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Posted: 8/21/2010 8:52:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Generally, I like to stick with tactical tailor stuff as it offers a good combination of price and quality. However, I picked up some MOLLE gear on cheaperthandirt and they turned out to be condor. In particular, I got the 2 mag shingles for AR15. They've got the bungee retainers just like the Tactical tailor ones, but at about 1/2 the price. Also got their BOK, again, half the price. Both pieces seem to be pretty good quality after inspection. Durable materials, nice stitch work, not flimsy at all. I still haven't gotten to the point where I trust getting the Condor plate carrier they sell on CTD. So I was wondering, what is the general consensus on Condor gear? Normal Chicom crap? or good budget alternative? It's budget chinese made stuff that replicates well designed gear. Net result is something that looks good and will work great for occasional use. Tons of it ends up on fighting rigs overseas (E3/E4's don't get paid that great), and it works for the most part. That said, quality gear has never seemed to me as anything other than worth the extra expenditure. Remember, once you put loaded magazines in those pouches you've quadrupled their value at least. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 11:09:46 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't know if it can be called airsoft per se, but it's basically a knock off of the "main" manufacturers' products.
Go cheap and replace or get good stuff for the long haul. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 11:44:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Its nothing more than cheap rip offs of other manufacturers stuff. they can copy designs (like TAD jackets and etc) but they can't replicate the quality, especially at the prices that their gear costs.
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Posted: 8/21/2010 1:14:21 PM EDT
[#4]
yes or no answers aside...their stuff just does not hold up to hard use. That said if you're going to just put something together to use it for a few carbine classes a year or a lifetimes or something like that then it'll probably work for you. But for me, I'll stick with the more expensive gear for my line of work. YMMV
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Posted: 8/21/2010 1:20:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Its nothing more than cheap rip offs of other manufacturers stuff. they can copy designs (like TAD jackets and etc) but they can't replicate the quality, especially at the prices that their gear costs. Some of the over priced TAD stuff is made in China too. AZHONKY |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 1:33:40 PM EDT
[#6]
In addition to Eagle, HSGI and all the other "Tier 1" manufacturers (did I just say "Tier 1? Yeesh
 ) the National Tactical Officer's Association (NTOA) has a number of Condor items on their "approved" list (more of a recommendation).
Member Tested and Recommended Program
Recognizing the need for an objective evaluation of law enforcement products, NTOA created the MTRP in 2002. Its goal is to assist NTOA members and the law enforcement community in selecting the best products on the market. In addition, we provide manufacturers with a forum for testing products under real-world conditions. Through the program, we supply feedback to the manufacturer that might be used to enhance their product. Member Tested Online Database Welcome to the NTOA's Member Tested and Recommended online database, the most comprehensive product review database in law enforcement. What is the Member Tested and Recommended Program? This program allows manufacturers to have their products tested in the field by the law enforcement community. Results are published on our website and in our quarterly journal, The Tactical Edge. How do I submit a product for testing? A manufacturer will provide the NTOA with 2-4 samples of a product. The testing fee is $200 per product. Ship products to the NTOA using the Product Submission Form (click here). Can I read the product reviews? NTOA members can read reviews. Non-members can only see what products have been tested. http://www.ntoa.org/mtp/public/mtpd.php Products are tested and scored in 13 possible categories on a scale of 0 to 5. 5 - Excellent Defined as a product that performs at a level above advertised specifications and demonstrates its usefulness and quality of workmanship every time it is used and can be used for other purposes. 4 - Very Good Defined as a product that exceeds advertised specifications on a regular basis and outperforms others in usefulness and quality of workmanship. 3 - Average Defined as a product the meets minimum advertised specifications, has practical use, but does not go above or beyond the scope of quality or usefulness that is expected. 2 - Fair Defined as a product that has occasional applications and in some situations meets advertised specifications, but overall is not effective. 0-1 - Poor Defined as a product that does not meet minimum advertised specifications needed to make the product useful, product does meet any of its practical purposes. NOTICE: Please note that this is not a product endorsement from the NTOA, it is a recommendation by a field tester for the law enforcement community. The NTOA Member Tested and Recommended program is designed as a service to assist the association's membership in selecting the best products available to the tactical community. NTOA does not provide a warranty, expressed or implied, or guarantee any of the products that have been tested and approved. NTOA assumes no liability for the use or misuse of any of the featured products. Ratings & Regulations A product must have the ability to be rated in at least six categories. In addition to the numerical rating a short paragraph identifying the advantages and disadvantages of the product must be submitted. Products will be tested by at least two field testers. Products receiving a rating of 3.0 or higher will receive NTOA Field Tester Recommended Status and be allowed to affix the NTOA Member Tested & Recommended Logo to the product materials. Products that score lower then 3.0 will not receive approval. Test results will be sent to the company. If you