OK, looks like we are starting from scratch on this one.

So far I've got 1k through my 2nd generation R22.  It's turning into my safe queen.  It's not without faults, but most of the problems I'm seeing on mine are simply assembly details like loose bolts and barrel nuts.

Yes, the stock material is poor, and I'm desperately hoping for a factory upgrade for the next generation in a better material.

Another purchaser here in the Peoples Republic of Kanada has had an unusual problem.  He's getting about a 95% misfire rate.  

He's checked the firing pin tip and travel.
He's checked that the barrel is niether screwed in too much or too little.

We're now beginning to wonder if it might be an out of spec bolt holding the firing pin to high on the case.  The firing pin mark is on the extreme edge of the case.

Anyone else have a similar problem?

I tend to think the problem would lie with the bolt as I can not imagine an out of spec reciever allowing too much slop.


Mods, this gun is new and we need to be able to discuss problems and solutions.  A natural outcome of this trouble shooting is likely to be improvements incorporated into the next generation R22.  Rhineland has bent over backwards with his customers, and I wouldn't want to see that co-operation end.  I promise we will try our best to keep discussion of sales out of this thread, but we're going to need a little slack.

I took my new R22 to the range and had many stovepipes, the new hotlips seemed worse for performance than an old steel lips.

95% misfire sounds like something else is going very wrong for your buddy, a phone call to Rhineland seems in order.

Mine seemed to fire about 5 to 20 in a row without a problem and then it would stop sometimes with spent brass and unfired rounds in the reciever jamming up.

I did not look closely at the firing pin marks on the brass, but I will check that out next time.

By the way I have only used American Eagle 40 grain in the rifle so far, what are you using?

Have you tried the Volquartsen Exact Edge Extractor that I have heard about? this is supposed to help, it could be a inexpensive fix.

I'm getting 100% reliability using Federal #710 Gameshock 40 gr copper plated solids, and Federal#745C Champion 36gr plated hollowpoints out of Butler Creek Steel lips mags.

There is no need to swap extractors as I'm not having any problems.

.

Moving question to the other thread as not to hijack
this one.

If the firing pin is hitting to high the "BB trick" may help. Do a search in rimfirecentral. In a nut shell a BB or something simular in size is wedged into the fireing pin channel above the pin at the chamber end. this prevents the firing pin from "jumping up" (hitting the extreme edge of the rim) when it is struck by the hammer. The 10-22 guys do this to improve reliability and to cut down on flyers.

Good luck.

We pin the bolt to hold the front of the firing pin down, but sometimes we get some pretty big burs that keep the pin down and then after a couple rounds it goes away and the pin rides up. This could be one of the cuases.

Also, check the position of the barrel on the inside in relation to the receiver. Here is a pic showing were it is supposed to be. One of my helpers screwed the barrels in a bit too far on a couple rifles. The yellow area shows were that barrel is supposed to be in relation to that protrustion, it can be plus or minus 1/16"


We are working to get the threads back.

Quoted: I took my new R22 to the range and had many stovepipes, the new hotlips seemed worse for performance than an old steel lips. Mine seemed to fire about 5 to 20 in a row without a problem and then it would stop sometimes with spent brass and unfired rounds in the reciever jamming up. Have you tried the Volquartsen Exact Edge Extractor that I have heard about? this is supposed to help, it could be a inexpensive fix.

t2005:

That sounds pretty familiar to me. I have a 1.5 gen rifle that I got last summer; I consistently have stovepipe issues, but at their worst they won't go above 20%. Usually in the 5-10% range, tho I've gone probably more than 30 rounds at times with no errors. Anyway, another user here (I forget who, the thread is gone) with an early rifle installed the VQ extractor, and was pretty successful with that. The other day I ordered a VQ "exact edge extractor" for $19 after shipping, it's coming from Iowa. It'll likely be here Monday or Tuesday at the latest, and I can try it out and let you know how successful it was.

