So how tight is a barrel bushing supposed to be?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So how tight is a barrel bushing supposed to be?

Posted: 2/17/2010 7:43:51 AM EDT

I just realized that on the 2 5" Springfields I have on hand, at the moment at least, both have barrel bushings that can fall out they're so loose. No bushing wrench required. All I have to do is tilt the slide one way or another and jiggle and they'll fall out if the barrel and spring/plug are not present.

I also noticed that while reassembling them that the GI plug actually pushes the barrel bushings on both of them out a decent amount (I don't have my feeler gauges on me, but it's easily seen from the side). One of them pushes straight out, while the other levers the bottom of the bushing forward.

Granted, this isn't a huge amount, but if I had to guess, it might be .020"-.030" for both of them. Not sure about the slop between the bushings and the barrels, but they've got some wiggle room in there too. I'll see if I can get to Sears tonight and pick up some new feeler guages. I wish I had my digital caliper too.

Could this be why my groups with either of them aren't satisfactory or is this amount of slop normal? My newly purchased Champion LW GI can shoot much better groups (bull barrel) with a heavier/creapier trigger and less weight to calm down my non-stable hands and I'm shooting the same WWB out of them.

I guess I'm just wondering if your bushings have any wobble to them when there's no barrel/spring/GI plug installed.

Thanks

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Posted: 2/17/2010 8:01:30 AM EDT

[#1]

mic the barel od and slide id. order a EGW custom bushing. Yor groups will be better.

Posted: 2/17/2010 8:54:43 AM EDT

[#2]

what?

Posted: 2/17/2010 9:42:54 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
what?

He means use a micrometer to measure the inside diameter of the slide and outside diameter of the barrel. That way they can custom build a bushing without having to send the gun in.

Posted: 2/17/2010 9:48:48 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
mic the barel od and slide id. order a EGW custom bushing. Yor groups will be better.

That's actually a great idea.

Posted: 2/17/2010 10:15:04 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
mic the barel od and slide id. order a EGW custom bushing. Yor groups will be better.

You would not just get an oversized bushing and fit it???? If you know how the fitted option would be my choice.

Posted: 2/17/2010 1:30:03 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

mic the barel od and slide id. order a EGW custom bushing. Yor groups will be better.

This is the easiest fix. Nothings tightens up a 1911's group like a well fitted bushing and a proper barrel crown.

Posted: 2/17/2010 4:21:03 PM EDT

[#7]

Just got back from Sears with a new set of feeler gauges.

The bottom of the bushing (that holds in the spring plug) fits flush when I push it towards the back of the pistol and I can fit a .015" feeler under it when I pull it forward from the front of the slide on one pistol. It will fit .013" on the other one.

Both exibit signs of a couple thousanths slop for the actual barrel as well. Looks like a couple new bushings are in order.

Posted: 2/17/2010 4:52:53 PM EDT

[#8]

How's your lower lug fit on those barrels? Can you push the barrel down at the hood while it's in battery?

A tight bushing may or may not be much help if your lower lugs have a sloppy fit, but at least they're a step in the right direction.

Posted: 2/17/2010 4:57:20 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

How's your lower lug fit on those barrels? Can you push the barrel down at the hood while it's in battery?

A tight bushing may or may not be much help if your lower lugs have a sloppy fit, but at least they're a step in the right direction.

They move, but barely. Just enough to see.

If I had to guess, maybe .003 or so. I really wish I had my damn digital caliper with me. It'd make some of these measurements easier.

Posted: 2/17/2010 5:01:08 PM EDT

[#10]

Dial caliper's are like $20 at harbor Freight. Good enough for gun repair.

Briley also makes a spherical bearing bushing. If you shop EGW, get the angle bored one. Saves time.

Posted: 2/17/2010 5:29:30 PM EDT

[#11]

I have a digital one at my parent's, but that's 250mi away at the moment.

I'll remember the EGW, they make good stuff and I've been wanting to order some other stuff from them.

Posted: 2/17/2010 7:23:52 PM EDT

[#12]

So if one were to order a bushing from EGW, sized for Barrel O.D. and Slide I.D., and if one were not 100% clear on the "straight bored" vs. "angle bored" option that's available on EGW's website....
What would be the difference, if any?

Posted: 2/18/2010 2:54:18 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
So if one were to order a bushing from EGW, sized for Barrel O.D. and Slide I.D., and if one were not 100% clear on the "straight bored" vs. "angle bored" option that's available on EGW's website....
What would be the difference, if any?

Local GS advised me to go with the angled bore to minimize barrel bind when the 1911 unlocks and the barrel drops.

Posted: 2/18/2010 7:43:39 AM EDT

[#14]

Am I right to think that .013 & .015 range of movement of the bushing between the frame and slide is uncalled for though?

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Posted: 2/18/2010 7:53:56 AM EDT

[#15]

i don't think it is excessive. but something i would fix.
.696-.005 od on a nm bushing

the slide looks to be .699+.003 ID

Posted: 2/18/2010 7:57:56 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
mic the barel od and slide id. order a EGW custom bushing. Yor groups will be better.

You would not just get an oversized bushing and fit it???? If you know how the fitted option would be my choice.

And you can order one made to measure if you do not want to fit it.

