Hypothetical question about Sten kit

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hypothetical question about Sten kit

Posted: 3/8/2010 6:09:29 AM EDT

I remember seeing a picture in an old SAR magazine of a STEN upper on an M16, which for some reason, intrigued me...

Say if I were to buy a Sten kit, trow out the fire-control parts, but keep the bolt, barrel, spring etc and build a tube that will fit an M16/AR lower using the bolt and barrel etc from the Sten, am I, by making a tube for the sten bolt/barrel/trunnion making a contraband MG?

The way I see it, without the fire control parts, there is no way the thing could run full auto, or fire by itself, so I'd be good, right?

For all intents and purposes, let's say I have SBRed and/or M16 lower on hand.

Posted: 3/8/2010 7:43:42 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

<snip>

am I, by making a tube for the sten bolt/barrel/trunnion making a contraband MG?

I think yes.

The way I see it, without the fire control parts, there is no way the thing could run full auto, or fire by itself, so I'd be good, right?

The Sten is a open bolt gun so "theoretically" you could just retract the bolt, let it go and it would strip a round from the magazine and fire. Without the FCP's to catch(stop) the bolt it would be a runaway gun until empty.

just my .02¢

Posted: 3/8/2010 7:51:53 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

<snip>

am I, by making a tube for the sten bolt/barrel/trunnion making a contraband MG?

I think yes.

The way I see it, without the fire control parts, there is no way the thing could run full auto, or fire by itself, so I'd be good, right?

The Sten is a open bolt gun so "theoretically" you could just retract the bolt, let it go and it would strip a round from the magazine and fire. Without the FCP's to catch(stop) the bolt it would be a runaway gun until empty.

just my .02¢

I wonder how that kit worked. Perhaps it was modified to fire closed bolt, which was what I was thinking about as well.

Posted: 3/8/2010 10:05:17 AM EDT

[#3]

it could be done, but as you've surmised, you'd have to develop a closed-bolt method for it to operate. the ATF does not look highly on open bolt semi's.

there actually was someone who tried to get around the MG ruling many years ago by building up stens that had no FCG. it worked just like the other poster said. you'd put in a mag, pull back the CH, and let it rip - mag dump. his angle was that it didn't fit the definition of a MG (more than one shot per pull of the trigger) since it didn't have a trigger at all. ATF disagreed.

i'm sure someone who knows this stuff better will be along with the specifics.

Posted: 3/9/2010 5:52:06 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

it could be done, but as you've surmised, you'd have to develop a closed-bolt method for it to operate. the ATF does not look highly on open bolt semi's.

there actually was someone who tried to get around the MG ruling many years ago by building up stens that had no FCG. it worked just like the other poster said. you'd put in a mag, pull back the CH, and let it rip - mag dump. his angle was that it didn't fit the definition of a MG (more than one shot per pull of the trigger) since it didn't have a trigger at all. ATF disagreed.

i'm sure someone who knows this stuff better will be along with the specifics.

Ha ha... thayt's kind of ingenius. Too bad the ATF stifles creativity.

Posted: 3/9/2010 9:38:21 AM EDT

[#5]

IIRC, if you add an "upper" that is considered a firearm by itself, to an M16 lower, the ATF say that is making a new MG. Because your upper that is not a transferable MG has been made to fire more than one shot per trigger pull. In order to do this, the upper receiver section cannot be the registered part of the firearm.

Posted: 3/9/2010 1:12:18 PM EDT

[#6]

I remember that article. IIRC .. the man was a Dr. with a registered M16 and built an upper for an M16 (NOT a STen tube sitting on top of a 16) .. he made radical modifications to the parts and converted the system to closed bolt. At that point it was just a short barrelled upper for an AR/M16.

I'll go see if I can find the article.

Posted: 3/9/2010 1:23:03 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

I remember that article. IIRC .. the man was a Dr. with a registered M16 and built an upper for an M16 (NOT a STen tube sitting on top of a 16) .. he made radical modifications to the parts and converted the system to closed bolt. At that point it was just a short barrelled upper for an AR/M16.

I'll go see if I can find the article.

Exactly. I've been rootin' through my pile of SARs as well...

Posted: 3/9/2010 1:35:55 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I remember that article. IIRC .. the man was a Dr. with a registered M16 and built an upper for an M16 (NOT a STen tube sitting on top of a 16) .. he made radical modifications to the parts and converted the system to closed bolt. At that point it was just a short barrelled upper for an AR/M16.

I'll go see if I can find the article.

Exactly. I've been rootin' through my pile of SARs as well...

I haven't gone looking yet .. but IIRC .. it had some "winter war" cover on the front of that copy

ETA: found it .. copies of the article incoming