Appleseed Liberty Training Rifle

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Appleseed Liberty Training Rifle

Posted: 11/2/2009 4:23:51 PM EDT

I just finished this rig yesterday. It's a Walmart 10/22, stainless with a 22" barrel. Extended mag release stock on this model. First I installed Tech-Sights, then I sent the trigger pack off to Bill Springfield for trigger work and hammer lightening. This was a huge improvement over the stock trigger. I installed a homemade nylon recoil buffer made from a $.58 1/4" X 3 nylon bolt cut to fit. Works great. Really softens up felt recoil and virtually eliminates receiver "pinging". I am going to take this rig to an Appleseed shoot in the near future.

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:20:08 PM EDT

[#1]

Looks good

Posted: 11/2/2009 5:23:10 PM EDT

[#2]

So how does it shoot?

Posted: 11/2/2009 6:23:28 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

Posted: 11/2/2009 7:32:03 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

A nickel is just over .8 inches. If you are shooting groups that size, at 50 yards, with cheap ammo, on a stock ruger 10/22 with tech sites... Then you sir are a much better shot then I and lucked out with a fantastic shooting Ruger.

Posted: 11/2/2009 8:08:49 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

A nickel is just over .8 inches. If you are shooting groups that size, at 50 yards, with cheap ammo, on a stock ruger 10/22 with tech sites... Then you sir are a much better shot then I and lucked out with a fantastic shooting Ruger.

That and you got really lucky with getting a factory barrel that likes what you have

My old factory 10/22 barrel (replaced with a GM fluted bull) LOVES Remington 550.

Posted: 11/2/2009 9:38:53 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

A nickel is just over .8 inches. If you are shooting groups that size, at 50 yards, with cheap ammo, on a stock ruger 10/22 with tech sites... Then you sir are a much better shot then I and lucked out with a fantastic shooting Ruger.

That and you got really lucky with getting a factory barrel that likes what you have

My old factory 10/22 barrel (replaced with a GM fluted bull) LOVES Remington 550.

Exactly. My stock 10/22 is getting nickel sized groups at 25M with bulk ammo and I am using a scope. I am certain it can shoot better with a slightly better trigger so I am working on that, and I am sure some better ammo would help as well. But shooting nickel sized groups at 50 yards with iron sights and a stock rifle and cheap ammo is just something I wish I could do and wish I had the lucky stock rifle to do it with

Posted: 11/3/2009 8:58:46 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

How many shots are in these "groups" and how many groups are we talking about? Sorry but I'm going to have to raise the

Nickle size groups at 50 yrds with a mostly stock 10/22 and iron combat type sights is pretty hard to believe? for that to be true, not only would you have to be an excellent shot but also lucky enough to get one of the best stock 10/22 barrels ever. Maybe it would be better for you go to that Appleseed shoot as instructor and not a student

Posted: 11/3/2009 10:01:42 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

How many shots are in these "groups" and how many groups are we talking about? Sorry but I'm going to have to raise the

Nickle size groups at 50 yrds with a mostly stock 10/22 and iron combat type sights is pretty hard to believe? for that to be true, not only would you have to be an excellent shot but also lucky enough to get one of the best stock 10/22 barrels ever. Maybe it would be better for you go to that Appleseed shoot as instructor and not a student

I wasn't going to call BS on the guy. If you go check out some the shooters over on Rimfire Central you will see iron sight shooters getting 5 shot groups of a half inch at 50 yards with iron sights. Now 90+% of them have aftermarket barrels, triggers and sights. But I still think if you got an extremely lucky nice stock shooter it could be done.

Like I said earlier, he is just a hell of a better shot then I am. Hell of a lot better, and I have no problem admitting that.

I would have to be lucky to get nickel sized groups at 25 yards with iron sights on a stock 10/22.

Edit: The only things that would lead me to believe BS as well is the fact that he states that his results are just "pretty good" and about what he expected...

Posted: 11/3/2009 11:53:43 AM EDT

[#9]

+1

I wouldn't raise the BS flag. I was getting one hole 3-shot groups out of my stock 10/22 with Remington 550 ammo at 25 yards

He was also probably shooting with some sort of support to sight in the rifle (bench, against a tree/post, bipod, etc).