would like to become a Field Tester please fill out the participation form. Field Tester must hold a current NTOA individual or team membership. Rating can also have the point system (i.e.: 2.5, 6.9, etc.) From these numbers, an average will be taken from each category by the 2 or 3 reviewers' ratings. The rating categories are: Design Performance Ease of Use Size Quality Durability Storage Versatility Convenience Application for Law Enforcement Comfort Cleaning/ Maintenance Accuracy Let's face it - while movies like SWAT have Joe and Jane Public believing that every PD has a full-time tactical unit, the vast majority of tac teams around the country are made up of street and bureau cops who train together (hopefully more than once a month) and get called out for incidents while engaged in their regular PD duties. You don't want crap, but you don't necessarily need the ultimate $$$$$$ gear that someone who's kicking doors three times per shift day does. That, and many of the p/t SWAT guys pay for much of their own gear, since it's not their "primary job" of patrol or bureau. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 1:35:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Condor gear is good gear for range use, for attending courses with, and decent for short term break down in ROL. Some of Condor's newer gear is even produced in the United States of America not all of it is from China. The only real gripes I have about it is that I don't believe they are using actual Condura Nylon and the plastic buckles they use aren't advertised as IR resistant and seem pretty low par compared to some of the other more expensive alternatives. Plastic buckles can actually show up pretty good under IR so and although their version of Condura seems pretty good I'd be hesistant to use it against any serious enemy. Let's be honest though. 90% of the folks here don't purchase gear to go to war with and the likelyhood of a U.S. invasion is pretty slim. So Condor is pretty good for getting you through what you need it to do. Longevity might be an issue, but that's the case every time you purchase a less expensive item. The nice thing is that you can get the stuff in Multicam and it should give you a pretty decent service life for normal use. Most civis and LEO here would be fine with it. Don't let the Gear Queens convice you that everything you have must be top of the line Crye Precision, Eagle, and so forth. For some folks that's just overkill and you'd be better spreading your money out and being well rounded. If you're spending tons of money on gear at the cost of being able to afford that carbine course you were thinking about or that real nice upgrade to your rifle than you're not thinking smart. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 2:16:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for all the feedback~
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Posted: 8/21/2010 2:40:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Is Condor gear really airsoft?
No, it's not that good. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 2:55:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Depends, i use some of their stuff seriously(read professionally) and it did fine
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Posted: 8/21/2010 3:00:11 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm starting to get the feeling that Condor is more or less like Del-Ton or something along those lines for AR parts; people who want me to go Eagle, etc are same as those who tell me I have to get a Nightforce Scope on a Larue mount?
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Posted: 8/21/2010 3:10:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I'm starting to get the feeling that Condor is more or less like Del-Ton or something along those lines for AR parts; people who want me to go Eagle, etc are same as those who tell me I have to get a Nightforce Scope on a Larue mount? Pretty much, as you see you have .mil guys here who said they have used it hard and it working and you have people who just say "It's junk" and post nothing else constructive or could be construed as helpful. If you are going to be doing light stuff I see no reason it would not work, I have a Galls premade tac vest, I know I will probably never use it more than 2 times a year if that, So I have no need for high dollar gear that is gonna sit, Now if I was going to Iraq or someplace where I'm patrolling and getting shot at etc, I would pay the extra that way I don't need to buy and replace. Dont Worry I know how you feel. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 5:29:57 PM EDT
[#13]
I was a vendor at a gun show in Texarkana, Ark about a year back and I had a lot of Condor gear on my table. At this show a LEO with the State Patrol who happened to be on there S.W.A.T. team and help put together there S.W.A.T. round up in Little Rock, Ark was browsing my table. He and a few other LEO liked the Condor line so much they invited us to be a vendor at there S.W.A.T. round up. At the same convention/ round up was 5.11, Blackwawk and a few others.
Price and quality. That is why it was even a consideration. Are there better manufactuers out there yes. But they have attached a price tag to it. I do have to say one of the downsides of Condor is there lack of communication with vendors when they are out of stock or when they are restocked. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 6:33:08 PM EDT
[#14]
Look, bottom line is Condor is average quality gear, nothing spectacular, but nothing terrible either. I think unless you are kicking down mud hut doors in the Stan, or patrolling the streets at night, Condor is going to be perfectly acceptable for what you need. I have a bunch of their gear from plate carriers to packs and everything has held up fine, and the prices are half of some of the better shit out there. I have an Eagle MOLLE pack and to be honest, my Condor pack is close in quality. I'll get flamed for that but oh well. I paid $50 for the Condor pack and almost $190 for the Eagle pack. It's a no brainer sometimes.
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Posted: 8/21/2010 7:17:52 PM EDT
[#15]
I have had about six of their M4 mag shingles for a few years now. They see some use. Not heavy use, but some.
