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Posted: 11/3/2005 11:37:19 AM EDT
[#1]
I don't know. I am interested in this myself. I would have said no a year ago but now that I shoot 1100's all the time am am not so sure. I am thinking of that 11-87 Sportsman HD. MIKE.
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Posted: 11/3/2005 11:48:58 AM EDT
[#2]
I have an old 1100, polished wood and steel, I bought it used for a super good price, it's been 100% reliable.
I mostly use it for busting clay birds, and have taken a few deer with it, but it spends alot of time sitting in the safe. I've often thought of trading it in on a dull black 1187. I always feel silly climbing into a deer stand with that glossy wood, and polished blue. It just looks ridiculous to me. .....but then I hear all these horror stories about guys having trouble with there 1187's and think, I better keep mine, it runs ! |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 12:02:13 PM EDT
[#3]
I had a 1187 and it was reliable as long as I used heavy loads. The 1187 does not tend to like light loads. I don't think I would buy an 1187 specifically for self defense use simply because of the weight but if I had an 1187 and I just happened to have a 21-inch turkey barrel and some buchshot handy I would not be afraid to use it to defend myself either...
As a dedicated defense shotgun I would rather have a pump myself... |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 5:13:00 PM EDT
[#4]
In my opinion, an 11-87 is a very reliable weapon as long as the proper loads are used. I carry an 11-87P as a duty shotgun, as well as using it in competitions, and it has worked flawlessly on 00 buckshot and slugs.
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Posted: 11/3/2005 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Also interested in the opinions of the guys using them. Years ago, (8-10 or so...they were fairly new then) I tested several 11-87Ps and found them unreliable enough that I sent ALL of the test guns back to Remington, in spite of the fact that I could have bought one for a song. I have also never seen one complete a shotgun course of 100 rounds or more (half Buck and slugs) without a failure of some sort. Now before all you 11-87 fans go beserk here, I will add that the last one I had any contact with was maybe 6-8 years ago and I have no idea of the age of that shotgun. I have been told that the newer guns run just fine, and would like to believe that, but until I see it for myself, or hear it from reputable sources, I will stay with my Benelli's for autoloaders.
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Posted: 11/3/2005 8:43:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Well, I have had the opposite experience. I used to be a die hard pump only fan (after a horror show of a Benelli), but then I bought an 11-87 for duck hunting. It has worked flawlessly with everything except some "light handicap" loads I bought by accident... So now, I am willing to take a look at it for serious work.
I plan on shooting a few matches with it first, though. It seems like everything breaks on me in a match. :) |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 10:16:46 PM EDT
[#7]
I clicked no.
I do not use an auto for defence. I do not have an 11-87 but I believe any auto loader is unsuitable for defence. Reliability is one of the factors. A decent auto will never be as reliable as a decent manually operated gun. Autos have their place in hunting and competitions where your life is not on the line. |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 10:33:18 PM EDT
[#8]
A poor operator of a pump gun can lock one up tighter than a nats butt! With your thinking our soldiers would still be using bolt rifles. A true competitor would not use any thing that he does not believe will function 100% of the time!!! In many competions a malfuntion is a miss!! M-11-87/s are improved M-1100's They are totally reliable with proper ammunition and maintainance. |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 11:19:09 PM EDT
[#9]
It's true, I have seen a few pumps locked up due to poor operation. Usually happens when someone loads a round in backwards. Happens to autos too. A competitor does want his gear to be reliable, he wants it to be fast also. Therefore some reliability is sacrificed for speed. A miss in a competition does not mean your life is at risk. Auto rifles are a completely different story. They are fed with the same ammunition throughout thier lives. The advantage of a shotgun is it's versitility; its ability to switch between ammunition types. |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 12:11:13 AM EDT
[#10]
Not trying to be dissrespectfull nor starting a pissing match. Just cuirous where is NZL?
New Zealand? |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 7:19:00 AM EDT
[#11]
I had an 11/87 Police that was built in 1994. I used it mostly for three gun stuff. It was fairly reliable with heavy loads but I did not trust it enough for self defense use.
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Posted: 11/4/2005 8:03:15 AM EDT
[#12]
Bought two new 11-87P's last year, both function flawlessly with heavy shell, light loads jam. Overall good guns.
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Posted: 11/4/2005 8:27:49 AM EDT
[#13]
After several thousand trouble free rounds through my 1100, I'd probably trust it for social purposes, but would still prefer an 870... IMO, 11-87s are not typically as reliable as an 1100 is - I voted no...
