In home defense, easy enough that the lady could just "point and shoot" if need be. In case I'm not home. I think the .45 would be too difficult because of the stress if someone broke in. Not to mention I wouldn't want to lose my carry gun to the P.D. during investigation. I also think mine AR is too big. I like this for multiple reasons mainly the sIze, 8 round, and ability to be modded.

I grew up with weapons of all kinds. However, you guys seem to have a lot more info about shotguns than I knew existed. So, please discuss away.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/015813505802.html

Shotguns aren't "point and shoot" weapons any more than a rifle is at SD ranges.

Your link failed so I have no idea what you are looking at.

Sorry!!!! Fixed the link.

If it's for your wife, get her a shotty with a stock - I doubt she'll like that pistol grip, unless she starred in the Terminator movies.

Well, it is for........me but something she could use against intruders in the house if I'm not there.

I did think about how she would be able to control it with out a stock.

Okay, i thought this would be easier to explain, but here it goes. If someone is standing or coming through the door way of a room there is a much greater chance of an "average" to below average shooter hitting someone standing in front of them with a 12 gauge than a .223. My point is in the moments of panic when accuracy is greatly decreased there is more room for error when using a shotgun because obviously it has a significantly greater amount of spread. (I know this arguement could then turn into the many variations of shot being used.) I know this, I am just saying you don't need a direct hit with a shotgun to stop someone. As with a bullet, a miss is, well a miss.

I know what you are getting at, but at ranges 10m and closer any quality buckshot round will pattern fairly tight.  Not much room for error with 5" or less pattern.  The ones that throw loose patterns are horrible IMHO.  I had one pattern so bad, at 10m I still couldn't get all the pellets on target and none that did, didn't hit anywhere critical.  Sure, any hit will probably discourage 90% of attackers.  I'm just sayin'

As far as the womenz go, my wife shoots my 590.  When fully loaded it's a bit much and the reach of the slide is too long for her.  She did like the Benelli Nova she handled though.


Look at these...

Good info thanks a lot. Any pics of ballistics results from different shell or shot type? I would really like to see the drastic difference in spreads. Honestly, I have a general idea, but who isnt up to learn a bit more?

I already learned something, I figured from a distance of about 15 feet or so you would have a spread of like 8 feet. Guess i learned something new.

A shotgun is a shoulder mounted weapon, lets stick with that.

A pistol grip may look "Tacticool" and make you feel line Arnold, but its harder to aim it. Get a Remington 870 or Mossy equal, you can make it tacticool later if you so desire.

Plus, to the cops/judge/jury/prosecuting attorney, a 870 Express or Mossy equal doesn't look like a man/cop killer weapon. That SP 500 does.

Look low key, but carry a big stick.

I am among the crowd that advocates a STOCK on a shotgun.

Pistol grip shotgun is like a prom date: you have a great time and blow your load, but you didn't really accomplish anything serious.

I advocate some form of full stock.  I have a pistol grip I occasionally break out for kicks and giggles, but when the day's done the stock goes back on the shotgun.

If you're worried about the JBTs taking your stuff when you do the world a favor, What about this on the impact guns site?  It's cheap, it's light, it goes bang, load it up with some reduced recoil 00 buck and you'll be gtg.  If it was me personally, I'd get an 870, but the Maverick 88's not an awful starting point.

nevermind

Fail.

At 3 yards, the shot hasn't spread much, 3" or less. At 5 yards, it's 5" or less. If someone can't hit with a rifle at those distances, it's not likely a shotgun is going to help them much if at all. IMO, most "average to below average" shooters are better served with a carbine of some sort that they can actually shoot well, versus something that they'll never shoot because it's uncomfortable or even painful to shoot.

The "can't miss with a shotgun" thing is bullshit at close range. Don't believe me? Go to the range and shoot at 3, 5, and 7 yards. Note the size of the pattern. If someone isn't going to practice with the gun until it actually does become a natural and instinctive point/shoot interaction, then what they're using doesn't matter at all....they might miss and they might not.

WE have a winner folks!!!!! You hit the nail square on the head machinisttx!!!!!!!

Not really, unless you have a true mansion. At out to about 10-15 feet that spread is just a few inches. Normal in-room home distances, I would say 1-3" spread.

Something to think about as well, Buckshot penetrates people and animals pretty well, but stuff like 2x4's will stop it dead in it's tracks. The only Buck I could get to go through a 2x6 at any distance (i.e. no pellet-stacking) was OOO. OO would go BARELY through, and O and smaller would not.

Tested on a car door, OO would go through at closer ranges (15-20y) and OOO would go through to about 40y. THis is only 1 side of the door. IT was from a mid 80's crown vic. Hitting any part of metal on the other side defeated any of the above projectiles.