They are really showing their age. I have to periodically hit the edges with a lighter because they fray badly. The sizing is pretty inconsistent; some of them swallow up AK mags, some are tight my AR mags. So is Condor junk? hrm... I've definitely gotten $6 worth out of each of them for my non-mil, non-LEO usage. But in comparison, I've had a Tactical Tailor multi-purpose pouch longer than the Condor stuff (it's in woodland camo it's so old!  ), and it shows none of the fraying and wear the mag shingles do. The TT MAV all these pouches ride on is none worse for wear as well.
You're not really saving much in the long run. In some cases you're getting more for less Case in point... $90 Condor Molle assault vest $85 Eagle LE active shooter chest rig With all the quality gear out there, I really wonder why Police Departments compromise so badly. I was surprised to read in this thread that Condor stuff is NTOA recommended. Why bother with a $40 condor vest, and $60 in various pouches when an Eagle chest rig can be had for $80? It's just bad economy. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 7:41:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Condor gear is good gear for range use, for attending courses with, and decent for short term break down in ROL.
Some of Condor's newer gear is even produced in the United States of America not all of it is from China. The only real gripes I have about it is that I don't believe they are using actual Condura Nylon and the plastic buckles they use aren't advertised as IR resistant and seem pretty low par compared to some of the other more expensive alternatives. Plastic buckles can actually show up pretty good under IR so and although their version of Condura seems pretty good I'd be hesistant to use it against any serious enemy. Let's be honest though. 90% of the folks here don't purchase gear to go to war with and the likelyhood of a U.S. invasion is pretty slim. So Condor is pretty good for getting you through what you need it to do. Longevity might be an issue, but that's the case every time you purchase a less expensive item. The nice thing is that you can get the stuff in Multicam and it should give you a pretty decent service life for normal use. Most civis and LEO here would be fine with it. Don't let the Gear Queens convice you that everything you have must be top of the line Crye Precision, Eagle, and so forth. For some folks that's just overkill and you'd be better spreading your money out and being well rounded. If you're spending tons of money on gear at the cost of being able to afford that carbine course you were thinking about or that real nice upgrade to your rifle than you're not thinking smart. +1 Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 8:14:54 PM EDT
[#17]
There are many ways to cut corners in production and still use 1000D nylon or, even, Cordura.
It's sole redeeming feature is price. But, FOR ME, I'd rather spend a bit more and get something that will last 5x as long. |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 8:39:11 PM EDT
[#18]
For the average joe that keeps a vest sitting in the closet on a hanger some 350~ish day out of the year condor will be fine. Unless your active military and using it 12 hours a day seven days a week or a full time swat officer then go for it.
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Posted: 8/21/2010 9:24:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
It's budget chinese made stuff that replicates well designed gear. <snip> +1 Shorty after I bought one of the surplus FLC's like what that SG and C-T-D had, I picked up a Condor dump pouch so that I could see if I really needed one: Condor Utility Roll-up Pouch I had a pretty good idea that they copied the design from someone; it just took some time to find the "original": Modular Roll-up Multi-purpose Pouch My personal experience with Condor has been somewhat lackluster. I bought one of their modular pistol holsters. On the positive side, it is adjustable enough to fit both a Sig P225 and a Beretta 92FS.  On the negative side, it had a tendency of unsnapping and dropping to the ground the first (and only) time I used it. To be fair, the other two items (the dump pouch and a pistol magazine pouch) have snaps that are more positive than the ones on the holster. Also, I was using the holster on an earlier ALICE LBV instead of something with MOLLE loops. But based on that episode, I have been replacing the few Condor items that I have with better quality items as time and money permits.
IMHO, Condor exists somewhere in that grey area between "airsoft" gear and "professional" gear, You can go to an airsoft store on one side of my hometown and buy Condor stuff. On the other side of the town, it is sold in a police-supply store. James |
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Posted: 8/21/2010 10:33:25 PM EDT
[#20]
I won't buy it because the slight cost savings isn't worth it to me when I see the inferior construction, materials, and overall durability. I have no doubt they would hold up to occasional use, but the overall quality isn't there. Besides that, the price difference is only marginal and with good gear you support American businesses and American jobs.
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Posted: 8/22/2010 4:53:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Really???? because all of the accurately priced TAD stuff that I have is all made in America. Bottom line is that you get what you pay for. I wont buy condor. I'd rather save up and buy the stuff that is quality made and will not fail.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its nothing more than cheap rip offs of other manufacturers stuff. they can copy designs (like TAD jackets and etc) but they can't replicate the quality, especially at the prices that their gear costs. Some of the over priced TAD stuff is made in China too. AZHONKY |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 6:28:12 AM EDT
[#22]
Im a LEO on a budget and have purchased multiple Condor pieces for an active shooter type kit. I also have my soft body armor in their quick detach vest for search warrant days. My buddy uses their drag bag as his rifle case for the sniper team. To be honest they are not wartime ready gear but like said before if you are not using the gear in a full time role Condor is fine and will last many years. Plus you can spend the rest of the money you saved on ammo.
