I was at the Range today with my SIG 226 and there was a half dozen shooters in the spots to my right.  They were 6 older gents and one was apparently teaching the other 5.  And he was teaching them specifically the 1911.

Unfortunately I didnt get to hear all the conversation, but the guy brought up things like knowing the difference between a carry 1911, and a target 1911, different ammo performances, etc...

Now I have been carrying Glocks, revolvers, SIGs, etc... for many years now, and have learned to shoot well with them.  

I have from time to time talked myself into, and then right back out of a 1911 due to the excessive cost that these things can run into.  

For example, my best friend carrys a Colt 1911 but he had the thing sent to Yost and dropped a WAD of cash on it, and it's his carry gun.  

I have always found myself attracted to 1911s... and today the urge became even more powerful.  

So, being a bit of a Glockie, I have found the various Glocks I own to be VERY reliable... in fact I have never had a problem with one, ever.  But I am not "in love" with the Glock like many are "in love" with the 1911.  I look at a Glock like I do a wrench... a tool to do a job.  But many people seem to look at 1911s with love, admiration, like they were looking at their favorite high power sports car.  

The Glock is a "garbage mouth"... I can feet it wolf ammo all day long and it wont choke... can a 1911 match this?

And I keep hearing horror stories about 1911s having problems with extractors, mags, etc...

I mean, you never hear "my Glock is reliable if I use Wilson Mags" (yes I know Wilson dont make Glock mags, just using that as an example).

So give me a no BS lesson here guys... honestly.  Are 1911s REALLY all that, or is it just an antiquated gun with reliability problems?  

Or moreover, can I be a 1911 guy without dropping a months pay on sending a gun to YOST before it becomes reliable?

I REALLY want to like/love 1911s as much as say... SGB, and I am looking to make a change in my life to one, and only one pistol platform.  Right now I have Glocks, Sigs, XDs, and the list goes on.  I feel like the old phrase "Jack of all trades, but master of none" applies here.  Can I truly be a 1911 guy at heart and just not know it yet?  Is the 1911 platform WORTH the time/effort to master?

(or maybe I know it and I am just in denial)

I am not looking to start a flame war here guys so I am not looking for "Glock sucks, go 1911"... that does not teach me anything.  I want to learn the WHY and the HOW please. I want to make a life long choice, not a choice I will regret in a few months because I got fet hype and not facts.

just like glock has all the kB stories, and the prevailing 1911 jamming stories, its all on the numbers--there are just a lot of 1911s and glocks out there

anyways: yes--a quality 1911 can match a glock and shoot wolf ammo reliably (i have owned 5 different 1911s: 1 SA loaded, 1 SA champion, 1 "mutt" built by someone else, 1 Kimber TLE (IE), and 1 SW 1911PD--i have had 0 problems w/ wolf (or any other ammo) in the SW, Kimber, and SA champion--the rest had a couple of problems w/ slide lock back and FTFs with wolf and/or WWB at some point and time

so, no.  you can get a stock, factory, quality 1911 and it will run fine--no customization/tuning needed

i wont say that ONLY Wilson mags work--they are just the best, most consistant 8rnders out there imo--my 7rnd factory mecgars, novacks, and SA/Kimbers are good too

is the 1911 antiquated? its mechanical design is old and a little more parts involved, but it still works, just like the wheel

try a 1911--see how it FITS you; and yes its worth it

oh, and i like glocks too--simple, cheap(er), hi-cap, durable, one of the most reliable out-of-the-box,   dont care if i wear em out, and lots of stuff for em

I've spent a lot of money on 1911s and I just love them.  However...i've had problems with all of them so far.  Is it enough for me to stop using/loving them?  No.

On another note...my Glocks are trouble free...always have been...and I will always carry one.  I don't know how much more I could spend on a 1911 to make it 100% trouble free.  I have one Wilson Combat, a few Kimbers and a few SA...they have all had a minor glitch or two.  Wilson being the least troublesome.

1911 fan for life...Glock carry for life.

YMMV



ETA - Grammar and Spelling  <--- Tha Nazis are watching!

When I got into 1911's, I was like you. I wanted to be into 1911's like SGB. Steve is a great guy, and has some beautiful 1911's, including one that was formerly mine.

I discovered, however, that Steve and I are not alike. He loves 1911's with a passion, I love nearly ALL handguns, but I view them differently. I dearly enjoy shooting my Springfield 1911, and Steve contributed to my enjoyment by coaching me and helping me shoot better. However, I also enjoy shooting my Sig 220ST. It's a pleasure to shoot. I also enjoy shooting my Glock 17, though I don't think SGB has forgiven me for that yet.

