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Posted: 3/13/2017 12:11:29 AM EDT
[#1]
Nothing will ever out MAWL the MAWL.
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Posted: 3/13/2017 12:41:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Yeah, you are probably right. It looks pretty slick. The price is a little prohibitive for me, though.
The one picture I saw of the NGAL looked like an updated and downsized peq-15. Even if it only had the same performance of the current peq-15, I would still be interested due to its size....assuming it was comparable in price. I may end up with a MAWL, but I was just curious of any other cheaper options were about to be released. This is pretty much my fear with buying thermal also, i'm afraid something awesome will be released after I drop coin on one. |
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Posted: 3/13/2017 2:05:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, you are probably right. It looks pretty slick. The price is a little prohibitive for me, though. The one picture I saw of the NGAL looked like an updated and downsized peq-15. Even if it only had the same performance of the current peq-15, I would still be interested due to its size....assuming it was comparable in price. I may end up with a MAWL, but I was just curious of any other cheaper options were about to be released. This is pretty much my fear with buying thermal also, i'm afraid something awesome will be released after I drop coin on one. I understand that fear. But unless you buy something and a better version drops a week or two later you'll always be playing the waiting game. I understand the MAWL is awesome and maybe I'm wrong but I'm just trying to think it through. Is it around $1200 more awesome than a dbal d2, for what most civi's would use it for? Or $1800 more than a dbal i2? In my case no. I suspect in most cases no. Of course how big your bank account is plays a factor as well. But typically, again, money is a big rate limiting factor. This next statement is my completely ignorant assumption. I know they charge these prices because people pay but $2500? I think that's getting a bit much for most civi's. I'm guessing that's an acceptable trade off for them as they've probably forecasted more sales with LE/mil. |
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Posted: 3/13/2017 10:58:36 AM EDT
[#4]
The MWAL is more than double the price of a DBAL A3. Is it double the device? To me it's not, although I do want one. I waited a long time for the PEQ-C, and was honestly disappointed in the illuminator and overall quality. The NGAL will be made roughly the same. If it is, that'll still make the DBAL series the best made and best bang for your buck lasers on the market.
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Posted: 3/13/2017 11:05:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The MWAL is more than double the price of a DBAL A3. Is it double the device? To me it's not, although I do want one. I waited a long time for the PEQ-C, and was honestly disappointed in the illuminator and overall quality. The NGAL will be made roughly the same. If it is, that'll still make the DBAL series the best made and best bang for your buck lasers on the market. Well spoken. $2500 is 1/2 or more to a decent used TWS. |
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Posted: 3/13/2017 7:26:56 PM EDT
[#6]
Exactly. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around why they would price it so high. It's almost the same price as a new PVS 14 which is the quintessential entry level NOD. Pricing a laser within $500 of that seems unrealistic. Now If they had integrated a variable power white light as well, I might be tempted.
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Posted: 3/13/2017 8:53:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Either way they currently own the market with the MAWL and those performance specs and as long as they do, they can charge whatever the market will bear. And with TNVC selling out within hours the market is currently bearing that price. Capitalism and such, how does it work?
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Posted: 3/13/2017 9:19:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Sold out in hours eh? I'll be waiting like a vulture in the EE
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Posted: 3/13/2017 10:13:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Essentially, go be poor somewhere else.
Winning costs |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 12:14:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Essentially, go be poor somewhere else. Winning costs There is no shame in not being able to afford the most expensive xyz. While I enjoy this hobby, I have many financial responsibilities....everybody has to find the right balance. Honestly, the MAWL looks amazing...I would love to have one. But lasers at half the price have done the trick for thousands of people. This thread was about hopefully finding out about cheaper offerings that would still serve my needs. You can take that Ritchie Ritch BS somewhere else. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 12:17:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sold out in hours eh? I'll be waiting like a vulture in the EE
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Posted: 3/14/2017 12:43:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either way they currently own the market with the MAWL and those performance specs and as long as they do, they can charge whatever the market will bear. And with TNVC selling out within hours the market is currently bearing that price. Capitalism and such, how does it work? I don't think anyone here has a problem with it. But let's not pretend selling out in a few hours means they sold thousands or even multiple hundreds and I doubt the selling out trend will continue. You can't say a market is bearing the price just by the initial sales of a product release. I'd bet 95% of civi's will not buy at that price which is why I'm guessing they don't really care as they forecasted more LE/mil sales. Especially with how soft the gun market is now. Nothing is selling. You can steel stuff in EE. I know guys who work at gun shops and they are moving some hand guns but that's about it. Obviously there will always be a small percentage of the population with lots of money but I'll bet they are the ones who already bought. I've never used one so I can only assume, but I'm willing to bet that it's not double the product of a d2. At least to me, a civilian. So I can't foresee paying double the price of a d2 when the d2 is so fucking winning. Again, I'm all for capitalism. But imo this unit is simply priced too high. Way too high. I mean, new d2's with a new TAPS switch are $1000 less. That's a lot of laser/illuminator and ergonomics for a lot less. Just thinking out loud, again. Discussion forum and all that. Not looking to ruffle feathers. And maybe subconsciously I'm jealous I can't afford one but I don't think so. My dbal d2 kicks a whole lotta ass and does exactly what I want and has a great durability track record at places like the Telluric group. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 12:45:11 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no shame in not being able to afford the most expensive xyz. While I enjoy this hobby, I have many financial responsibilities....everybody has to find the right balance. Honestly, the MAWL looks amazing...I would love to have one. But lasers at half the price have done the trick for thousands of people. This thread was about hopefully finding out about cheaper offerings that would still serve my needs. You can take that Ritchie Ritch BS somewhere else. I may have read it wrong but I think he's sorta joking/poking at the high price. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 12:54:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Ok, my mistake...seemed legit.