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Posted: 8/22/2010 8:00:08 AM EDT
[#23]
We have a few guys in our Dept. that use Condor gear and like it. Granted, the amount it gets used is nowhere near combat troops and / or high speed types. We are more low speed high drag (LEOs) so the gear lasts longer.
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Posted: 8/22/2010 8:11:55 AM EDT
[#24]
I have found from personal experience that most law enforcement have to buy there own gear. And there are a lot of you on here so you can attest to this. The smaller the department , the less of a budget. So the guy that is out there patrolling has to be able to buy groceries and there gear.
Talking to the wife about buying a $300.00 vest set up can become quiet uncomfortable. Im just saying :) |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 8:21:44 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm the occasional user, not a door-kicker and find the quality for the price a good thing. It's allowed me to round out my emergency kits without breaking the bank and equip the whole family. Sometimes it is hit or miss so you need to thoroughly check each one as you ad it to make ure that it will fit the bill when you need it.
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Posted: 8/22/2010 8:46:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Condor gear is good gear for range use, for attending courses with, and decent for short term break down in ROL.
Some of Condor's newer gear is even produced in the United States of America not all of it is from China. The only real gripes I have about it is that I don't believe they are using actual Condura Nylon and the plastic buckles they use aren't advertised as IR resistant and seem pretty low par compared to some of the other more expensive alternatives. Plastic buckles can actually show up pretty good under IR so and although their version of Condura seems pretty good I'd be hesistant to use it against any serious enemy. Let's be honest though. 90% of the folks here don't purchase gear to go to war with and the likelyhood of a U.S. invasion is pretty slim. So Condor is pretty good for getting you through what you need it to do. Longevity might be an issue, but that's the case every time you purchase a less expensive item. The nice thing is that you can get the stuff in Multicam and it should give you a pretty decent service life for normal use. Most civis and LEO here would be fine with it. Don't let the Gear Queens convice you that everything you have must be top of the line Crye Precision, Eagle, and so forth. For some folks that's just overkill and you'd be better spreading your money out and being well rounded. If you're spending tons of money on gear at the cost of being able to afford that carbine course you were thinking about or that real nice upgrade to your rifle than you're not thinking smart. I missed your post originally Silent but you hit it on the head. The gear queens on here will swear you must run Crye or Eagle on everything you do. For me, I don't need a $400 jacket here in Florida so a Condor fleece works fine for me. As I'm definately a patriot and will buy American every time I can, that being said, my "American made" Eagle MOLLE pack was made in the Dominican Republic. Just sayin. |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 9:25:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Condor gear is good gear for range use, for attending courses with, and decent for short term break down in ROL.
Some of Condor's newer gear is even produced in the United States of America not all of it is from China. The only real gripes I have about it is that I don't believe they are using actual Condura Nylon and the plastic buckles they use aren't advertised as IR resistant and seem pretty low par compared to some of the other more expensive alternatives. Plastic buckles can actually show up pretty good under IR so and although their version of Condura seems pretty good I'd be hesistant to use it against any serious enemy. Let's be honest though. 90% of the folks here don't purchase gear to go to war with and the likelyhood of a U.S. invasion is pretty slim. So Condor is pretty good for getting you through what you need it to do. Longevity might be an issue, but that's the case every time you purchase a less expensive item. The nice thing is that you can get the stuff in Multicam and it should give you a pretty decent service life for normal use. Most civis and LEO here would be fine with it. Don't let the Gear Queens convice you that everything you have must be top of the line Crye Precision, Eagle, and so forth. For some folks that's just overkill and you'd be better spreading your money out and being well rounded. If you're spending tons of money on gear at the cost of being able to afford that carbine course you were thinking about or that real nice upgrade to your rifle than you're not thinking smart. Excellent post, thank you |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 9:45:39 AM EDT
[#28]
I have a few bits and pieces of Condor and Voodoo mfd gear. The certainly look OK to the unaided eye, even on close inspection.