Also, on my mags, I have two hotlips and one steel lips, 2 of those mags are pretty good, but one of my hotlips mags is a problem one. It'll want to feed low into the chamber and when it jams it takes a bite out of the end of the bullet.

I've got eight newish Steel lips mags.  Four smoked that are recent production, and four older export clear.  The newer mags lock in better, but they all work 100% with the right ammo.

I to am have the firing pin hitting the very edge of the rim.
I have a fired case that i am putting back on the bolt and have
found that when inserted back into the chamber that the round
is sitting too far down on the face to get a good hit from the pin.
also looking at the case in the bolt it looks like the bolt was cut for
a 22 mag as there is a lot of room around the rim.

anyone else tried what i am talking about?

ETA: I can see why now that i am also getting stovepipes as
the extractor barely has a grip on the rim with it sitting low on the
bolt.

Here is a picture of  what I call the high stove pipe. This is were the bullet went higher than the chamber entrance. If you are using the BUTLER CREEK hotlips mags this is caused by either the mag not yet being broken in or the mag catch not seated below the magazines rear lug. This is assuming the barrel is in correct. If you are using some other mag, it can be all sorts of different problems. Also, remember to use highpower ammo for the break in period. Winchester and Federal Champion are very low power ammo.



We have noticed and that the Ruger bolts form the factory sometimes have realy messed up extractors but we usually catch those.

Quoted: I to am have the firing pin hitting the very edge of the rim. I have a fired case that i am putting back on the bolt and have found that when inserted back into the chamber that the round is sitting too far down on the face to get a good hit from the pin. also looking at the case in the bolt it looks like the bolt was cut for a 22 mag as there is a lot of room around the rim. anyone else tried what i am talking about? ETA: I can see why now that i am also getting stovepipes as the extractor barely has a grip on the rim with it sitting low on the bolt.

I have the same problem HelaMonster
Here is some pics of my bolt face
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/skinkious/bolt/Picture.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/skinkious/bolt/Picture001.jpg
Its hard to make out in the pictures but the case of the round is not sitting in the right part of the bolt. If I manually put a round on the bolt, I can watch as the round chambers it moves on the bolt and away from the pin. Its not a problem of the pin moving in the bolt. I think its a problem with bolt  not being alighned with the chamber

There are several ways to control the hight of the firing pin, even though it looks like you cant.

Here is another way to change the "angle" of the bolt. There is a set screw that holds the recoil spring in place. By baking that out 1 complete turn that can cuase the bolt to line up better and get that firing pin to hit dead on. We have a pretty thin margin on that firing pin strike but its there.

If you cant get the handgaurds back on after baking that set screw out, let me know and I will get one to you.

Skinkious, check out my last email.

I am still convinced the firing pin is the problem, going by the pics. It looks like the angle of the firing pin is wrong, judging by no brass marks on the lower section. The powder marks are fine for a R22.

Hey, I've got a question for everyone - anyone have an idea why my R22 will load up an empty clip (or a clip with a single round in it) absolutely fine, clicks right in, whereas a full 10-rdr is hard to get seated properly?

I backed the stud out one round and placed a fired round in the
chamber. It has made the firing pin strike much better and I will
test this out tomorrow at the range.

Try this out it may solve your problems.

Can we see a picture of the recoil set screw so I know what to look for before I take everything apart again?  Thanks!

Also, where SHOULD the firing pin impact on the round?

just got back from the range and I can say that this is
the most rounds that the R22 has fired in a row plus I only
had 2 side ways stovepipes.

As I was finishing up shooting I began looking for empty bass
and noticed that the pin was still a little high on the rim so I may go
1 more round out on the set screw.  I admit  that this is the best
performace from the R22 I have had and can not wait to get it completly
dial in because I already know that it is a tack driver for a .22

ETA: I have also noticed that CCI mini mags leave a small cresant sliver
of lead under the mag well.  Any one else notice this?

Quoted: Hey, I've got a question for everyone - anyone have an idea why my R22 will load up an empty clip (or a clip with a single round in it) absolutely fine, clicks right in, whereas a full 10-rdr is hard to get seated properly?