Posted: 11/3/2009 3:51:22 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

You had very high expectations on a 10/22. I have never seen one do that with a factory barrel. I would hold on to that rifle and not change anything.

Posted: 11/3/2009 4:14:34 PM EDT

[#11]

He did say he had a trigger job, and it was off the bench.

Not all factory 10/22 barrels shoot poorly.

Posted: 11/4/2009 4:43:26 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

How many shots are in these "groups" and how many groups are we talking about? Sorry but I'm going to have to raise the

Nickle size groups at 50 yrds with a mostly stock 10/22 and iron combat type sights is pretty hard to believe? for that to be true, not only would you have to be an excellent shot but also lucky enough to get one of the best stock 10/22 barrels ever. Maybe it would be better for you go to that Appleseed shoot as instructor and not a student

I wasn't going to call BS on the guy. If you go check out some the shooters over on Rimfire Central you will see iron sight shooters getting 5 shot groups of a half inch at 50 yards with iron sights. Now 90+% of them have aftermarket barrels, triggers and sights. But I still think if you got an extremely lucky nice stock shooter it could be done.

Like I said earlier, he is just a hell of a better shot then I am. Hell of a lot better, and I have no problem admitting that.

I would have to be lucky to get nickel sized groups at 25 yards with iron sights on a stock 10/22.

Edit: The only things that would lead me to believe BS as well is the fact that he states that his results are just "pretty good" and about what he expected...

I agree that it's not impossible (well it would be for me and my eyes\shooting ability!

), but it seems very unlikely considering everything he stated. Not only would it take a very skilled shooter and a very lucky combo of great factory barrel using ammo that barrel really likes, good range conditions, etc. but like you said, his ho hum attitude about it and the fact that he built this to go to an appleseed shoot which doesn't scream experienced shooter to me?

Maybe his idea of a "group" is 3 shots and maybe he only did that 2 or 3 times out of 10? That would still be very good shooting but not the same as multiple 5 or 10 shot groups with the same results

Maybe he's telling the truth and if he is, I'm sorry for raising the flag but I'm really doubting it all things considered.

Posted: 11/4/2009 6:35:24 AM EDT

[#13]

Looks good. I put on Tech Sights, extended mag release, auto bolt release, and sling swivels and made rifleman. Mine is a 245-XXX serial number and it shoot alright other than the trigger being 10lbs (not kidding it is heavier than my GI AR-15 trigger).

Have fun learning how to use a sling properly and take elbow pads :)

Posted: 11/4/2009 6:46:38 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
He did say he had a trigger job, and it was off the bench.

Not all factory 10/22 barrels shoot poorly.

+1

The best money you can spend on a 10/22 is a trigger job. The stock barrels can be very accurate.

- I did let out a friendly WTF ? when the OP spoke about softening the 10/22 "recoil "

Nothing personal OP , Great looking rifle. I have the same Walmart 10/22 Rifle but built up a Liberty rifle with the tech sights on a 10/22 with a Mannlicher style stock. I call it my M1 Garand trainer.

Posted: 11/4/2009 8:02:00 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

- I did let out a friendly WTF ? when the OP spoke about softening the 10/22 "recoil "

They do have... Some

The buffer just gets rid of the noise and helps the optic out a bit.

Posted: 11/4/2009 8:08:52 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
The best money you can spend on a 10/22 is a trigger job. The stock barrels can be very accurate.

Don't even need a whole trigger job. Just a VQ hammer and then a little home polishing on the sear and disconnector will do wonders.

Posted: 11/4/2009 4:42:29 PM EDT

[#17]

Well, I made it back to the range today, and though I didn't manage any nickle size groups the gun is capable of it. The Remington Target seemed to group better than did the Federal.

My original post seemed to start a shit storm of ridicule. I did not intend to piss anybody off of to boast in any way. My gun does shoot good. Factory barrels do sometimes. Maybe I was a bit coy with my first post.

Here are a few pictures from today....................

Posted: 11/4/2009 4:44:50 PM EDT

[#18]

Oh, my groups did seem open up a bit after I pulled a dry patch. My eyes are getting older. I have trouble focusing. Sucks getting old. I have a bone stock 10/22 carbine that easily has a 100,000 round count. It's sloppy and loose but it still runs. It has the original steel buffer. Side by side there is a noticeable difference in the way the rifles feel. The nylon buffer really does reduce shock and it really seems to reduce movement (felt recoil). It just shoots more smoothly. I am 36 and have been shooting seriously since I was 10. I got interested in Appleseed because, my son now 10, is really getting into guns.