So yes, you are liable for lots of "pellets", but OO buck tends to flatten and slow down REAL fast in anything more substantial than sheet-rock (which I have heard it WILL go through a good bit of).

Again, this is just my personal  experience and testing with sizes 1, O, OO, and OOO buck from a Benelli M4 S90.

I could care less about "tacticool" myself, a pistol grip is a lot easier to carry in places or get in and out of my jeep than a longer gun. I like a shotgun with a stock to, but in some situations a pistol grip is more practical. But that's my opinion, people should draw conclusions based on what works for them..

So all of that's assuming someone practices a lot with their rifle it seems and they don't with a shotgun.

This was kind of what I was talking about. I don't need the "cool" factor as some are putting it. I need function over form which is something I practice with just about everything in life. The idea, at least for me is to have a pistol grip and the specific shotgun i mentioned because of it's length and capability. I'm not going to go into the physics but you all know what I mean. It is a lot easier to move something that length than a full stocked shotgun.

I COMPLETELY understand that shotguns are supposed to be stock weapons. In fact up until about two years ago I thought you had to be a jackass to want a pistol grip shotgun. Then I thought about the urban environment and manuevering through my house. It is NOT a "true mansion" but at 4000sq feet it is plenty large. I want something that I don't have to make room for when i go through a doorway. I assure you my motivation to buy a shotgun of any type isn't inspired by any action movies or cool shit I saw on T.V. Give a guy some credit and be a little less condescending.

I don't want you to think I'm being condecending but I just hope your looking
at the big picture here.
Home security is about layers.

Make your home as unapealing as possible from the street, motion lights, keep hedges
trimmed back, beware of dog signs ect.

Back up the sign with a good old fashion 80lb burglar munching machine, it doesnt have
to be one of the notoriously aggresive breeds there more about keen senses and fore warning.

Bump key proof locks, window and sliding door bars, someone should have to make alot of
noise to get in. What good is a gun if your house is so unsecure someone could creep in without
you waking up.

Make the bedroom a saferoom, put up a solid core door with deadbolt, have access to a phone
and make them come to her. If you have children this can be more complicated. Breaking down a
solid core door through a hail of even 22lr gunfire is going to take a pretty dedicated attacker.

As far as a firearm goes, whatever she will train with and enjoy to shoot. You know the
kind of gun that makes her want to go shooting. A pistol grip 12 gauge is no fun to shoot
with birdshot let alone 00 or 000 buck. Unless she is built like an 80s East German swim
team member she will shoot it exactly once and never want to again. Even the .410 models
have a pretty stiff recoil with slugs and a pistol grip stock. A full stock autoloader in a 18.5-
20 inch barrel range and a 7 round mag should be more than adequate to hold off an intruder
trying to gain entry to her saferoom. Glock 9mm or 40 or a good old 357mag loaded with
38spl +p would also be a good choice. maybe take her to a gun store and see if anything
strikes her fancy. She has to want it or the training motivation goes right out the window.
One last thing would be a quality flashlight, something in the 120lum range, weapon mounted
for the longgun or teach her the weakhand under technique for a pistol.

Pistol grips are for breaching and, re-enacting the best of Arnold movies. The spread is too tight to simply point in the general direction fire. Pistol grips will hurt you hand alot. I've shot my pistol grip Mossberg 500 one handed and I could feel the pain for a couple days after.

Just some of my experience. I have shot quite a few rounds (many more than I wanted to after the first) through a pistol gripped shotgun. I am about 6 ft and almost 300 lbs and I can tell you that my size didn't intimidate that thing at all. It was a brutal experience - every time. Gov. Arnold would have had a tough time with it. No way would I have let my wife shoot it. Not that she couldn't hang on, but she would would not hit anything after the first shot.

There has been some excellent advice here already but just my thoughts about intruders and your home. There are two options.

Someone once said that room clearing is for the SWAT team - and they were probably right. Room clearing with a long gun (of any kind) takes some skills to keep from ending in tragedy. So does the same task with a handgun for that matter, but the handgun is easier to manuver than even a pistol gripped shotgun. So if you are thinking room clearing type defense, you probably need a handgun and lots of expert training and even more practice. Will your wife sign on to that? Mine won't.

The other option is a safe room. In that scenario the long gun reigns supreme. It is more accurate and powerful among other things. And as others have said, just because you have a shotgun doesn't mean you're going to hit your target. You'll need to practice with the weapon and drill the safe room procedure so it becomes second nature. This is much easier for my wife. And a properly fitted (to her) stock on the shotgun (I chose a Mossberg 930 SPX without pistol grip) allows her to control the weapon. The manual of arms for AR's, semi-auto shotguns and pistols is pretty close so training is simplified. She can practice with this weapon (and the Glock 23) without developing any bad habits. We chose the Federal Low-Recoil Tactical buckshot loads for the 930. We have a handgun readily available, but it's only purpose is to buy time for retreat to the safe room and the long gun - and the artillery - the cell phone. And yes, there is a ready AR in there as well.