Like every piece of Gear I buy, every single piece of gear, no matter from whom bought/made is initially checked for dimensional correctness. If it's a water-bottle carrier or a mag pouch, it must carry what it's intended to do, first of all. Everything has to be attached in the right spot, and everything has to work as intended. After that comes overall QC check; the item is turned inside-out, and any loose threads/unravelling fabric is dealt with straight out of the box. Some small, but important defects are discovered this way. No substitute for seeing with one's own eyes. If the item fails either inspection, it goes back to the vendor for replacement or refund, depending. Now, if you own some lower-tier gear, say Condor or Voodoo, just for example, so what? Depending on the use to which you put the gear, that might be entirely appropriate. I agree that gear on which you might risk your life should be the best, period, but not every piece of kit is a potential death-trap, either. If I buy a Condor or Voodoo nalgene water-bottle carrier, assuming it passes the dimension and QC checks above, it's OK by me. After examining both products, I'm hard-pressed to see how the Condor/Voodoo water-bottle carrier is inferior to the first-line maker's identical item, sold for twice/thrice the price of the Condor/Voodoo. I buy Condor/Voodoo items for either for light duty use, or to fill some niche until I can get a first-line quality product. Maybe I'll find my concept/experiment wasn't so good, and all I'm out is the relatively trivial cost of the Condor/Voodoo product. FWIW, I wish that more users were honest with themselves, and bought gear that realistically met their needs. Might drive down the cost of first-tier gear, which would be a good thing for all. I'm sensitive to the "Buy American" argument, but in the long run, most consumers will vote with their wallets. If they percieve that an American product is the best value for their money, they will go with that. Labor costs being what they are, that's tough to do. I will go the "Buy American" route when it makes sense for me to do so, but I've got to think I'm getting a fair shake for my money. I can't afford to be a charity, and I ask for no charity, either. YMMV |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 10:42:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
I have a few bits and pieces of Condor and Voodoo mfd gear. The certainly look OK to the unaided eye, even on close inspection. Like every piece of Gear I buy, every single piece of gear, no matter from whom bought/made is initially checked for dimensional correctness. If it's a water-bottle carrier or a mag pouch, it must carry what it's intended to do, first of all. Everything has to be attached in the right spot, and everything has to work as intended. After that comes overall QC check; the item is turned inside-out, and any loose threads/unravelling fabric is dealt with straight out of the box. Some small, but important defects are discovered this way. No substitute for seeing with one's own eyes. If the item fails either inspection, it goes back to the vendor for replacement or refund, depending. Now, if you own some lower-tier gear, say Condor or Voodoo, just for example, so what? Depending on the use to which you put the gear, that might be entirely appropriate. I agree that gear on which you might risk your life should be the best, period, but not every piece of kit is a potential death-trap, either. If I buy a Condor or Voodoo nalgene water-bottle carrier, assuming it passes the dimension and QC checks above, it's OK by me. After examining both products, I'm hard-pressed to see how the Condor/Voodoo water-bottle carrier is inferior to the first-line maker's identical item, sold for twice/thrice the price of the Condor/Voodoo. I buy Condor/Voodoo items for either for light duty use, or to fill some niche until I can get a first-line quality product. Maybe I'll find my concept/experiment wasn't so good, and all I'm out is the relatively trivial cost of the Condor/Voodoo product. FWIW, I wish that more users were honest with themselves, and bought gear that realistically met their needs. Might drive down the cost of first-tier gear, which would be a good thing for all. I'm sensitive to the "Buy American" argument, but in the long run, most consumers will vote with their wallets. If they percieve that an American product is the best value for their money, they will go with that. Labor costs being what they are, that's tough to do. I will go the "Buy American" route when it makes sense for me to do so, but I've got to think I'm getting a fair shake for my money. I can't afford to be a charity, and I ask for no charity, either. YMMV I'm not likely yo ever need my gear, I'm about as low-speed/high drag as it gets. I have some better tier gear that I've gotten good deals on and it made sense to spend a little more, and I have some Voodoo Tactical gear as well. For my needs the Voodoo will likely be fine, and as you point out for non-essential gear like a water bottle holder or a rifle case used for transporting to the range, why not. Nice to see some well respected members step up and give detailed analysis. Too many people just say something is the suck without explaining why or recognizing that not everybody needs top shelf gear for every application. |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 11:47:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a few bits and pieces of Condor and Voodoo mfd gear. The certainly look OK to the unaided eye, even on close inspection. Like every piece of Gear I buy, every single piece of gear, no matter from whom bought/made is initially checked for dimensional correctness. If it's a water-bottle carrier or a mag pouch, it must carry what it's intended to do, first of all. Everything has to be attached in the right spot, and everything has to work as intended. After that comes overall QC check; the item is turned inside-out, and any loose threads/unravelling fabric is dealt with straight out of the box. Some small, but important defects are discovered this way. No substitute for seeing with one's own eyes. If the item fails either inspection, it goes back to the vendor for replacement or refund, depending. Now, if you own some lower-tier gear, say Condor or Voodoo, just for example, so what? Depending on the use to which you put the gear, that might be entirely appropriate. I agree that gear on which you might risk your life should be the best, period, but not every piece of