Posted: 11/4/2009 6:39:37 PM EDT

[#19]

My original post seemed to start a shit storm of ridicule. I did not intend to piss anybody off of to boast in any way

You have to have a little bit of a thick skin around here.

Great post, write-up and pictures. We hope to see more.

Shooting with your ten-year old will bring some of the best times and memories ever. But you already knew that.

Posted: 11/5/2009 5:08:59 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
My original post seemed to start a shit storm of ridicule. I did not intend to piss anybody off of to boast in any way

You have to have a little bit of a thick skin around here.

Great post, write-up and pictures. We hope to see more.

Shooting with your ten-year old will bring some of the best times and memories ever. But you already knew that.

Yeah, I have noticed that. Assholes seem to flock to this sight. I have noticed that if a person is not part of particular "circle jerks" on here that they get dog piled. The fact that someone would question a person's firearm experience due to their interest in Appleseed is just plain asinine. This place reminds me of high school sometimes.

Posted: 11/5/2009 8:11:19 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
The fact that someone would question a person's firearm experience due to their interest in Appleseed is just plain asinine.

I don't see anyone questioning your firearm experience due to Appleseed interest...

Quoted:
It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

I see a ton of people questioning you for this, because this is insanely good shooting. And it is almost unbelievable shooting for a Ruger 10/22 with factory barrel with iron sights.

Quoted:

And this is a long long long ways from stated above and why people were asking questions. The problem is that there are a ton of people online, and on this sight who claim to be expert marksmen and drill 6 inch targets at 800 meters all day, and yadda yadda yadda... So when people claim to do something that is FANTASTIC shooting, you will be doubted until it is proved.

Posted: 11/5/2009 8:58:27 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So how does it shoot?

It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

How many shots are in these "groups" and how many groups are we talking about? Sorry but I'm going to have to raise the

Nickle size groups at 50 yrds with a mostly stock 10/22 and iron combat type sights is pretty hard to believe? for that to be true, not only would you have to be an excellent shot but also lucky enough to get one of the best stock 10/22 barrels ever. Maybe it would be better for you go to that Appleseed shoot as instructor and not a student

I wasn't going to call BS on the guy. If you go check out some the shooters over on Rimfire Central you will see iron sight shooters getting 5 shot groups of a half inch at 50 yards with iron sights. Now 90+% of them have aftermarket barrels, triggers and sights. But I still think if you got an extremely lucky nice stock shooter it could be done.

Like I said earlier, he is just a hell of a better shot then I am. Hell of a lot better, and I have no problem admitting that.

I would have to be lucky to get nickel sized groups at 25 yards with iron sights on a stock 10/22.

Edit: The only things that would lead me to believe BS as well is the fact that he states that his results are just "pretty good" and about what he expected...

I agree that it's not impossible (well it would be for me and my eyes\shooting ability!

), but it seems very unlikely considering everything he stated. Not only would it take a very skilled shooter and a very lucky combo of great factory barrel using ammo that barrel really likes, good range conditions, etc. but like you said, his ho hum attitude about it and the fact that he built this to go to an appleseed shoot which doesn't scream experienced shooter to me?

Maybe his idea of a "group" is 3 shots and maybe he only did that 2 or 3 times out of 10? That would still be very good shooting but not the same as multiple 5 or 10 shot groups with the same results

Maybe he's telling the truth and if he is, I'm sorry for raising the flag but I'm really doubting it all things considered.

I apologize to the poster that has a reading comprehension problem. I take it for granted that I can read and comprehend what I read. I forget that there are others that can't.

Posted: 11/5/2009 9:05:34 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The fact that someone would question a person's firearm experience due to their interest in Appleseed is just plain asinine.

I don't see anyone questioning your firearm experience due to Appleseed interest...

Quoted:
It seems to shoot pretty good. I sighted it in with the cheap Remington Target 40 gr. from Walmart. I could maintain nickle sized groups at 50 yards from the bench. That's about as good as I expected.

I see a ton of people questioning you for this, because this is insanely good shooting. And it is almost unbelievable shooting for a Ruger 10/22 with factory barrel with iron sights.