Because there's a lot more pressure on the top round, which is bearing against the underside of the bolt. If it's a real problem for you, try holding the bolt back as you insert the mag (looks like it would take three hands, but it can be done!).

I haven't noticed this as a particular problem with mine but now that you mention it, the empty mag IS a bit easier to insert at the end of the day! I've put in loaded mags a lot more than empty ones so I guess I consider the loaded feel "normal."

That makes sense.  Thanks Snake.

Well, with the help of Heli I figured out where the stud for the recoil spring was and discovered that it is at it's limit of adjustability, so I'm leaving that alone for now.

I had last week ordered a VQ Extractor and that showed up today (which is amazing considering I got free shipping).  So I installed that this evening.  Man, what a PITA it was getting the bolt back in.  But I made it ok with no wounds to show for it [thankfully].  I will be heading to the range this Friday (day off, woohoo!) and trying her out.  I tried some empties and it was extracting perfectly, much better than I saw with the stock extractor last night when I was fiddling, so I'm hopefully that my issue is taken care of.  Thanks all for your help and I'll keep you updated!

Quoted: I had last week ordered a VQ Extractor and that showed up today (which is amazing considering I got free shipping).  So I installed that this evening.  Man, what a PITA it was getting the bolt back in.  But I made it ok with no wounds to show for it [thankfully].  I will be heading to the range this Friday (day off, woohoo!) and trying her out.  I tried some empties and it was extracting perfectly, much better than I saw with the stock extractor last night when I was fiddling, so I'm hopefully that my issue is taken care of.  Thanks all for your help and I'll keep you updated!

What a conincidence, I ordered a VQ extractor last week, and it came today. I didn't get free shipping. I got $7 shipping. Hm. Anyway, I had them ship it to work, so I knew somebody would be there when it came. Then I left it in the car and the wife took the car to her evening class at the community college. But not the one that's 2 towns away, the one that's 3 towns, a hill and 2 more towns away. So I'll be sitting here waiting till she gets home. I had pulled the bolt out on this thing once before, actually for when a fire out of battery blew my stock extractor out and, thankfully, onto the bench where I found it. After the screwing around of getting the bolt out and back in, I think the extractor can be installed without removing the bolt. Admittedly, this is my first rifle that's in a rimfire , I'm told by the mother-in-law's-boyfriend that on his 10/22 its about the same with getting that bolt in and out. So, now it's quite dark out, and unless I want to piss off the neighbors or go shoot something that I'm not supposed to, I won't be trying out the extractor till tomorrow at the earliest.

ETA: While everybody's got their rifles all apart, anybody know of a softer bolt buffer? Not for the impact, but for the sound. Some sort of polyurethane or something...? Something from a different rifle that's similar maybe?

Quoted: I tried some empties and it was extracting perfectly, much better than I saw with the stock extractor last night when I was fiddling, so I'm hopefully that my issue is taken care of.

That was my experience, too. Just fiddling with cases and the extractor/bolt, the VQ ex seemed to be holding them MUCH firmer than the stock part. And so it proved out in actual shooting, with stovepipes dropping from about 30% or more to about 5%--and I am still using the original ejector (there is supposed to be an improved ejector now, but Thomas hasn't sent me one yet).

kas -

The bolt buffer thing has been discussed before but I don't think anything has come of it.  One of my 10/22 buddies here just recently got a new poly buffer along with the VQ ex and says it's great.  It'd be nice...He actually said to just go buy a chunk of polyurethane and cut it down to fit - do you guys suppose that'd work?

Snake -

Same buddy also picked up a VQ Ejector @ the same time - said it's pretty tasty.  Will a VQ ejector from a 10/22 work in the R22 same as their extractor or has that been modified to a degree where one from RA is necessary?

Has anyone ever tried Aguila Super Max Solids in their R22?