- georgestrings |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 8:30:16 AM EDT
[#14]
get a Benelli |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 11:42:40 AM EDT
[#15]
That is correct! 105mm and 155mm are pretty decent guns. I have worked on 4.5" and 5" guns. Nothing beats the sound of a decent sized gun! |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 3:00:27 PM EDT
[#16]
Are your gun restrictions tough or can you guys own the same stuff as here in the states?(Except Calif.) |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 5:36:46 PM EDT
[#17]
There are restrictions on semi-automatics and handguns. You need special licences to own these.
For semi-automatics the restrictions are on- mag capacity- Limited to 7rds centrefire and 15 rds rimfire bayonet lugs folding/telescopic stocks Free standing pistol grips You can only use handguns for target shooting and you need to attend club shoots 12 times a year to keep the licence valid There are only barrel length restrictions for import. 18"-20" for shotguns (depending on who you talk to!) and 16" for rifles. Once the gun is in the country there is no length limit as long as the OAL is greater than 30". So yeah the gun restrictions are pretty tough. Not as bad as Australia though!!! |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 5:54:36 PM EDT
[#18]
no not as bad a Austrailia!!
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Posted: 11/4/2005 6:55:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Massad Ayoob states that the semi auto shotgun is just as reliable as a pump....if it properly maintained.
He says the reason why officers favor the pump vs the semi auto is because they are basically lazy. They leave the 12 ga pump sit in the patrol car, rarely clean it and rarely shoot it. If one cleans and maintains their weapon (handgun,rifle, shotgun) there should be no major probkems. I have to agree with him. Many police departments use 870s (of course) but a number of cops are armed with Benelli, Beretta, and Remington auto loaders. 1187 should be just fine for police work/ home protection. A Benelli would be even better
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Posted: 11/16/2005 11:18:55 PM EDT
[#20]
My 11-87 has been 100% reliable with high velocity loads. I terms of manually operated vs autos, I wonder why most tactical teams have gone to autos and left the manually operated shotguns to patrolmans.
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Posted: 11/18/2005 4:44:12 AM EDT
[#21]
My humble opinion: yes. Individual 1187's may have minor issues fresh out of the box or due to improper maintenance. Given quality ammo, the design is reliable after break-in and with reasonable care. An experienced and / or very well trained pump operator with an 870 may well be better, but I'm a better fit and more reliable with an auto.
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Posted: 12/2/2005 8:34:45 AM EDT
[#22]
BTT
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Posted: 12/2/2005 1:20:50 PM EDT
[#23]
I've had a 11-87 sense.......1987. It has never failed to operate using light or field loads. I don't know what the F*ck you guys are talking about with guns that don't function with light loads.
 I've always thought that the 11-87 was about as reliable as anything out there. I still can't believe that some of you guys have had problems? Have you checked the O-rings? 
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Posted: 12/3/2005 6:54:47 AM EDT
[#24]
I just switched the barrel on ine to a 20" with sights. It now jams with everything less than a full load. How can I fix this? |
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Posted: 12/11/2005 6:03:08 PM EDT
[#25]
why not, seems to work fine for me
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Posted: 12/17/2005 3:40:30 AM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 12/17/2005 4:57:59 AM EDT
[#27]
I have seen shooters short shuck pumps....if that can happen on a clays field it certainly can happen when you are scared for you life. A manually operated gun is only as reliable as the operator. |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 11:16:29 AM EDT
[#28]
What do you mean by "serious work"? If you mean self defense, then that poses another question- is your motive to obtain the most reliable semiauto shotgun, or are you looking to try another gun and this is a solid excuse? If you are wanting a solid, reliable shotgun, you already own it! The Remington 1100. Buy a 21" rifle sighted barrel with screw in chokes. The part # is 29565. Contact Mark Komoroski @ D&R Sports Center 620 Fairchild St PO Box 139 Nanticoke, PA 18634 570-735-1752 [email protected] www.dnrsports.com He has just about any factory barrel you could possibly need or want for most Remington models. Here's another interesting article Build Your Own Competition Master Now, if you are just wanting to buy another gun, go ahead and try the 11-87 as long as it doesn't break the bank. Break it in, keep it clean and maintained. Also, do some testing. If you get a shorter barrelled version, don't be disappointed when it fails to cycle lighter loads 100% of the time. The shorter barrels are designed for heavier buckshot loads and slugs. The "regulating" or gas port configuration is different. 2guntom  2guntom.com 454 Casull + AntiAmerican Destruction |
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Posted: 12/17/2005 5:52:40 PM EDT
[#29]
11-87, 1100, 870, it don't matter. They will all git r done.