Quoted:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g48/Old_Town/target1.jpg

And this is a long long long ways from stated above and why people were asking questions. The problem is that there are a ton of people online, and on this sight who claim to be expert marksmen and drill 6 inch targets at 800 meters all day, and yadda yadda yadda... So when people claim to do something that is FANTASTIC shooting, you will be doubted until it is proved.

You're right. That group is a long way from nickle sized. This one below however is really close. I like how you post the largest group as the basis for your lame ass argument.

With the exception of one shot, it is indeed a nickle sized group. Four shot groups are acceptable as a group are they not???

Posted: 11/5/2009 11:05:00 AM EDT

[#24]

I measure by 10 shot groups myself.

2 weeks ago I shot a 10 round group. The first 7 made a single raggedy hole you could easily cover with a dime and have extra room to spare. The next 3 spread it out to about an inch.

But yes... If you want to count 4 or 5 shot groups you had one group ALMOST the size of a nickel out of 3 you showed, yet previously you said you could "MAINTAIN" nickel sized groups. That would lead people to believe you were shooting nickel sized groups repeatedly... Yet you have yet to show 1.

Posted: 11/5/2009 12:10:05 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Well, I made it back to the range today, and though I didn't manage any nickle size groups the gun is capable of it. The Remington Target seemed to group better than did the Federal.

My original post seemed to start a shit storm of ridicule. I did not intend to piss anybody off of to boast in any way. My gun does shoot good. Factory barrels do sometimes. Maybe I was a bit coy with my first post.

Here are a few pictures from today....................

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g48/Old_Town/range1.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g48/Old_Town/target2.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g48/Old_Town/target1.jpg

David,

I am sorry that you have a reading problem. Maybe you should try "Hooked On Phonics" . I should have said in my first post that my gun shot nearly nickel sized groups. (which it does) but I still would have been dog piled and called a bullshitter and everything else. 10 shot groups? I'll bet you wear a belt and suspenders at the same time too.

Posted: 11/5/2009 12:13:35 PM EDT

[#26]

Oh no, I saw that part... How about you go up to your post at the top where you said you could maintain nickel size groups.

Just saying that you have claimed to be able to do one thing, and have shown no evidence...

Posted: 11/5/2009 1:24:28 PM EDT

[#27]

Nickel-sized group is 0.8350":

That's 0.6120" CTC if all shots are covered by the coin.

0.6120" = 1.224 MOA, if 0.5" = 1 MOA at 50 yards.

Good shooting, but not excellent as some posted here. I'd say a lucky 10/22 with trigger job makes that possible, though unlikely.

Posted: 11/5/2009 5:28:39 PM EDT

[#28]

My tech-sited/sling/otherwise stock stainless 10/22 will shoot nickle sized groups at 25 yards - off a table but no rest - just a sling with elbows on the table.

But I just spent every Sunday from April 'til now getting there.

At 50 they open up to about the OP's photos , at 100 I am working on 5 - 6 inch groups. .... low/right last Sunday ... I think it may be my eyes more than the rifle.

CCI standard LR , lead.

But - I temper my frustration with the fact that it'd still be a 100 yard head shot if i were Zombie hunting. ––-

My Ruger shoots better than I do , Appleseed Shoots made me a better shooter. Shooting stuff is fun.

Now - my offhand shooting - Massive suck. . ... crosslegged - minor suck , prone - pretty good for me.

Posted: 11/5/2009 5:43:29 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
My tech-sited/sling/otherwise stock stainless 10/22 will shoot nickle sized groups at 25 yards - off a table but no rest - just a sling with elbows on the table.

But I just spent every Sunday from April 'til now getting there.

At 50 they open up to about the OP's photos , at 100 I am working on 5 - 6 inch groups. .... low/right last Sunday ... I think it may be my eyes more than the rifle.

CCI standard LR , lead.

But - I temper my frustration with the fact that it'd still be a 100 yard head shot if i were Zombie hunting. ––-

My Ruger shoots better than I do , Appleseed Shoots made me a better shooter. Shooting stuff is fun.

Now - my offhand shooting - Massive suck. . ... crosslegged - minor suck , prone - pretty good for me.

I hear you about offhand. I suck too. I used to be better. I think I drink too much coffee these days.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Appleseed Liberty Training Rifle

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