Gen 3 is better for battle use, but then most guys actually at war have it. This is a thread for weekend warriors to talk about a new device that gets us pretty close for about an 1/8 the cost.
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USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 3:18:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PFran42: And again.... Re-read my earlier post. When my head turns to point "A", the screen is not showing point "A" in real time. No amount of fluffy words will change that. I just went into my "test closet" and closed the solid French Doors. Since it's daytime, there was a nice line of light where the doors met, both visible to the naked eye, and obviously through the Auroras. I spun in a constant circle, fast enough to make me a little dizzy. As expected, the EVF was motion blurred, but every time I passed that "Light Line" it appeared in the EVF at the same time my naked eye saw by looking around/under the binos. No "fluffy words", just accurate data. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 3:20:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#36]
Originally Posted By Johnny_C: I agree with Pneumaggers post 100%. So the short question is, are there any 980 nm lights available? I know some guys were working on some light mods. Lights above the 14's range would make these camera's something really special really quick. Edit. I found this. Short suggested duty cycle. Focusable 980nm IR Infra-Red Laser Pointer/Pen Torch Type Flashlight Here's another one. Pricey but it has a note that it can be see by Gen 3 devices. i guess this gets back to the discussion about lack of good QC/tech allowing these lights to dip back down into the 800 nm range. Infrared 980nm Laser Torch 3W 3000mW IR Pointer Flashlight Originally Posted By CheckYourself: I agree a laser/illuminator that Gen 3 NV is blind to would be a game changer for Sionyx. For $30, the first one you’d linked seems like it falls firmly into the “worth a shot” category. Would be interesting to hear if someone tests one out. Only issue I see is that it ships from Wuhan .Be sure to get 980nm LASER based light source. An LED light source has a whole lot of bleed from the peak frequency and the gen 3 will still see it. This is because LEDs have a baroader spectrum of light output and lasers have a very narrow spectral output. Even cheap chinesium LDs only have about 5-10nm of wavelength spread. If you go with LED, try some of those 1050nm LED output diodes. That might be high enough peak wavelength to avoid significant output below 950nm. As an example, I have a 30mW 980nm laser I bought for like $12. Not 0.5mW or 0.7mW (like many IR Laser sights), not 5mW (Class IIIa eye-safe limit) ... but 30mW. With my naked eye I can't see any pink/purple glow looking at the aperture from the side and I can't see the dot at all either... which is the point. Looking through the aurora, the dot blooms out crazy big and lights up a whole portion of that room and you can see the beam. I could probably dial the laser power back 10X and it would still be too bright for "aiming". Cool, the aurora can see the 980nm laser REALLY REALLY good. Looking through my Gen3? Barely visible dot considering it's 50-100X more powerful than a 0.7/0.3mW typical IR "aiming" laser. No way it would ever see an appropriate <1mW aiming beam. And there's no way the Gen3 would see even a very power 980nm illuminator once the beam diverges into a diffuse cone of light. Looking directly at the 30mW emitter aperture from across the room with the Gen3 you CAN see a dot of light, but again, not crazy bright like when 850nm lasers or 940nm LED sources stick out like a sore thumb when you look for them. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 3:31:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: Be sure to get 980nm LASER based light source. An LED light source has a whole lot of bleed from the peak frequency and the gen 3 will still see it. I would expect a 980nm LED light source to ouput significantly even below 950nm. Even cheap chinesium LDs only have abotu 5-10nm of wavelength spread. If you go with LED, get some of those 1050nm LED output diodes. That might b high enough to avoid significant output below 950nm. As an example, I have a 30mW 980nm laser I bought for like $12. Not 0.5mW or 0.7mW (like many IR Laser sights), not 5mW (Class IIIa eye-safe limit) ... but 30mW. With my naked eye I can't see any pink/purple glow looking at the aperture from the side and I can't see the dot at all either... which is the point. Looking through the aurora, the dot blooms out crazy big and lights up a whole portion of that room and you can see the beam. I could probably dial the laser power back 10X and it would still be too bright for "aiming". Cool, the aurora can see the 980nm laser REALLY REALLY good. Looking through my Gen3? Nothing visible of the dot looking at the wall from across the room. If I walk up to the wall and "stare" at the dot I can kind of see a faint fuzzy dot on the wall. It's dim and I'm inches away and I need to be looking for it to even almost kind of see it... and this is a 50X more powerful beam than a typical IR "aiming" laser. No way it would ever see an appropriate <1mW aiming beam. And there's no way the Gen3 would see even a very power 980nm illuminator once the beam diverges into a cone