kit is a potential death-trap, either. If I buy a Condor or Voodoo nalgene water-bottle carrier, assuming it passes the dimension and QC checks above, it's OK by me. After examining both products, I'm hard-pressed to see how the Condor/Voodoo water-bottle carrier is inferior to the first-line maker's identical item, sold for twice/thrice the price of the Condor/Voodoo. I buy Condor/Voodoo items for either for light duty use, or to fill some niche until I can get a first-line quality product. Maybe I'll find my concept/experiment wasn't so good, and all I'm out is the relatively trivial cost of the Condor/Voodoo product. FWIW, I wish that more users were honest with themselves, and bought gear that realistically met their needs. Might drive down the cost of first-tier gear, which would be a good thing for all. I'm sensitive to the "Buy American" argument, but in the long run, most consumers will vote with their wallets. If they percieve that an American product is the best value for their money, they will go with that. Labor costs being what they are, that's tough to do. I will go the "Buy American" route when it makes sense for me to do so, but I've got to think I'm getting a fair shake for my money. I can't afford to be a charity, and I ask for no charity, either. YMMV I'm not likely yo ever need my gear, I'm about as low-speed/high drag as it gets. I have some better tier gear that I've gotten good deals on and it made sense to spend a little more, and I have some Voodoo Tactical gear as well. For my needs the Voodoo will likely be fine, and as you point out for non-essential gear like a water bottle holder or a rifle case used for transporting to the range, why not. Nice to see some well respected members step up and give detailed analysis. Too many people just say something is the suck without explaining why or recognizing that not everybody needs top shelf gear for every application. To be fair, gear fron first-tier mfrs generally has fewer defects than from lower-tier mfrs, ans so has a lower return rate. OTOH, I have bought gear from first-tier mfrs that needed to be returned for defects that were not easily user-repairable. FWIW, I can repair some defects, but much more importantly, I take the time to look for them when the item is brand-new, and under warranty. GI/milsurp is the most demanding of one's time to sear/melt errant threads/fabric, but it is usually such a good value that this is not a big deal. Most GI issue gear is well-made, but poorly finished. Once the user has done his job, the GI gear rises considerably in value vs. money spent. Lastly, I hope you have not included me in the "well-respected" member category. I have made too many mistakes over the years, and also sanctioned too many Members to achieve that status. |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 3:24:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Lastly, I hope you have not included me in the "well-respected" member category. I have made too many mistakes over the years, and also sanctioned too many Members to achieve that status. So would it be OK to include you in the "quakes in boots when he appears" category?  
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Posted: 8/22/2010 3:24:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Before i was into real firearms, I was an airsoft geek, and all the gear people had in airsoft was Condor.
When i dropped airsoft and got into real stuff, and started training I couldn't believe people in the real steal world bought condor. I was so confused. I'll never go back to fake, cheap, ripped off gear, the real stuff is faaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr superior (and it should be for the cost). Even when I go out and play a few games with friends in the airsoft world, all my gear I have is the real deal. |
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Posted: 8/22/2010 10:03:01 PM EDT
[#33]
I've used mainly GI gear since I've been in and used maybe a few different pouches from other manufacturers. I've survived 7 years using 95% GI gear. The first time I've touched TT stuff was my order last month. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen any catastrophic failures with USGI pouches. Yeah, stuff gets rubbed raw and fades, the velcro might get all nasty or the snaps might not snap anymore, but I've never seen someone shove a mag in a pouch and see a giant explosion of nylon and buckles. While I think that the explosion of replica gear has made it harder to determine real gear or what is reliable, I think it's helped expand the selection for everyone. I'm perfectly okay with Condor gear: I have 7-8 random pouches from them and they all seem to be perfectly fine, no defects or messed up seams. The Tactical Tailor gear I just got si the same: great construction, no defects or anything.
I don't foresee the Condor pouches suddenly wearing out on me in the middle of no where. Maybe if I've been humping around for six months, hiding in swamps, doing my best Red Dawn impression, maybe it would be a concern that they would get ratty enough to fall apart. But I think that any brand of equipment would do that. It's not like big name vendors use some sort of super fabric that more "common" vendors don't have access to. If it's built correctly and is made out of quality materials, I see no reason to spend $40 on a pouch when I can get the same thing for $15. When it comes to more important things like a plate carrier, vest, etc., then I'm going to spend top dollar on that. It's going to be protecting my life and/or carrying all my gear. If a pouch fails, I can just spend $20 and buy another or just shove whatever it was holding in my pocket. If my vest falls apart.. well, I'm shiat out of luck. This is exactly why I don't shop at fad places like Abercrombie and Fitch: if I wanted jeans that were faded and had holes in them, I'd buy a pair of $20 Levis and do it myself, not pay $20 for the jeans and $80 for the name. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 6:37:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Condor does well at filling the niche market of people who want gear that looks like the top quality stuff without paying the associated cost. Fighting gear is like the tools used by members of any other profession. There are varying levels of quality and price and everyone's need for gear(if a need exists at all) is different but anyone who really needs it and expects to use it with any sort of regularity should be buying the best they can afford.
