Posted: 12/21/2005 1:25:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: First off the Sheriff is not the only person who can sign the CLEO signoff no mater what anyone else says. Plenty of people tried totell me only the sherif can sign and that s just not right. I had the DA sign mine.
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Yeah, but have you read about North Carolina and NFA? It's confusing as hell. NORTH CAROLINA LAW ON NFA WEAPONS
North Carolina regulates machine guns in two areas of their law, both as machine guns, and lumped in to a category of all NFA weapons (and some other, non-NFA weapons as well), which they call "weapons of mass death and destruction". The respective statutory sections are 14-409, and 14-288.8.
In order to be exempted from the general ban on possessing "weapons of mass death and destruction", found at section 14-288.8, you need to be either an FFL holder (including a collector's FFL, type 03), OR be one of apparently many "inventors, designers, ordnance consultants and researchers, chemists, physicists, and other persons lawfully engaged in pursuits designed to enlarge knowledge or to facilitate the creation, development, or manufacture of weapons of mass death and destruction intended for use in a manner consistant with the laws of United States and the State of North Carolina." While there are a few other exceptions, they do not apply to most people.
In addition to machine guns being regulated as weapons of mass death and destruction, section 14-409 of the North Carolina statutes regulates machine guns in particular. It says that it is illegal to have one, unless you fall one of into several categories:
1. Banks, merchants and recognized businesses that have obtained a permit for the gun from their counties sheriff;
2. persons in the U.S. military, while engaged in their duties;
3. persons in the state militia, while engaged in their duties;
4. peace officers, while engaged in their duties;
5. "the manufacture, use or possession of such weapons for scientific or experimental purposes when such manufacture, use or possession is lawful under federal laws and the weapon is registered with a federal agency, and when a permit to manufacture, use or possess the weapon is issued by the sheriff of the county in which the weapon is located";
6. persons who possessed such guns as a war souvenir before the law was passed may also keep them legally if they register them with their sheriff.
Since the laws suggests you need the "permit" after you acquire the machine gun, not before, ATF should not require proof of a state permit that only applies after you take delivery to approve a form 4. However, as of January, 2000, I understand that, after the N.C. A.G. got interested in this law and discussed it with NFA Branch, ATF is requiring proof of a permit before they will approve a machine gun transfer form, including a transfer to a dealer.
A permit from the sheriff of the county where the machine gun is lcoated, in addition to the Form 4, is required to possess a machine gun legally, under the law. Arguably, possession of a machine gun under the permit is exception requires a permit from any county where the machine gun is located, at any time, including moving the gun with your personal property from one residene to another, or even transporting it. See the email from the A.G.'s office, below, indicating in an informal opinion that no permit is needed to move it through counties from place of purchase to its place of storage, although a permit is needed for where it will be stored, and if it is to ever be stored in a new county, a permit from the sheriff of that county will be needed.
The permit would be for "scientific or experimental" purposes, unless you fall into one of the other categories. However, your sheriff may consider the approved Form 4 to be your "permit". Whether the D.A. would agree that a form 4 signed by the sheriff is a "permit" is another issue, and whether collecting and fun shooting is possessing for scientific or experimental purposes is yet another issue. In addition, to comply with the "weapon of mass death and destruction" statute you need to either have an FFL, or have the gun for purposes listed as lawful in that statute.
Until the late 1980's North Carolina law defined any firearm which was set up to fire 31 or more rounds without reloading as a machine gun, regardless of whether it fired more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. See State v. Lee, 877 N.C. 242 (1970), for a discussion of the prior statute. Lee possessed an apparently semi-automatic Universal M-1 carbine with a 30 round magazine, and was prosecuted, the prosecutor apparently counting 30 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber to reach 31. This prior definition excluded some machine guns, since it was dependent soely on magazine capacity, and as shown by the Lee case, included some guns which are not usually considered machine guns. As a result, many persons have machine guns in N.C., for which they do not have a permit, and arguably do not qualify for a permit either - they don't have the gun for the extremely limited reasons in the law. A push has started (1/2000) to get section 14-409 repealed, or amended to permit any Federally registered machine gun.
James H. Jeffries III, a attorney who practices firearms law in North Carolina and in various federal courts, offers these additional thoughts:
You may wish to point out that (1) where two statutes inconsistently address the same subject matter (e.g., the collector's exception for weapons of mass death and destruction), the specific statute (the MG statute) will be deemed to prevail over the general; (2) the great bulk of MGs legally registered in NC occurred before 1989 when the statute defined a MG as anything with a 31-round capacity or greater, regardless of type of fire (it has now been amended to use the federal definition); (3) many of the 100 NC sheriffs have no knowledge of the law and are conditioned by our pistol permit scheme to sign gun permits; (4) the NC AG's office for a long time was equally ignorant; (5) BATF continued to believe that NC is a MG state because many sheriff's continue to (erroneously) sign Forms 4 and 5; (6) some of the urban sheriffs and the state AG are beginning to wake up; (7) we have a general firearms forfeiture statute which makes seizable any firearm used (possessed) in violation of the law.
I refrained for years from disseminating this info because of the potentially devastating effect on MG owners, but the word is now out. I have advised NC clients for several years that purchasing a MG in NC is a risky proposition and that only legislation can change the situation.
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