As far as reliability, my SA 9109L Loaded model has choked through Wolf, WWB, Remington, and handloads, all without a single hitch, other than a malf caused by limp-wristing, by a small chick that was shooting my gun. Approaching 2K rounds with no real problems, and that includes Wilson 47D mags, Chips Mcormick, Springfield, and $4 no-name mags from the gun show.

Is the 1911 worth mastering? Absolutely. Mine is my day-in, day-out carry gun. I'm carrying the Glock now, since the Springfield is getting new sights put on it by the factory, but once it comes back, it will go right back in the leather and be my everyday companion, while my other guns sit at home in the safe.

I would like to be a 1911-only kind of guy, but I enjoy shooting ALL different platforms, and drag them out to the range often. Only you can choose what type of gun-guy you want to be, but don't choose because of snobbery or because some internet commando tells you your current platform sucks.

My constant companion:

Picking up this gun and holding it is like shaking the hand of an old friend. It puts bullets wherever it is pointed, and it feels terrific. I can give no better endorsement than that.

1911s are just like any other gun:

You can have a reliable, affordable combat pistol that will shoot center-mass at combat range...

You can have a tight, accurate, affordable range queen that needs to be treated 'just right' but will knock over  soda cans at 30-40yds, for the same price as any other upper-midrange weapon like a SIG or HK

Or you can have an super-accurate, super-reliable weapon that costs 2 months salary....

It's all up to you...

You can get a reliable 1911 for ~$400-600, if you don't mind military-issue grade accuracy, GI sights, etc...

Once you start 'improving' it the cost goes up.... For this reason, alot of folks buy a Norinco, Rock Island, or something else cheap and then re-do it ground up into 'what they want'... But those guys are looking for 'Gun #3'... You are probably looking for #1...

I have 3 1911s.   I have an older Springfield that is my daily carry gun, a Colt commander stainless, and a newer SA GI model.    All 3 are 100% dead nuts reliable and will shoot any ammo you put in them.   I dont really know about other mags much as I run Wilson #47Ds exclusively.  I've had good luck with them and they last forever.  

My GI is bone stock, it's up around 2500 or so rounds so far including about 1K of Wolf.   It has only malfunctioned once, it was with a 200gr LSWC loaded uber light and it wouldnt open the slide so I guess that one doesnt count.     I've tried to limp wrist it, held it as lightly as possible and it refuses to malfunction.  

My stainless commander had issues for the first couple hundred rounds but after a short break in it's been running 100%.   I hear of more issues with stainless guns and break in for some reason

My older SA that I carry every day is modified the way I like it.   It's been a shooter from the first day I got it and it only gets better over time.   My other handguns usually stay in the safe when I go out to shoot.   I've always got a 1911 on my hip.  

I've had my Sig P220 for a couple years now and it hasnt seen 1/10th of the shooting my much newer GI has.    The P220 is just no fun to shoot.   My wife's XD40 also stays at home as do my revolvers.    I drank heavily from the koolaid pitcher and now it's 1911 or nuthin.  

My first 1911 was a cheap Llama MiniMax 250$...  Sold it, picked up a Para Ordinance P14... 550$ used. Some might say it isn't a "true" 1911 since it is double stacked mags, etc.  Next to a Llama, Springfield, Kimber, it all looks the same.  With a match grade barrel and 14rds in a magazine... right out of the box it is a fine shooter.

My Llama took any magazine I gave it; Wilson, CMC, No-name, Metalform, etc.  It just didn't hit where I wanted it to, each and every time.  Granted, I have only put 600rds through the Para so far, but I am already hitting 100x better.  My groups are tighter and closer to the center, the rest is all practice practice practice.

There are sooo many 1911 makers you really have to do your research.  Some companies don't make them to the same specs as others.  My Llama only had ~60% parts compatability with other mid-sized 1911s.  I couldn't even get the grips I wanted for it because it was different.

I think it was Kimber or Wilson that had extractor problems.  They promptly went back to the old extractor style.  The Kimber I shot was a nice gun, but I couldn't see myself paying $1200+ for it.  

If you want to get into 1911s for cheap, find a Springer GI (~400$) for a reasonable price and work up from there.  Novak sights, houge grips, wolff springs, drop in trigger, whatever floats your boat.

Now if only I can get my USP to group like my Para...  h.gif  From a rest they are both great.  I'm just not used to the trigger on the USP yet.

Buy a Colt and don't look back.

Anything else, apart from a Baer/Brown/Wilson etc., and you are risking problems with it.

I own a glock and it is a reliable gun.  However, the first time I picked up a 1911, I could tell it was a pistol I had to own.  Pick one up, hold it, and shoot it, side by side with a glock and I think you'll understand why so may people still love their 1911's.  Sorry, this isn't a scientific answer, but it is a real kinesthetic thing.