Posted: 2/18/2010 8:39:15 AM EDT

[#17]

(delete)

Posted: 2/18/2010 8:40:19 AM EDT

[#18]

I've had both experiences when it comes to barrel bushings. Not as loose as the one you are describing, I don't remember ever having front-to-back bushing movement.

But I've had them where they come out really easy with fingers, and then I've had fitted ones that took a bushing wrench and a little elbow grease to get out.

I'm a good pistol shooter, but not good enough to really tell the difference in what it did for my groups.

So I don't freak out anymore if the bushing isn't super fitted.

YMMV.

Posted: 2/18/2010 9:07:38 AM EDT

[#19]

I don't consider myself a very good shot either, but there were marked differences between my new Champion w/ILS mainspring, no trigger job, aluminum frame, on a cold windy day compared to my 5" on a nice summer afternoon with no breeze, 4lb trigger, all steel, with a rest.

At 10yds offhand with the Champion, the groups were easily 1-2" tighter compared to my half-assed bench rested groups with the 5".

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Posted: 2/18/2010 10:09:28 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I don't consider myself a very good shot either, but there were marked differences between my new Champion w/ILS mainspring, no trigger job, aluminum frame, on a cold windy day compared to my 5" on a nice summer afternoon with no breeze, 4lb trigger, all steel, with a rest.

At 10yds offhand with the Champion, the groups were easily 1-2" tighter compared to my half-assed bench rested groups with the 5".

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I'm certainly what I would consider a good shot, but shooting standing up my DW Valor with a very tight front bushing is in a different class than everything else.

Posted: 2/18/2010 6:41:54 PM EDT

[#21]

My Talon has a bushing that I can take out by hand, but put all three bullets in the same hole on the test target. I haven't shot it for myself yet, but it appears to be accurate without a super tight fitting bushing.

Posted: 2/19/2010 2:35:27 AM EDT

[#22]

I have a custom Springfield TRP Operator with a Jarvis barrel and fitted bushing. The barrel is probably a little tighter than it should be (IE it doesn't cycle great when it's filthy and cold), but I was just recently out shooting some freshly painted steel and dropped 3 rounds in a group about 1.25" wide and ~.7" tall at 15 yards offhand.

I would consider any play of more than probably .002" at the bushing to be excessive. Handguns are by nature hard to shoot- any accuracy lost in the handgun will only be magnified when you shoot it offhand. Feedback will go to hell and the results will be inefficient.

Accurate pistols are fun to shoot.

Bushings don't have to be hard to turn to be accurate- if properly machined, tolerance could be below .001" and the bushing could turn by hand. Half the reason bushings are tight is because in reality nothing machined is completely round or square, and rarely is a part fitted such that there is no interference of any type ( a .005" tip radius on the cutting tool that made the bushing could basically cause a wrench to be needed because the slide lug recess has square corners for instance- rather than properly mated the wrench turns the bushing which sort of metal forms a tiny radii on that slide feature- over about 150 dis-assembly operations it finally becomes easy to turn without the wrench). Two blunt metal objects take a long time to wear in, because neither is hard and sharp enough to take a chip.

My Springfield is Melonite QPQ'd and that adds .0002" per surface (or .0008" between the slide and bushing diameters overall) and the gunsmith didn't take it into account and now it's hell to get the bushing out. It's sort of like a near press fit and it's a complete pain in the ass so I usually don't take the gun apart. I once put the slide in a padded vise and turned the bushing 175 times with polishing compound till my forearms were completely sore, and no dice- it never got easier to turn because both parts are around 67RC surface hardness so it's as hard as a file and very wear resistant.

Posted: 2/23/2010 1:04:38 PM EDT

[#23]

Take your magazine out make sure there is no round in the pistol and cock the slide back,do you feel any movement
between the barrel and bushing? If not then it is pretty tight. If so then you can purchase after measuring the barrel
or bushing on that is smaller then hone it down to a tight fit.

You might be lucky and buy one that fits tight,that is what makes the barrel shoot straight.

Bob

Posted: 3/11/2010 6:26:12 AM EDT

[#24]

Just got to Sears last night. They didn't have a Vernier dial caliper, but I did pick up a micrometer.

The OD of the barrel is right at .577 and the OD of the bushing is .698

Browsing through Brownells catalog and the angle bored EGW bushing is listed at .579 ID. Is .002 gonna be enough clearance for the barrel?

I still have to get my digital caliper to get an ID on the slide and an actual measurement on the ID of the bushing before I order anything, but I thought I'd update.

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Posted: 3/11/2010 7:42:07 AM EDT

[#25]

Wizzo go to the EGW webpage. There you type in the numbers you measure spec a thick or thin bushing and angle or straight bore. EGW then cuts machines the bushing to your specs. Why deal with gap if you do not need to.

I just had this done to my commander. It does improve the groups. I had to put 150 rounds downrange before the gun would always gointo battery after I polished the end of the barrel some to get he to go into battery.

Posted: 3/11/2010 8:20:18 AM EDT

[#26]

Thanks Gregory_K. I've been busy with other stuff and this got put on the backburner for a couple weeks until last night so I haven't been able to research this like I'd wanted.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - So how tight is a barrel bushing supposed to be?

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