Quoted: Snake - Same buddy also picked up a VQ Ejector @ the same time - said it's pretty tasty.  Will a VQ ejector from a 10/22 work in the R22 same as their extractor or has that been modified to a degree where one from RA is necessary?

I don't believe the 10/22 and R22 ejectors are the same at all, but I've never compared them so I could be wrong about that. At any rate, in both 10/22 and R22, the PRIMARY ejector is a nub on the magazine--look at a factory mag and you'll see what I mean. Not all aftermarket magazines have it, in which case the case ejects off the ejector in the gun. My R22 seems to run best with mags with the built-in ejector, such as the factory Ruger mag.

Hearing about all these problems I guess I’m lucky that they didn’t bother to ship me the one that I ordered even though for a few months they would leave messages, several times, on my voice mail saying my R22 was ready and would ship out on Tuesday.  My card was never charge and my dealer never got the R22 from them.

I hope they get the problems fixed for everyone that has one...

So do I, labrat, so do I.

Well, tonight I picked up a Harris bipod and adapter for the R22.  Damn does it ever look sweet hanging off the front.  I'll post a pic or two later :) I busted off the sling swivel tab that came with the adapter but that's ok as I'm not ever planning to put a sling on this rifle - just the bipod.

Anywho, that's it for now.  I'm just waiting bouncing up and down for range day Friday.  My boss is checking out for Thanksgiving tomorrow so maybe I'll cut out early and try popping off a few rounds tomorrow.  

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/4/web/220000-220999/220161_39_full.jpg

Like I mentioned, I did get the VQ extractor. I installed it this evening after work. I didn't get on the computer till late tho, and im quite tired, so I'll share my results a bit later. Not able to shoot it tonight, so just installation really.

Did you have to make any blood sacrifices kas?  :)

Hey, does anyone know of a handle that clamps to the Picy rail?  Something similar to the AR?

Quoted: Did you have to make any blood sacrifices kas?  :) Hey, does anyone know of a handle that clamps to the Picy rail?  Something similar to the AR?

Hah no blood sacrifices to this one yet. Lots to cars tho. Yeah, getting that bolt in isn't a day on the lake. From what I understand, 10/22s are the same. Wouldnt know.

I too was wondering about some sort of handle on that rail, but my idea came from Barrett's rifles. Those rifles have a nice long rail along the top not at all unlike what our guy Thomas did. In some ads and on their website you can see some rifles with a handle that mounts on that rail. It's not AR style, rather I think more FAL SAW style. However I've gotten nowhere trying to find out if this part would work on this rail and if so if I can get it anywhere.

As for that extractor: Last night I inspected the original extractor and found that the tip of the... "claw" didn't sit exactly on the rim, but rather maybe 0.010" above the rim, allowing, among I'm sure other things, the ability for me to tilt the cartridge about 10 degrees back and forth before the rim would be touching the business end of the extractor. After pulling the extractor out and comparing the two, I could see the VQ part was cut just a little different to bring the tip down just a little. I didn't think to measure the difference, altho I had my digital caliper sitting right there. I installed the new VQ piece and also used the slightly longer VQ spring, and checked again with some spent cartridges, now there's no wiggling available and the extractor holds it well, right on the rim. I'm confident that this is better and I think should improve the overall function. The difference between the two parts is much too small to photograph, but if I had been thinking, I may have been able to photograph the way I was able to tilt the cartridge with the old extractor installed, as compared to the new one.

Gave a call to Bushmaster about carry handles and here's what I found out - their detachable carry handles from the A3 style ARs ("flat-tops") will mount on a Picatinny rail, so...

Any AR15 detachable carry handle *should* work on our rifle.  I've seen them for as low as $35 online, I'll keep searching for a lower price.  I may do a photoshop as well to see what it might look like (unless someone else wants to :) ).

I can see if the cheap AR carry handle works on the R22, but frankly I don't know why you'd want to crap up the gun with one. One of the great things about the R22 is you don't NEED the stupid high sight line of the AR.

Will try to remember to test it tonight and post later.