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Posted: 12/17/2005 9:46:47 PM EDT
[#30]
I'VE GOT AN 11-87 POLICE SETUP WITH GHOSTRINGS AND A SUREFIRE FOREND THAT IS MY HOUSE GUN. I'VE TESTED THE GUN EXTENSIVELY WITH ALL SORTS OF AMMO AND OTHER THAN BIRD SHOT OR ANY OF THE (TACTICAL) LIGHT LOADED 00 BUCK IT WORKS 100%. I'VE FOUND FULL LOAD WINCHESTER 00 BUCK TO BE GREAT IN THE GUN BUT THE KEY IS KEEPING IT CLEAN/LUBED AND TEST THE AMMO BEFORE YOU TRUST IT.
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Posted: 12/20/2005 7:32:35 PM EDT
[#31]
x2 I voted no. |
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Posted: 12/26/2005 5:07:35 PM EDT
[#32]
I agree with this guy. So in other words TRAIN WITH IT. Also don't use any pussy loads in the gun. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 1:30:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Ummm.... no. After having RO'ed long shotgun stages at a couple of large 3-gun matches, all I have to say about the Remington vs. Benelli debate is this: If you a) don't maintain it, b) don't test the ammo you are going to use, and c) don't train with the shotgun you will be using, you will have problems. I would say that on average at large matches I am seeing Remington and Benelli shotgun users having *equal* number of problems because of the reasons listed above. I have also seen more people crash and burn running a pump shotgun than an auto, but that is likely due to reason "c" above. As soon as a competitor says to me, "This is the [pump] shotgun I keep at my bedside for home defense" I know they will choke. Scary to think that these people plan on using it for self defense, but they can't operate the damn thing in a relatively low-pressure environment like a 3-gun match. How will they behave when Mr Badguy is smashing down the front door? Honestly, when you're half asleep and trying to figure out what is going on, you will be better off with an auto loader because I can just about guarantee your coordination will be off and you will likely short stroke the pump and lock it up. I use an 1100 and my wife uses an 11-87 for 3-gunning, and they run great. We have to clean them every 500 or so shells fired through them, but that's no big deal. They also don't care that we often mix and match loads (low-recoil slugs and birdshot) -- they just keep on running. |
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Posted: 12/28/2005 9:41:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Could you expound on that? On the 1100, are you shooting all of these loads with the same barrel? If so, what barrel is it? I have an 1100 with a 21", rifle sighted barrel w/screw in chokes. I was quite disappointed when the gun refused to cycle Remington game loads. It does, however cycle various brands and styles of full powered buckshot and slugs; and it cycled Winchester Super X Super Pheasant loads, but those are pretty hot at 1300fps with a 1 3/8oz shot payload. 2guntom 454 Casull + AntiAmerican Destruction |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 7:30:32 AM EDT
[#35]
We both have 26" Remchoke barrels, running modified chokes. For birdshot we usually run 1-1/8 ounce of #7-1/2, 3 dram equaivalent. Preferred brands are Remington Sport Loads (aluminum base) or Winchester AA. For slugs we either use Remington Low-recoil or Winchester Ranger.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 9:33:52 AM EDT
[#36]
A 26" barrel, okay. That explains it. Thank you. My 1100 came with a 28" and I replaced it with the 21". I was really hoping it would cycle the game loads. I guess I just need to sample and experiment with different ammo to see what works so I can use it for squirrel and rabbit. Yet another excuse to buy more ammo and shoot (like I need one!).
Thanks for the reply. 2guntom 454 Casull + AntiAmerican Destruction |
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Posted: 12/29/2005 3:41:53 PM EDT
[#37]
What sort of loads have you tried? You may have to go with something pretty hot to get pressure up to cycle the action (something > 3 dram eq, with > 1 ounce shot). Certainly nothing that is one of the "promotional" loads. That, or have a 'smith open up the gas ports. A couple guys I know that have the JP comp on their 1100's have had to do this because the comp bleeds off so much gas just in front of the gas ports.
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:09:59 PM EDT
[#38]
That sounds like I want a 30/06 and to be reliable it must be an 03A3,cause an auto(M1)would be just too iffy!!!!
I have several mod 11's,and a A5 ,and an 11-48 that would right on par with my 1100!! Granted they are recoil and need to be cleaned(like any auto) but are 100% reliable!!! Plus they are hand made and hand finnished from really fine metal!!! I know as we get older(they just don't make them like they used to comes to mind) but hey they don't make them like they used too(and prices reflect that also)!! I would trust my life to a good Browning A5 or Rem 11 any day!!!! And my Browning Light 12 weighs less than my 1100!!! Bob 
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Posted: 12/29/2005 8:41:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Only time I ever jamed one was by not counting the rounds and trying to stuff one too many in the magazine. It has always been good for me.