A full setup of Condor gear is equivalent to a shed full of powertools from Harbor Frieght. It'll be enough for relatively light, occaisional work but anyone who plans on using it for serious professional work is headed for a hard lesson in false economy. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 3:13:50 PM EDT
[#35]
I guess my biggest question revolves around this:
"If it fails, I'll just buy a new one. I mean, it's for SHTF, so I don't want to spend a lot of money on something that will sit in a closet." I understand about not spending money. Believe me. But the short-sighted and, frankly, ironic nature of the statement amuses me to no end. You want to spend practically no money on questionable quality gear that may or may not fail during the time in your existence that the ability to "just buy a new one" will be limited (at best) or non-existent (most likely)...gear that your life will depend on....and you go marginal airsoft quality? |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 3:47:53 PM EDT
[#36]
I wouldn't have a problem with it from a quality stand point, I am sure it would do its job and not fail under 99.99% of conditions.
My main problem is that the company rips off other companies' designs and gets away with it by making their product a) overseas b) just different enough to get away with. I have the same problem with CAA, UTG, NcStar, etc on the firearms end of the business. I find it in poor taste to support a company that actually copies a legitimate company's hard work and design. These rip-off companies are also part of the reason why quality brands must charge so much. |
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Posted: 8/23/2010 5:25:00 PM EDT
[#37]
I don't think that everyone makes every purchase based on whether or not they'll need it for SHTF. I have a Condor vest and mag pouches because I hate having to dig through a bag or stuff mags in my pocket at the range. I do have some top notch stuff but only buy it used for a good price. If those manufacturer's priced their products like they were nylon and thread, not gold, I'd be more inclined to purchase them. Not everyone is living FOR SHTF or makes a living as an operator.
What to hear a greater heresy??? I go shooting to have fun sometimes and not to train for TEOTWAWKI 
I'll get banned for that
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Posted: 8/23/2010 5:38:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
I don't think that everyone makes every purchase based on whether or not they'll need it for SHTF. I have a Condor vest and mag pouches because I hate having to dig through a bag or stuff mags in my pocket at the range. I do have some top notch stuff but only buy it used for a good price. If those manufacturer's priced their products like they were nylon and thread, not gold, I'd be more inclined to purchase them. Not everyone is living FOR SHTF or makes a living as an operator. What to hear a greater heresy??? I go shooting to have fun sometimes and not to train for TEOTWAWKI
I'll get banned for that O No you di int
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Posted: 8/23/2010 5:53:36 PM EDT
[#39]
My gear has got to be made in the States, I save my coin and buy once, I will never buy Chinese shit....thats just me.
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Posted: 8/24/2010 8:40:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: I don't think that everyone makes every purchase based on whether or not they'll need it for SHTF. I have a Condor vest and mag pouches because I hate having to dig through a bag or stuff mags in my pocket at the range. I do have some top notch stuff but only buy it used for a good price. If those manufacturer's priced their products like they were nylon and thread, not gold, I'd be more inclined to purchase them. Not everyone is living FOR SHTF or makes a living as an operator. What to hear a greater heresy??? I go shooting to have fun sometimes and not to train for TEOTWAWKI I'll get banned for that Dude you better get serious or the zombies are so going to get you.
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Posted: 8/24/2010 6:02:17 PM EDT
[#41]
I've got some of their pouches and I'll pass on buying any more. I bought the same pouches op did and one set had the molle straps break just putting them on and the other the stitching is starting to come apart. That is without seeing any use at all.
If your stuff works for you, great. |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 4:44:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Half of my platoon, including myself use Condor plate carriers to replace our issued POS plate carriers. They hold up just fine to the rigors of daily dismounted patrolling in Afghanistan. I did however buy the multicam version made with actual Crye certified cordura. I used to believe way too much of the gear queer nonsense I read on hear about only TAG and TT, HSGI being the only option. Well as has been said, E-4's don't make all that much and sometimes we compromise. We had one guy buy one, used it a bit at MOB and then over here and it just worked. I checked all his seams and stitching and it was just fine, so after a couple months, I pulled the trigger on one, and than others followed. It's extremely comfortable and mine holds a SAW loadout just fine, something that the issued plate carrier and at times an IOTV just can't do without falling apart. Flame away
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Posted: 8/25/2010 5:41:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Half of my platoon, including myself use Condor plate carriers to replace our issued POS plate carriers. They hold up just fine to the rigors of daily dismounted patrolling in Afghanistan. I did however buy the multicam version made with actual Crye certified cordura. I used to believe way too much of the gear queer nonsense I read on hear about only TAG and TT, HSGI being the only option. Well as has been said, E-4's don't make all that much and sometimes we compromise. We had one guy buy one, used it a bit at MOB and then over here and it just worked. I checked all his seams and stitching and it was just fine, so after a couple months, I pulled the trigger on one, and than others followed. It's extremely comfortable and mine holds a SAW loadout just fine, something that the issued plate carrier and at times an IOTV just can't do without falling apart. Flame away No flaming from me, I totally agree. I was going to drop some coin on the Condor multicam but I opted for the Coyote instead. Post some pics of the rigs in action if you can!! |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 12:14:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
You want to spend practically no money on questionable quality gear that may or may not fail during the time in your existence that the ability to "just buy a new one" will be limited (at best) or non-existent (most likely)...gear that your life will depend on....and you go marginal airsoft quality? IMHO there's different quality of knockoff offshore branded gear as well - but it seems there's often there are problems with consistency in quality within the same manufacturer. As SilentType mentioned, Condor moved a production line to the US in '09 so as to be able to say "Made in the USA". Not sure if they're attempting to comply with the Berry act or just shed the "PRC" stigma in the geardo world, but until they offer a lifetime warranty they're still second rate no matter what country is printed on the origin tag. Case in point: when I first was getting gear together to do the SWAT thing HH6 (who was budgeting for gear and aghast at teh $$$  ) asked why a vest from "US-X" was more (almost triple the cost) than a functionally identical vest from "PR-Y".