The one I want isn't an AR style at all. The one I'm looking at can be found on the following page:
http://www.barrettrifles.com/rifles/rifles_82A1e.htm
On this diagram they're calling it a "carrying handle" but every nut seems to be $10, making the carrying handle assembly like $150. For that price, NO THANKS. I don't see why it doesnt cost $25... but yeah, thats the part that I think would be cool.

That handle makes sense on a 35 pound Barrett, but why would you need it on a 6.5 pound .22?

Doesn't look like it would be too hard to make something just like it out of an old Weaver clone scope ring and some kind of junk from Walmart, maybe a $3 paint roller or something.

If toting the gun around is hard for you, maybe you could mount a set of those little luggage wheels on the stock?

Quoted: That handle makes sense on a 35 pound Barrett, but why would you need it on a 6.5 pound .22? Doesn't look like it would be too hard to make something just like it out of an old Weaver clone scope ring and some kind of junk from Walmart, maybe a $3 paint roller or something. If toting the gun around is hard for you, maybe you could mount a set of those little luggage wheels on the stock?

Eh, cause it looks cool? Actually I have photos of me including the rifle as part of a costume at a private haloween party, most of the time held one-handed with the sling wrapped around my wrist.

OK, Rhineland or anyone else that might know......

I'm hoping to ge a new factory stock soon.  One idea I had to strengthen it was to coat the back of the reciever with release compound, and fill the stock interface with bedding compound.

Stupid idea, or would it add to the strength of the area most likely to suffer damage???

Ok, range report time.

I went last night and this morning to the range.  Last night the gun would not fire at all.  I only had Federal 810s (the 100-rd box version of the recommended 710 load) on hand.  This was both in Eagle and the supplied Hot Lips 10-rdrs.

So I took the gun apart at home and did the recommended fix of backing out the stud.  At this point the handguard assembly would not fit on the gun, but that didn't matter for testing purposes.  In using some empties I saw no difference between the adjusted and unadjusted recoil stud.  So I adjusted it the opposite direction and it got a little better.  I found that one turn inward gave me the best performance on empties.

On the way to the range this morning I picked up some Winchester SuperX load X22LR just for something different.  This ammo proved to be far more reliable than the Federal 810 but it was not without its faults.  My belief is that the X22LR has a more sensitive priming compound than the 810.  Why do I believe that you wonder?  Because even with the adjustment the firing pin is still only GRAZING the rim of the round.  I took it apart three times @ the range and tried different levels of adjustment and none of them seemed to have any effect at all.  I also tried several different types of ammo separate from the WinX22LR and Fed810.  I tried rounds from the "Golden Bullet" bulk pack, the Remington Thunderbolt, and some other kinds of Rem and Fed that my buddies had.  None worked as well as the X22LR(most in fact did not fire at all no matter what I did).  In all cases the firing pin was just grazing the round.

My plan right now is to talk to Rhineland and see what they think.  It seems to me that something is up that I cannot fix without new parts, or something is up that I cannot fix period.  In any case I hope that they'll either be supplying me with some replacement parts (as they have said they would but have failed to do) or have me send the gun in to them for repair.

More as the situation develops.

Quoted: Ok, range report time. I went last night and this morning to the range.  Last night the gun would not fire at all.  I only had Federal 810s (the 100-rd box version of the recommended 710 load) on hand.  This was both in Eagle and the supplied Hot Lips 10-rdrs. So I took the gun apart at home and did the recommended fix of backing out the stud.  At this point the handguard assembly would not fit on the gun, but that didn't matter for testing purposes.  In using some empties I saw no difference between the adjusted and unadjusted recoil stud.  So I adjusted it the opposite direction and it got a little better.  I found that one turn inward gave me the best performance on empties. On the way to the range this morning I picked up some Winchester SuperX load X22LR just for something different.  This ammo proved to be far more reliable than the Federal 810 but it was not without its faults.  My belief is that the X22LR has a more sensitive priming compound than the 810.  Why do I believe that you wonder?  Because even with the adjustment the firing pin is still only GRAZING the rim of the round.  I took it apart three times @ the range and tried different levels of adjustment and none of them seemed to have any effect at all.  I also tried several different types of ammo separate from the WinX22LR and Fed810.  I tried rounds from the "Golden Bullet" bulk pack, the Remington Thunderbolt, and some other kinds of Rem and Fed that my buddies had.  None worked as well as the Thunderbolt (most in fact did not fire at all no matter what I did).  In all cases the firing pin was just grazing the round. My plan right now is to talk to Rhineland and see what they think.  It seems to me that something is up that I cannot fix without new parts, or something is up that I cannot fix period.  In any case I hope that they'll either be supplying me with some replacement parts (as they have said they would but have failed to do) or have me send the gun in to them for repair. More as the situation develops.