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Posted: 12/30/2005 12:29:37 AM EDT
[#40]
11/87's are like children of the same parents. All will have individual characteristics, some will cycle light loads, some won't. My 21" Special Purpose will run the lighter loads SOME of the time. If its heavily lubed with a synthetic such as Tetra, the malfunctions come less often than if dry or using Breakfree. Mine has been 100% reliable in over fours years of practical shotgun shooting where it averages 50 rounds of buckshot per match, one match per month. No parts have broken or worn out, I do replace the gas o-ring seal once each three or four matches, just in case. Actually, my 11/87 has been mechanically superior to several broken Winchester 1200's and Mossberg 500's. Those are two models of shotguns that you'd need to be concerned with, not a 11/87. I have also seen several 870's locked up due to operator error, adrenaline gets to the shooter and next thing is a short stroked shotgun trying to eat and take a dump at the same time through the same hole-an impossible situation!
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Posted: 12/30/2005 8:26:47 AM EDT
[#41]
This isn't my thread, and the originator was looking for 11-87 info. I don't want to be a thread hog so I moved it over here Feeding the Remington 1100. We can pick it up over there. I do greatly appreciate your replies. 2guntom 2guntom.com 454 Casull + AntiAmerican Destruction |
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Posted: 12/30/2005 8:52:03 AM EDT
[#42]
A lot of the confusion over light vs heavy loads comes down to the barrel length and the gas ports. Just like any gas op long gun (inc the AR15) the less barrel there is beyond the gas port, the more ammo-sensitive the 11-87 can be. IIRC the short 18-21" barrels have fixed gas port sizes that are regulated for reliable function with hot loads (buckshot or slugs); they can therefore short-stroke with lighter birdshot loads. This is understandable, and not a problem for HD applications where you will (presumably) be shooting hot loads. On the other hand, the longer 26-30" barrels are designed for clay shooting and hunting with birdshot loads. These loads can be more varied, from light clay loads up to 3" magnum wing shooting loads. For this reason, the longer barrels have a self adjusting gas system - a larger gas port coupled with a valve that bleeds off the excess gas. These barrels tend to work with a wider range of loads, incuding the light birdshot loads. Heavier loads work OK, but they do tend to batter the gun more, increasing the risk of parts breakage if a steady diet of hot buck/slug is fed to the gun (ask me how I know). I use an 11-87 for 3-gun competition. As most of the shooting is done with hot-ish birdshot, but with some reduced recoil slugs thrown in, I found the best barrel to be a 26" skeet barrel (self adjusting gas system) sawn off at 22"  . For me, this works very well, and has proved to be quite reliable.As a data point, my HD weapon is a pistol because I want a compact weapon with a one-handed shooting option, but I would not be afraid to use my 11-87 either. Now for some gratuitous gun porn: 
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Posted: 12/31/2005 11:59:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Aaah, that is an exellent description. Thank you very much. That explains everything that I had questions about, answers it all for me. Thanks again. 2guntom 454 Casull + AntiAmerican Destruction |
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Posted: 2/12/2006 1:12:41 PM EDT
[#44]
mark for later
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Posted: 2/12/2006 1:16:02 PM EDT
[#45]
If it wasme I'd go with the SP-10 but try it
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Posted: 2/12/2006 3:50:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Before I vote tell me what defence is? I know defense is protecton. But have never heard of defence, is that shootig down wood fences?? I dont know about that but we tested them for law eforcement with very favorable results, |
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Posted: 2/12/2006 7:20:51 PM EDT
[#47]
I think the 1100/1187 family is up to the task but i think that by going that route you give up versatility being able to use some lighter loads and less lethal rounds.
And the autoloader has more parts to fail but lends itself better for one handed use so dependeing on your needs you have to factor in these considerations. |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 5:55:14 AM EDT
[#48]
I have an 11-87 Premier 28" that I purchased back in the late 80's. I have fired thousands of rounds through it, mostly #8 but quite a few bucks (both 2 3/4" and 3") and rifled slugs as well. I also have a Hastings 24" fully rifled slug barrel for it that I have fired lots of sabot slugs through. I have shot it clean and dirty. This gun has never jammed in over 15 years of ownership. It is my preferred arm for sporting shotgun use.
But I also understand that the shorter barrels are regulated for heavy loads only, so my experience with my hunting gun cannot serve as a standard for the 11-87P. I would not mind if the gun was only reliable with heavy loads since I would only shoot heavy loads for serious work, except for the fact that I practice alot with light (read inexpensive) loads. That is why I chose the 870P for "serious work." But I sure as heck would not feel like I didn't have adequate backup if my partner chose to use an 1187P. |
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