Keep reading and make your decision. Good luck.

If you blow your load with a hot prom date, you've accomplished a lot... you got laid on prom night. Thats a horrible analogy!


But seriously, you're better off with a stock of any kind on a shot gun, especially for ease of use with the ladies. A sore shoulder is better than a broken wrist, or nose, when she accidentally holds it to her face to "aim" it.

I found my love for pistol grip shotguns is a love hate relationship. It beats my hand but I keep coming back for more.

Great info guys. Odds are I will let her choose something based on feel for her. Obviously, if she can handle it I can. (i hope). She is a gun lady as well. She is getting a hammerless S&W .38 that she spent weeks researching and actually testing. We are lucky Silver Eagle Group is up the street from us so we have plenty of opportunity to train simulation scenarios and everything else.

For me, it's the other way around


Seriously though, I fail to see the allure of a PG only shotgun. I like the PG on my full-stock M4, but without the full stock, I think it would suck. Ever try a 3" slug with just a PG!?

Me either, it smarts with a full stock firing from a bench at least.

It's not allure, it's practical for some size wise is all, I don't see how it's any different than people wanting sub compacts for certain types of carry and situations.  Does it kick, heck yes, but it doesn't intimidate me to the point I won't have, tote or use 1.

eta there's absolutely nothing cool or tactical about me or the weapons I have, I shoot iron sites with my ak and ar and my ar10 has a carry handle. I don't have any wearable rigs either, mags go well in cargo pockets. The closest to tactical I'll likely ever be is buying a cheap light mount to put something like a surefire g2 on my shotguns eventually.

The only practical use I see is for door breaching.

Yes, let her choose. Don't just show her pictures of it and say "Hunny that's what your gettin". If she doesn't like how it looks or handles, she will not want to shoot it. Let her pick it up in the store and see what fits her, then hopefully it will fit you. haha

Good, I cant stand the tacticool guys who just want to make their Johnson feel bigger by having the most tactical parts on a shotgun as possible.

An alternative would be a collapsible stock. You can shorten it way down or make it full length that would fit the lady and yourself.

Yeah, like one of the previous posts there is nothing tacticool about anything I own either. My AR has iron sights and a carry handle. I still use the iron sights 98% of the time on my .45 even though it came with a crimson laser.

Now that it has been mentioned I like the idea of a collapsable stock. Seems like the best of both worlds to me. Like I said, we will shop around and ultimately it will be what she likes the best based on feel, kick, and control. Great discussion guys.

To my way of thinking pistol-gripped shotguns are about as useful as tits on a boar.

If you want to shoot from the hip, you can do that very well with a standard buttstock.  If you want to fire your shotgun one-handed, well, then IMO you're a dumbass.

To my way of thinking pistol-gripped shotguns are about as useful as tits on a boar.

If you want to shoot from the hip, you can do that very well with a standard buttstock.  If you want to fire your shotgun one-handed, well, then IMO you're a dumbass.

+1000

Make a thread asking people's opinion on which is the best collapsible stock. Remington sells one with the Knox stock straight from the factory. Both of you can go down to a few gun shops and see how it fits you both.

Firing from the hip is so inaccurate; although for some reason the liberals think that it is accurate. I like shooting my Mossberg 500 one handed, only to show off; it hurts, although there's almost no muzzle flip due to the forward weight. I only do this with birdshot though, I do aim down the sights too while holding it out like a handgun.

if you want it with a pistol grip, i suggest finding one that you can mount a laser on.  this way with the laser, it really is point and shoot when you firing from the hip.  pending it is zeroed, this is a very practical solution to the loss of accuracy without a stock.  get a laser with a pressure pad and put in on the forearm and you're good to go.

I guess it's a good thing people can draw conclusions for themselves based on what they think.

Is shooting any type of gun well not an acquired skill that most people have to learn and practice at? What if someone wasn't able to shoot from the shoulder for some reason in a situation? Personally I think if people are good shots more due to their hi tech sights or reliance on every shooting situation being convenient then they really aren't good shots or ready for the unexpected.
Not suggesting that's the case about everyone or even most people who uses some hi tech sights or options, but reliance on them can potentially be a bad thing. There's something to be said about simplicity in being prepared to.

Agreed. I think in the end it really comes down to who is behind the trigger. In one day with my g.f's dad I shot a Mak90, .38, .40, and some others..... oh yeah a potato gun. I has accurate with every single one. There was a slight right curve with the potato gun but like any "good" shooter i adjusted and called my next shot. BINGO. Hit a deer target from about 35 yards. That shit was too funny. Side note: That was my introduction to Jawga ya'll!!!!