Quoted: Buy a Colt and don't look back. Anything else, apart from a Baer/Brown/Wilson etc., and you are risking problems with it.

Really? Please explain

ok, rabid 1911 shooter, owner, builder,
I own currently 1 colt custom, and 3 out of the box kimbers..the Kimbers have all the stuff done I paid a couple of grand for in customizing my colt..orginally it was a pin gun now just a gold cup.

I have NEVER had a Colt that would not function out of literally dozens I have owned ..

if you want to get into early springfields, Thompsons, and a few mutts that roze their heads 20 years ago there were some big issues and complaints,
but again I never had failure from an out of the box Colt..

mag problems, dozens., so quality mags, that you shoot alot to insure their fit and function, stake your life on,,use them
my start up mags are all old 7 rd mags from different makers.. all work, flawlessly every time and have for a while, one day they will wear out and my back up wilsons will replace them..

kimbers, have 3, work 99.9 % of the time to date
One doesnt like off brand  ammo,, it is very tight in its overall tolarance, will loosen up one day, probably not in my life time...so I just feed it decent ammo..
others work flawlessly to date..

Glock, I had a mod 19, had several fail to feed issues, this is when they first hit the market,,sent it back to glock, they fixed it..period..

i just bought my 2nd mod 26..light weight, hopefully will work when I pull the trigger will find out soon,,
and if as reliable as my last one. It will become my carry gun,,why? Becasue my 1911 arent reliable, nope, just tired of getting them scratched to crap because unfortuantly today my carry is in a breifcase that seems to get tossed around on occasions..

but if is put a crapy after market mag in there and it doesnt work right,,is it the glock?
same questions relates to most 1911 issues..cheap mags are the issue most of the time..

finally,, if you want to compare beauty in craftsmanship, Art in Metal, a form the fits the hand of probably 90% of the people on the planet on first contact..well 1911's and glock hold no comparison.

My Nephew is a NY Trooper. raised and trained on glocks, sigs, other plastic pistols..told me last week, he tried his first 1911, all he said was,,now I understand all you have told me,,I just picked it up and,,,,it felt "right"

Quoted: Quoted: Buy a Colt and don't look back. Anything else, apart from a Baer/Brown/Wilson etc., and you are risking problems with it. Really? Please explain

Colts made in the past few years are by most accounts quite reliable out of the box.  They use the least amount of MIM in their guns compared to anyone, with the possible exception of the new S&W 1911s.  

Springfields have problematic extractors, among other things.  Kimbers can be OK if you get a good one.  Their decision to 86 the external extractor may help their track record a bit, but they still build nearly the whole gun out of MIM.

Colt would still be my first choice today, with S&W and Dan Wesson running second and third.

Good advice above, and I'll throw in my two cents:

Stay away from the compact 1911s.  Government and commander models tend to be more reliable in my experience.  You start monkeying around with barrel lengths under 4" and things get wacky, like timing and lockup issues from what I understand.

Plus, I wonder how much of the bad rap 1911s get is due to kitchen table gunsmithing.  The beauty of the 1911 is the available customization options.  The downside is everybody thinks they can work on one.  

Unfortunately, some 1911s (predominantly factory models) require tweaking, probably as a result of varying manufacturers (everybody and their brother), varying parts tolerances (good and crappy), and/or available labor pool (gunsmith fitting vs. assemblers).  In my opinion, this fact is more than offset by the feeling of being able to pick up a 1911, have it feel great in my hand, and then shoot a ragged hole in something.  If yours does need tweaking, you can (or the manufacturer) can work thru the problems.  Don't be afraid, jump in with 2 feet.

Having said all this, what would I recommend?  I say for factory guns ($500-$900) Springfield Armory, Dan Wesson, Colt or Smith and Wesson.  I own two Kimbers (Series 1), but would not buy a Series II Kimber with Schwartz safety and/or external extractor.  A step up would be a STI Trojan for $1,000.  Semi-customs ($1,400+) would include Les Baer, Wilson, Rock River.  I just picked up a Les Baer Concept IV and am continually amazed by the fit , aesthetics and function.  Unfortunately, I haven't messed with any Ed Browns and/or Nighthawks, but I would not hesitate ordering one if the money was available.

1911s, Glocks, Sigs and H & Ks are all great handguns.

I bought my first 1911 about 5 years ago (s Springfield V-12) and couldn't stand it because the trigger broke at about 6 lbs and the full length guide rod made it extremely difficult to reassemble.

I traded (more like gave) it for another handgun and now have found myself looking for a Springfield V-12 for the last year or so.

I carry Glocks because I have no reticence about knocking them around in my briefcase, car, dresser drawer, etc.