of light. Looking directly at the 30mW emitter aperture from across the room with the Gen3 you can see a dot of light, but again, not crazy bright or something you'd notice more than a few dozen yards away. Although if it were a 300-500mW "illuminator" the gen 3 would likely see a point of light at the emitter, too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: Originally Posted By Johnny_C: I agree with Pneumaggers post 100%. So the short question is, are there any 980 nm lights available? I know some guys were working on some light mods. Lights above the 14's range would make these camera's something really special really quick. Edit. I found this. Short suggested duty cycle. Focusable 980nm IR Infra-Red Laser Pointer/Pen Torch Type Flashlight Here's another one. Pricey but it has a note that it can be see by Gen 3 devices. i guess this gets back to the discussion about lack of good QC/tech allowing these lights to dip back down into the 800 nm range. Infrared 980nm Laser Torch 3W 3000mW IR Pointer Flashlight Originally Posted By CheckYourself: I agree a laser/illuminator that Gen 3 NV is blind to would be a game changer for Sionyx. For $30, the first one you’d linked seems like it falls firmly into the “worth a shot” category. Would be interesting to hear if someone tests one out. Only issue I see is that it ships from Wuhan .Be sure to get 980nm LASER based light source. An LED light source has a whole lot of bleed from the peak frequency and the gen 3 will still see it. I would expect a 980nm LED light source to ouput significantly even below 950nm. Even cheap chinesium LDs only have abotu 5-10nm of wavelength spread. If you go with LED, get some of those 1050nm LED output diodes. That might b high enough to avoid significant output below 950nm. As an example, I have a 30mW 980nm laser I bought for like $12. Not 0.5mW or 0.7mW (like many IR Laser sights), not 5mW (Class IIIa eye-safe limit) ... but 30mW. With my naked eye I can't see any pink/purple glow looking at the aperture from the side and I can't see the dot at all either... which is the point. Looking through the aurora, the dot blooms out crazy big and lights up a whole portion of that room and you can see the beam. I could probably dial the laser power back 10X and it would still be too bright for "aiming". Cool, the aurora can see the 980nm laser REALLY REALLY good. Looking through my Gen3? Nothing visible of the dot looking at the wall from across the room. If I walk up to the wall and "stare" at the dot I can kind of see a faint fuzzy dot on the wall. It's dim and I'm inches away and I need to be looking for it to even almost kind of see it... and this is a 50X more powerful beam than a typical IR "aiming" laser. No way it would ever see an appropriate <1mW aiming beam. And there's no way the Gen3 would see even a very power 980nm illuminator once the beam diverges into a cone of light. Looking directly at the 30mW emitter aperture from across the room with the Gen3 you can see a dot of light, but again, not crazy bright or something you'd notice more than a few dozen yards away. Although if it were a 300-500mW "illuminator" the gen 3 would likely see a point of light at the emitter, too. Be careful guys, I tried to buy a 940nm pocket flashlight from Ebay and it was flagged as an ITAR restricted item shipping from China. There's PLENTY of international sellers of the 940nm devices, but I had no luck finding a flashlight/illuminator from a domestic supplier. I did pickup a 980nm Weapon Laser for $125 made by "Laser Defense MFG". Not sure if they're still in business and will let you all know how this looks when it arrives. No ITAR issues, its from PA. Will be returning the amazon laser that hasn't arrived yet. http://www.laserdefensemfg.com/ld-20mw-ir.html https://www.ebay.com/itm/LDM-Infrared-Laser-980nm-Night-Vision-IR-Laser-Slim-Line-Long-Range-Mil-Spec/303460078549?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 |
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USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 3:35:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slappomatt: It's really funny watching each side argue against the other. Sure Gen 3 is better for battle use, but then most guys actually at war have it. This is a thread for weekend warriors to talk about a new device that gets us pretty close for about an 1/8 the cost. If you were including me, mine has nothing to do with analog - its a technical aspect of the technology that gets mis-labeled, and then you get the new guys coming in and going "...but I heard there was lag?" Here's another test I just thought of that I haven't done yet, but I know what the result will be: Do the "pinch test" *while* spinning in a circle - that would certainly tell if there was "lag". Are your fingers still open on-screen, but you feel them touch in real life? Edit: Just did that one too - no lag - fingers were focused, background was blurry. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 3:49:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#39]
I've driven around in my car on roads with my aurora. no problem. I'm confident I could hunt with it and shoot anything besides a sprinting animal... which would be unethical to shoot at even in daylight. The lag with the image stabilization off is so slight you have try to notice it. It's a nothingburger.