I have the same exact problem phobos512, I'm giving up on mine and sending it back

What do you mean by giving up and sending it back?  For repair or for good?  I want mine fixed and I want some response from Rhineland on these issues - is this thread taboo for them to reply in or something?

Quoted: What do you mean by giving up and sending it back?  For repair or for good?  I want mine fixed and I want some response from Rhineland on these issues - is this thread taboo for them to reply in or something?

Email em.

Alright clowns, time for a range report.

First a little history of my rifle. The whole time I've had it (going for almost 6 months now?) the one problem I've had is stovepipes. Not that frequent, but. I've been watching people in here say for a long time, over and over, how they got the VQ extractor and it solved the problem. Alright, so I ordered it. Installed it a couple evenings ago on the coffee table. Used the longer (and stronger?) spring that also came with it. So I made it out to the range this morning. A new problem cropped up immediately that I didn't have before: feeding problems. Feeding high, feeding low, 1/3 of the time feeding incorrectly in some way. It sucked. After a couple minutes of this I wondered if it had something to do with the different ammo I was using. I went back to an ammo I knew it liked: Federal Champion bulk pack. Instantly all the feeding problems went away. Huh, whadya know. Alright, so continued on. After a couple hundred rounds, the gun was up and running at  or nearly 100%, something that had always seemed just barely out of reach before. Seriously, I'd have one error of any type in 100 rds, and that'd be like the rounds got stuck in the mag, or a dud primer. I went back to the problem ammo a couple times, and problems would start creeping back in. I had several different types of ammo on hand today, and it ate em all up with no problem, except the one it didn't like was Federal Target, in the red box. Other Federal stuff, including Federal Champion, worked fine, there was CCI MiniMags and CCI Standard Velocity, Remington Subsonic, something called Gold Medal that I think was Federal or Winchester, ummm, and a couple others too that I don't remember. It liked the Federal Champion and CCI MiniMags the best, in my opinion, but it liked almost everything really. I blasted away for hours. I ran out of paper to shoot up. That extractor was definitely worth it, and I'm happy as a clam with it.

I have a R22 in 17m2 and have not had any FTF or FTE issues - its running 100% for me - the only small nuisance is that the 10 rnd mags are a pain to remove.  It is a real tack driver!

Does anyone know if the R22 bolt is the exact same as the 10/22?
I'm ordering a custom one to see if it helps with my problems.
Everything I have seen indicates it, just wondering if anyone has compared the two side by side
Thx

OK, so I have to ask.

Who else has had an issue with the latest generation R22?

My own gun ran perfect once the bolts were tightened and the mag catch roll pin was centered.

Others in the same shipment have suffered chronic high primer strikes leading to 95% misfire rates.  Quite a few have found the area at the top of the magwell where the hammer comes to rest cracking.  As the area serves no purpose, I don't see a huge issue with simply Dremmeling it out, but that's another issue.

My only issue has been the quality of the current stock, and the quality control in assembly.

However, of the 50 guns that have made it to Canada so far, there are several with it seems chronic problems.  I'm not seeing the same volume of complaints on the US boards, so I wonder if we just got a shipment with an abnormally high rate of problems.

Is that the case, or are there others in the US suffering in silence?