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Posted: 3/14/2017 1:06:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, my mistake...seemed legit. I dunno. Maybe he is lol 
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Posted: 3/14/2017 11:07:04 AM EDT
[#16]
They took a big gamble pricing as it is IMO. Especially considering this is their first venture into this corner of the market and there are already battle proven and time tested designs out there. Regardless of that, the status quo has changed and the outcome of their sales, or lack of, will shape the LAM world as we know it. PD/Mil might be the target audience, but they can be cheap fuckers just as easily as we can.
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Posted: 3/14/2017 6:22:59 PM EDT
[#17]
That's a steep price to pay. I understand that it's probably more marketed to PD/mil - but as mentioned above they can be cheap too. Maybe not the .mil who has all of our money but I can't see a bunch of local PD wanting to buy 1 MAWL when they could effective provide two guns with a d2/i2 set up instead.
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Posted: 3/14/2017 9:13:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a steep price to pay. I understand that it's probably more marketed to PD/mil - but as mentioned above they can be cheap too. Maybe not the .mil who has all of our money but I can't see a bunch of local PD wanting to buy 1 MAWL when they could effective provide two guns with a d2/i2 set up instead. Your local pd is not buying class 1 gear when they can get full power models at gov bid pricing. |
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Posted: 3/14/2017 9:54:30 PM EDT
[#19]
I just ran across a website with the Wilcox Raid advertised....$3800....regular price $4000.
....that sucks. I live in hope that the NGAL will Be sub-2k. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:30:17 AM EDT
[#20]
considering the price of the MAWL
and that I already have an atpial-c, I am sticking with what I have. the Atpial looks cooler too
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:36:29 AM EDT
[#21]
At these price points they need to have a LRF coupled to Applied Ballistics, that displays into my scope. Yep, definitly not marketed to guys like me.
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Posted: 3/15/2017 11:40:59 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At these price points they need to have a LRF coupled to Applied Ballistics, that displays into my scope. Yep, definitly not marketed to guys like me. Didn't you basically describe a RAPTAR-M? http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/15/hands-on-wilcox-raptar-applied-ballistics-prototype-raptar-m/ |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 12:35:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Hey guys I thought I'd chime in.
Let me throw a few things out there to consider, I wont try and derail this thread too much but I will go slightly high and right for a bit. The MAWL C1+ is absolutley marketed towards civilians and not really anybody else, the laser is not for everybody, and neither is an ATPIAL C when a DBAL I2 is 40% less. That said People looking to upgrade their current stock of lasers may infact be flooding the market with ATPIAL C's DBALs of every type that are still fantastic lasers, think about this our Grand parents would have loved to have had this capability fighting the Germans and Japanese 70+ years ago, and having the ability to shoot and hit a target at 100+ yards in near complete darkness should never be taken for granted. So if you are looking for some affordable lasers because you just cannot stomach the price tag of the MAWL C1+ you probably wont have to look hard for a used but in good condition DBAL or ATPIAL C. Here is the other thing, the Demand for the MAWL C1+ is established and its healthy, we sold out of our first shipment of lasers in less than 3 hours on the very first day. I even received phone calls \on my personal cell from folks on the West Coast as I was driving into work at 0745 in the morning East coast time because they were hot to trot on the MAWL C1+ and just had to have one. There will always be folks wanting the best capability money can afford to the commercial market. With that said, the Steiner and Insight lasers are still awesome awesome peices of gear that will continue to provide extremely good capability for their price point to the users. in addition if Steiner and L3/Insight were to debut a laser with the same performance envelope as the MAWL C1+ it would also be 2500$, so chew on that. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 12:45:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Raptar isnt or hasnt been for sale to civilians. Sure they have a "c" model, but doesnt have the LRF module.
