Would this be a straw purchase?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would this be a straw purchase?

Posted: 4/30/2009 6:02:41 PM EDT

I just sold my 1965 Enfield 2A (from MN to GA). The buyer said he will pay for it, but wants me to ship it to his friend who has the C&R. I said it sounded funny, and that the funds should be coming from the same guy as the C&R. He said, no problem, he'd just have his C&R friend pay for it...

When I look into my yellow ATF manual, I don't see ANY provision for this kind of deal. ALL I see is that on out of state transfers, the buyer has to come to my state in person and fill out a 4473, or the rifle has to be shipped C&R to C&R. (Well, it seems that a non-C&R can ship to a C&R, as well). The buyer said his friend looked and didn't see anything prohibiting it.

Am I missing their more liberal interpretation somewhere in the ATF manual?

Posted: 4/30/2009 6:12:52 PM EDT

[#1]

AFAIK if you ship to the C&R, the responsibility becomes his. Assuming his C&R is legit, you're GTG.

Posted: 4/30/2009 6:44:41 PM EDT

[#2]

If you sell it to the C&R holder, it's not your problem anymore. Just keep your bound book in order.

Posted: 5/1/2009 3:39:49 AM EDT

[#3]

This is not a good situation. I would not sell to them. The other C&R holder is acting as a dealer and you know about it and are a party in the transaction. Ship it to an 01 FFL or not at all.

Posted: 5/1/2009 4:34:12 AM EDT

[#4]

I had pretty much the exact thing happen to me, guy wanted to buy a gun, but to send to his friend, told him I couldnt do that, shipped it to an regular FFL instead. If he wanted to have the benefits of a C&R he should have gotten one himself, it just dont feel right when something like that happens even though it could be totally innocent. The way I look at it is like the line from the movie office space, when dealing with firearms " they dont send you to blue collar conqiucal visits prison, they send you to federal pound you in the ass prison"

Posted: 5/1/2009 8:15:54 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
This is not a good situation. I would not sell to them. The other C&R holder is acting as a dealer and you know about it and are a party in the transaction. Ship it to an 01 FFL or not at all.

That right there. 03FFL blatantly acting as a dealer. That's some bad juju there. There is no way in hell I would be a party to that.

Posted: 5/1/2009 10:54:07 AM EDT

[#6]

Yeah, I see the majority of people feel the way I do in this situation. I called my local FFL, here, and he concurred. This transaction will only proceed by being transferred through a gun shop/FFL on the buyer's end. Thanks for the input.

Posted: 5/1/2009 12:33:45 PM EDT

[#7]

An 03 does not permit you to engage in the business of dealing in any kinds of firearms. If a C&R holder is receiving a firearm with the sole intention of giving it to his friend, that's engaging in business. If an 03 holder buys an C&R-eligible gun for their own use then decides they don't want it, they can sell it no problem, but you cannot buy a C&R gun with the intention of transferring it to an individual.

Posted: 5/1/2009 2:30:53 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Yeah, I see the majority of people feel the way I do in this situation. I called my local FFL, here, and he concurred. This transaction will only proceed by being transferred through a gun shop/FFL on the buyer's end. Thanks for the input.

I'd sooner say nothing to them and find a new buyer....keep them stupid

Posted: 5/2/2009 1:12:14 PM EDT

[#9]

In other words a C&R can't be engaged in the business of selling like a full FFL, which is what the person he wants it shipped to intends to do. Chicken don't do the transfer unless its to a FFL, knowing that a a straw purchase will take place as a result of your sale, would put you in a bad situation with the ATF.

Posted: 5/2/2009 5:42:11 PM EDT

[#10]

Nothing wrong with it. Ship it.

Straw purchase is misrepresenting yourself as a buyer so that someone who CANNOT LEGALLY OWN a firearm can take possession.

Either way, it's a non issue as you transferred it to another FFL.

Posted: 5/2/2009 5:44:05 PM EDT

[#11]

it does sound like a straw purchase, unless he is buying for his friend that has the C&R. A C&R holder cant just buy firearms and sell them right away. I am pretty sure that any firearm that is acquired with a C&R has to stay in the licensees possession for at least 2 years before he can sell or transfer the firearm.

Posted: 5/2/2009 5:48:52 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
A C&R holder cant just buy firearms and sell them right away. I am pretty sure that any firearm that is acquired with a C&R has to stay in the licensees possession for at least 2 years before he can sell or transfer the firearm.

I 'm absolutely sure you're wrong. I can sell firearms for any reason that I desire, so long as it's not to maintain my livelihood.

Posted: 5/2/2009 6:09:19 PM EDT

[#13]

I may of confused the two year part with something else, but buying firearms with the intent to resell them is engaging in business with the license. A C&R is meant for the holder of it to acquire firearms for his collection not someone elses.

Posted: 5/2/2009 6:15:43 PM EDT

[#14]

It is perfectly legal for the C&R holder to do this. He is not engaging in the business of being a dealer if he is not deriving an income from buying and selling.

Posted: 5/2/2009 6:49:39 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is not a good situation. I would not sell to them. The other C&R holder is acting as a dealer and you know about it and are a party in the transaction. Ship it to an 01 FFL or not at all.

That right there. 03FFL blatantly acting as a dealer. That's some bad juju there. There is no way in hell I would be a party to that.

+1. Stay away.

ETA: This is NOT "straw purchase" –– that is something different. This is still, however, not legal for the 03FFL to do. He can't do "dealer transfers" on his license.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would this be a straw purchase?

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