If you're in a high speed low drag situation where 12ms of refresh is going to get you killed... why the hell did you bring a Sionyx Aurora? Did you bring a $150 Walmart Maverick 88 shotgun, too? LOL. |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2020 3:53:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: If you were including me, mine has nothing to do with analog - its a technical aspect of the technology that gets mis-labeled, and then you get the new guys coming in and going "...but I heard there was lag?" Here's another test I just thought of that I haven't done yet, but I know what the result will be: Do the "pinch test" *while* spinning in a circle - that would certainly tell if there was "lag". Are your fingers still open on-screen, but you feel them touch in real life? Edit: Just did that one too - no lag - fingers were focused, background was blurry. I come in here everyday hoping to see a new Pro video out or something. Nope. Just mickdonaldson telling people if they go spin in a circle while snapping their fingers their Aurora won't lag anymore lol. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 5:52:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mickdonaldson: And again, that's not lag. It's the pxel refresh rate, layman term - "Motion Blur". It happened on the very first consumer LCD monitors too - scroll fast down a web page and the letters blurred. Go into your closet, focus on your outstretched hand, and pinch your fingers. Tell me if they touch (by feel) while they are still apart (what you see). That would be lag. I know exactly what you are talking about, but it's not lag - lag would cause you to miss targets while moving - haven't had that happen. If you want to say "waiting for the image to not be blured after I stop panning is lag"...ok, but lag is literally "something happened in real life, that hasn't happened yet in the EVF". FWIW, I don’t think the issue being tied to the EVF refresh rate is accurate. I saw an interview with Sionyx at SHOT. The company rep was asked about the lag/blur. He said they could get it to zero. IIRC, the current hardware basically routes the image data through the recording processor and then to the EVF. Which results in the perceived lag/blur. He said they could instead run two “lines”. One to the recording processor. And one directly to the EVF. Which would reduce any lag/blur to an imperceptible amount. He made it sound easy. So, unless it’s incredibly cost prohibitive, I won’t be surprised if that’s a feature in future models. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 10:15:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: I've driven around in my car on roads with my aurora. no problem. I'm confident I could hunt with it and shoot anything besides a sprinting animal... which would be unethical to shoot at even in daylight. The lag with the image stabilization off is so slight you have try to notice it. It's a nothingburger. If you're in a high speed low drag situation where 12ms of refresh is going to get you killed... why the hell did you bring a Sionyx Aurora? Did you bring a $150 Walmart Maverick 88 shotgun, too? LOL.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/31/2020 2:57:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Seeing as the price is going up, I did what any good arfcommer would do and made irresponsible financial decisions.
 Attached FileI'm really happy with what it is for the price. Especially being my first time running any kind of night vision. I am having a bit of a hard time getting it "aligned" right. It seems like no matter how I fiddle with it, I can't quite get the images from both eyes to line up. What am I doing wrong here? Do I need to just keep playing with it little by little? Is it related to wearing eyeglasses? Help, I wanna do hoodrat shit in the woods |
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USA
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Posted: 3/31/2020 7:55:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MainePure: I come in here everyday hoping to see a new Pro video out or something. Nope. Just mickdonaldson telling people if they go spin in a circle while snapping their fingers their Aurora won't lag anymore lol. It's funny, I've never seen anyone post "You're wrong Mick, my fingers definitely were touching while I saw them open on the EVF" - it's amazing. Maybe I'm the only guy that has shot live fire Box drills, or did live fire buddy movement to contact drills with Auroras? Maybe my tech background makes what's going on in these areas, easier to understand? If you do what I do to test, I'd be amazed if you get a different result. But maybe my units were made on a Tuesday, and yours on a Friday? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/31/2020 8:14:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mickdonaldson]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CheckYourself: FWIW, I don’t think the issue being tied to the EVF refresh rate is accurate. I saw an interview with Sionyx at SHOT. The company rep was asked about the lag/blur. He said they could get it to zero. IIRC, the current hardware basically routes the image data through the recording processor and then to the EVF. Which results in the perceived lag/blur. He said they could instead run two “lines”. One to the recording processor. And one directly to the EVF. Which would reduce any lag/blur to an imperceptible amount. He made it sound easy. So, unless it’s incredibly cost prohibitive, I won’t be surprised if that’s a feature in future models. Well, I've worked Trade Shows (IITSEC, ILEETA, IACP, etc...). We brought a crap ton of sales guys, no engineers (cuz trade shows = sales leads). So who was that guy on the OreGear video? Sales or Engineer?. I think sales, because LCD screens absolutely have a refresh rate - no way to get that to zero unless you went analog, like CRT/Plasma (RIP). So you will never get rid of 'motion blur' using LCD (best gaming screens are at 2ms). As far as "lag", well read all that ^ LOL! I mean really, anybody can test real world - have a buddy walk/jog/run and put a LASER on him through the Aurora Monocle - look with the naked eye and see if the LASER is off him...or a bunch of other stuff you can come up with. But nobody wants to test, they just want to go off of what they hear. Driving, like Pnuemagger did - is a good test too. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/31/2020 8:18:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryNice move with the cloth covered cable, and painting it - it'll stick. :thumbsup: |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2020 9:31:05 AM EDT
[#47]
So to be clear. We need a 980 nm laser device that
has a focus-able head that would allow said device to become a short distance area illuminator? Does that clearly define the device we want? I think that's what I'm looking for as a helmet mountable illuminator. The only other angle that I haven't investigated in depth and I would be a gel type filter to go over the lens of an IR light to help move it closer to 980 nm emmisions. A left over thought from my film photography days. A polarizer maybe? I know we could use processed film as filter to remove a significant amount of visible light from flashlights, but I don't know how high on the spectrum that covered. I checked on getting a roll processed a few weeks ago, but you can only send it off now and they only send back digital files. This is making my head hurt now. I need coffee. And oatmeal. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pneumagger: Be sure to get 980nm LASER based light source. An LED light source has a whole lot of bleed from the peak frequency and the gen 3 will still see it. This is because LEDs have a baroader spectrum of light output and lasers have a very narrow spectral output. Even cheap chinesium LDs only have about 5-10nm of wavelength spread. If you go with LED, try some of those 1050nm LED output diodes. That might be high enough peak wavelength to avoid significant output below 950nm. As an example, I have a 30mW 980nm laser I bought for like $12. Not 0.5mW or 0.7mW (like many IR Laser sights), not 5mW (Class IIIa eye-safe limit) ... but 30mW. With my naked eye I can't see any pink/purple glow looking at the aperture from the side and I can't see the dot at all either... which is the point. Looking through the aurora, the dot blooms out crazy big and lights up a whole portion of that room and you can see the beam. I could probably dial the laser power back 10X and it would still be too bright for "aiming". Cool, the aurora can see the 980nm laser REALLY REALLY good. Looking through my Gen3? Nothing visible of the dot looking at the wall from across the room. If I walk up to the wall and "stare" at the dot I can kind of see a faint fuzzy dot on the wall. It's dim and I'm inches away and I need to be looking for it to even almost kind of see it... and this is a 50X more powerful beam than a typical IR "aiming" laser. No way it would ever see an appropriate <1mW aiming beam. And there's no way the Gen3 would see even a very power 980nm illuminator once the beam diverges into a cone of light. Looking directly at the 30mW emitter aperture from across the room with the Gen3 you can see a dot of light, but again, not crazy bright or something you'd notice more than a few dozen yards away. Although if it were a 300-500mW "illuminator" the gen 3 would likely see a point of light at the emitter, too. |
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Posted: 3/31/2020 9:48:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Has anybody attempted or cobbled together a pvs-14 and aurora on the same bridge?
Probably a whole new can of worms with the resulting complications, but could be cool if you switched on green mode to try to match the pvs-14. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 3/31/2020 10:11:48 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ghostdog1066: Has anybody attempted or cobbled together a pvs-14 and aurora on the same bridge? Probably a whole new can of worms with the resulting complications, but could be cool if you switched on green mode to try to match the pvs-14. the green mode for me is the worst of the overlays. its definitely darker. I would use it as an augment to the IIT because it can see and differentiate things the IIT cant. color, visible vs non-visible laser. IIT cant tell the difference. the ability to record in first person without some contraption. |
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Posted: 3/31/2020 10:22:24 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 300Blackout_Drunk: Seeing as the price is going up, I did what any good arfcommer would do and made irresponsible financial decisions. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/504836/IMG_20200330_183430008_jpg-1343124.JPG I'm really happy with what it is for the price. Especially being my first time running any kind of night vision. I am having a bit of a hard time getting it "aligned" right. It seems like no matter how I fiddle with it, I can't quite get the images from both eyes to line up. What am I doing wrong here? Do I need to just keep playing with it little by little? Is it related to wearing eyeglasses? Help, I wanna do hoodrat shit in the woods What bridge are you running? |
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