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Posted: 3/15/2017 1:14:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I may have read it wrong but I think he's sorta joking/poking at the high price. no, that was a standard BS GD reply that does not belong in this forum. I want one of those expensive suckers too, but it is too much money to spend on a laser for me. I think they will come down as soon as more manufactures get going with new stuff. It always is more expensive at first. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 1:39:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no shame in not being able to afford the most expensive xyz. While I enjoy this hobby, I have many financial responsibilities....everybody has to find the right balance. Honestly, the MAWL looks amazing...I would love to have one. But lasers at half the price have done the trick for thousands of people. This thread was about hopefully finding out about cheaper offerings that would still serve my needs. You can take that Ritchie Ritch BS somewhere else. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 4:03:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You left the field wide open in the original post. If you have specific applications, limitations or budgetary concerns then those should all be addressed in the beginning. As the OP you need to lead the thread where you want it to go or it will decide on its own. While there is no shame in not being able to afford a MAWL, you have not given us a budget and it appears that we are supposed to sort that for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There is no shame in not being able to afford the most expensive xyz. While I enjoy this hobby, I have many financial responsibilities....everybody has to find the right balance. Honestly, the MAWL looks amazing...I would love to have one. But lasers at half the price have done the trick for thousands of people. This thread was about hopefully finding out about cheaper offerings that would still serve my needs. You can take that Ritchie Ritch BS somewhere else. +1 my first IR laser was a crimson trace rail master mounted exactly like this 
I think i paid $175 for it - still use it to this day too mounted on a different weapon. I even made a custom "bumper" in the back out of a rubber 1911 base pad alot like this 
the pics belong to another member here who gave me the idea for it |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 6:38:39 PM EDT
[#28]
The original post means exactly what it says. I dont think it leaves the subject wide open.
If you have any insight into any new lasers being released this year, please feel free to share that info. That is what I inquired about...any new lasers being released this year. That was the only question I posed. I have many reasons for being curious as to what is on the horizon. As far as my comment later in the thread, after a glib and insulting post...yea, I would also like a laser cheaper than the incredibly expensive mawl. ...but price is not necessarily a deal breaker. Mostly, I just want to know what is about to be released so I dont buy something now and have regrets later when a NGAL or something similar is released at a good price (hopefully). This thread is not about the MAWL or how much the MAWL costs...its also not about cheap lasers....i was just hoping to learn about any offerings coming up later in the year. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 8:06:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Essentially, go be poor somewhere else. Winning costs Insulting: Not really. Accurate: 100% Most of the combo rigs suck for very solid technological reasons. If you need a good laser now, then you are well served by a stand-alone battle-tested laser of your choosing. Quite frankly I don't like my laser integrated with my illuminator because I like to use a flood and I get too much muzzle shadow. I like the light further forward than I can get the laser, especially if we are running suppressors. Bleeding edge gear costs proportionally WAY more than the advantage implies. The copycats don't need to do the development that B.E. Meyers did on the MAWL so the derivative works will be priced much less in a couple of years. The lasers, themselves, won't improve much over the next couple of years - it's the illuminators that will advance. If you are not tied to a combo rig you don't really need to worry as much about keeping up. A better way to start the thread would have been, "Are there any new lasers due for release within my budget of X dollars?" If you leave the question of budget wide open then a lot more of the responding posters' own slant (even dreams) goes into the mix. If you keep the thread pointed where you want it then you get less chaff and less of what you perceive as insult. Expecting a thread to go where you want without sending it there is unrealistic. You still have not given us a budget, unless I missed it. PS: If you think I'm being insulting then you need to recalibrate. I'm just trying to be helpful. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 9:02:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Are there any other new lasers expected to be offered this year? Any updates on the NGAL, Raid or other? Oi vey... SOT...i'm assuming you didn't read the topic of this thread....here it is. |
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:05:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oi vey... SOT...i'm assuming you didn't read the topic of this thread....here it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Are there any other new lasers expected to be offered this year? Any updates on the NGAL, Raid or other? Oi vey... SOT...i'm assuming you didn't read the topic of this thread....here it is. Sorry late to the party, ( I just read the OP's topic) been a bit busy around here. Talked with L3 direcrly on this at Shot. No news on the NGAL except winning a SOCOM contract and starting deliveries. No word on civy models, as they have to fufill Mill orders first. Seen the RAID a few times but have no definitive news on that. Steiners new (designed) DBAL-A4 will be here this summer. Steiners PL will FINALLY have programmable buttons and the new RL will all be released this summer as well. Hope this helps. 
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:45:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Thanks for the update, I probably should have just emailed you guys directly in the first place.
I may just go with a MAWL if its going to be a while on the NGAL. |
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Posted: 3/16/2017 10:37:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Raptar isnt or hasnt been for sale to civilians. Sure they have a "c" model, but doesnt have the LRF module. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Raptar isnt or hasnt been for sale to civilians. Sure they have a "c" model, but doesnt have the LRF module. Sure they do. $4898.35 
https://tnvc.com/shop/wilcox-raptar-es-class1-infrared-laser/ The RAPTAR ES contains a Class1 IR Laser Pointer, Visible Laser Pointer, Variable Focus IR Illuminator, and IR Laser Range Finder. |
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Posted: 3/19/2017 11:22:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Lets stop complaining about the price and be thankful it's for sale to us AT ALL. Most of the really good stuff doesn't trickle down for whatever reason. If we can establish a civi market in this price point others with other gear will be likely to follow. Capitalism at work. And that means a used market so cheap skates like me can pick one up some day. I want a Pvs-31 so bad but by the time you can buy one something better will be out.
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Posted: 3/23/2017 9:14:39 PM EDT
[#35]
You have a valid point. Regardless of price it's nice to see manufacturers finally taking us seriously. It wasn't all that long ago we couldn't have any IR lasers. Now a few short years later we're bitching about price and options
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