I described the differences in quality of materials and detail to construction techniques, as well as the differences in warranties. Bust a stitch from "X" and you can send it back for the lifetime of the vest - not your ownership of it. Bust a stitch from "Y" and they'll probably fall back on their (lack of a) warranty. If by chance they did agree to repair it, not only will you need to speak Mandarin Cantonese (regional dialect of Guangzhou) but after return shipping both ways you'll have made up any savings. Also explained the differences between "drag straps" as understood and constructed by most domestic producers and "hanging straps" that look like drag straps as understood and constructed by most imported marques, and how each are used and differ. She reached the decision that non-life-safety type stuff (accessory pouches) could be imported, but that life safety stuff - vest, armor carrier and mag pouches - would be made from a reputable domestic producer. Period, end of sentence. To quote: "if getting your happy ass out of a kill zone after you get popped means your buddies relying on a single piece of nylon webbing to drag you out, I'll pay an extra hundred dollars to make sure it stays attached". Not sure if it's because she really still lives me, wants to make sure a check still comes in biweekly, or just for the chance to look at me in the hospital recovering from a GSW and tell me "I told you not to go and play doorkicker..."
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Posted: 8/25/2010 1:04:45 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: She reached the decision that non-life-safety type stuff (accessory pouches) could be imported, but that life safety stuff - vest, armor carrier and mag pouches - would be made from a reputable domestic producer. Period, end of sentence. I believe this ends up being the decision many people make. If my life may rely on this peice of equipment, I am buying top tier. If it is simply an addition, I don't have to go balls out. Example: I am going to buy a high quality firearm and use high quality mags and high quality optics if it is going to be used in defense of my life. I don't need the bag I put it in when I travel, or the mag carriers I strap on that bag to cost me the same as the rifle. I will buy cheaper on those and be more then happy. |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 4:09:19 PM EDT
[#46]
I've got the Condor 3-Day Assault Pack (link) which is a copy of the Camelback BFM (link). At the time it was the best I could afford. I haven't put it to any hard use, so it's fine for now. The Camelback isn't made in the US either, if I recall from the tag.
One thing I like about this pack is the two side pockets are perfectly sized for the military plastic canteen. GL |
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Posted: 8/25/2010 4:27:23 PM EDT
[#47]
I have a Eagle and a Assault systems Rifle case that are both over 20 years old.. I blew a zipper two years ago and Assault systems replaced it .
Let me know when your Condor shit hits the 20 yr mark and if there still around in 20 years to fix it.....free of charge...... 
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Posted: 8/26/2010 7:51:26 AM EDT
[#48]
The Lifetime Warranty is nice, but honestly some of the Condor stuff you could buy three or four times over before you approached the price of something from a "Tier 1" manufacturer.
Case in point the Blackhawk STRIKE Cutaway Plate Carrier retails at about $400. I can get a Condor Quick Release Plate Carrier for around $100. Both are made overseas. One costs me 1/4 as much as the other. When you're buying your own gear out of your own pocket that's pretty tempting. Especially when you want to get that new magnifier optic or purchase another 1,000 rounds of ammunition. Frankly there is a reason that normal infantry aren't running the same equipment as SOCOM guys and that's because they've got the best the gov could issue them without going nuts on cost. Look at other nations and they have to make those same economic choices as well for their troops. It's all about being as well rounded as you can be with the budget you've got. I just think it's sad when you've got guys that will either run up debt on gear or have to postpone doing other important things to purchase insanely expensive stuff. |
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Posted: 8/26/2010 8:26:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I just think it's sad when you've got guys that will either run up debt on gear or have to postpone doing other important things to purchase insanely expensive stuff. Agreed, especially when they won't be using it for it's intended purpose / in it's intended environment. |
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Posted: 8/26/2010 9:24:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
I just think it's sad when you've got guys that will either run up debt on gear or have to postpone doing other important things to purchase insanely expensive stuff. Why is it sad? Is this not a conscious decision on their part? |
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