I cannot shoot Glocks nearly as well as a 1911, which to me simply means that I need to practice shooting Glcoks a lot more.

I share the view that a Glock is a tool, and a very functional one for that matter.

A 1911 is also a tool, but in the same way that a nice sports car or a Harley is a tool.

I have quite a few 1911s and always seem to be increasing the size and quality of my collection.

On the other hand, I recently consigned 2 of my five Glocks, and I felt pretty good about it because I will use the proceeds to buy another 1911.  

I dropped off a couple of 1911s for consignment at the same time and went home and felt awful about it.  I went back the next day and rescued them.

To me, whether to take a Glock or a 1911 to the range is a no-brainer, but I won't say anything bad about Glocks because I know that they are great weapons. I just need to learn to shoot mine better.

I carry a Glock 22 on duty because it's what I'm issued. I am very confident in the weapon and my ability with it. It has never failed me in the ten years that I've carried it. Take a Glock out of the box and you can be 99.9 % assured that it will work first time/everytime. It is a fine weapon.

However my Springfield 1911 is mine. I have customized it to suit me. Ergo XT Grips, Wilson Mag Well, Polished trigger components, Smoothed Ambi Safety, Polished Feed Ramp,DuraCoat Matte Black Finish. I have ensured that it functions 100 %. It fits my hand and settles in without any adjustment of my grip. It points exactly where I want it to everytime. It is part of me. It settles in an IWB holster and I forget it's there, yet I know it's ready if needed. The work that I've done makes it perfect for me. Perhaps not for someone else, but thats one of the great things about the 1911. You can make it exactly what it needs to be for you.

My Glock is kind of like a Ford F 150.

My 1911 is kind of like a 05 Mustang.

I'll also chime in with the fact that as the 1911 has been so popular over the years there have been many a companies who turned out a poor quality product to try to make a few bucks.  That I think has a good bit to do with the bad rap that some people give 1911s...  I had my experience with a bad one, but I blame myself for cheaping out and buying crap and not the design.

Also, while many may not wish to admit, I also sense that some problems were "operator induced."  Whether this be limp wristing or improper maintenance I think it has to be figured in at some point, and especially when you're dealing with a firearm design that has been around for 95 years with literally millions in circulation...  

Again, just my two cents...

If Hi-Point built Glocks, would they be as reliable as one built by Glock?

That is the 1911 pistol today.

Anyone and everyone can and does build them. Some get it right, some muddle along, and some could not build one RIGHT to save their life.

I buy Colts and USGI anymore. Most top end 1911 makers are also very good.
Any 300-500 dollar 1911 has had corners cut on them. You cannot build them properly for that price point.

Quoted: If Hi-Point built Glocks, would they be as reliable as one built by Glock? That is the 1911 pistol today. Anyone and everyone can and does build them. Some get it right, some muddle along, and some could not build one RIGHT to save their life. I buy Colts and USGI anymore. Most top end 1911 makers are also very good. Any 300-500 dollar 1911 has had corners cut on them. You cannot build them properly for that price point.

My Norinco disagrees.

Quoted: Quoted: If Hi-Point built Glocks, would they be as reliable as one built by Glock? That is the 1911 pistol today. Anyone and everyone can and does build them. Some get it right, some muddle along, and some could not build one RIGHT to save their life. I buy Colts and USGI anymore. Most top end 1911 makers are also very good. Any 300-500 dollar 1911 has had corners cut on them. You cannot build them properly for that price point. My Norinco disagrees.

Apples to oranges. US made guns will cost you money because you pay for the labor.  Likewise a Colt costs more than a SA or other similar 1911 because of the labor component of them.

I don't mean to get on a political tangent here, but if Norinco actually had to pay its employees a legit wage comparable to what US employees were paid I don't think Norinco products would be as cheap as they are.  (this goes for 1911s, M14s and the such)  They'd probably be in the SA to Colt price range.  Consequently you can get a good 1911 at a super price when you are essentially only paying for the materials and not the labor that went into making the steel, machining the steel and assembling the parts...  I sense that what fxntime was referring to are the US made 1911s which can be had for less than the month's rent such as Auto Ordnances, High Standards and the like...  

Quoted: Quoted: If Hi-Point built Glocks, would they be as reliable as one built by Glock? That is the 1911 pistol today. Anyone and everyone can and does build them. Some get it right, some muddle along, and some could not build one RIGHT to save their life. I buy Colts and USGI anymore. Most top end 1911 makers are also very good. Any 300-500 dollar 1911 has had corners cut on them. You cannot build them properly for that price point. My Norinco disagrees.

Norks are built to a high standard [functionabilty] by people making fifty cents an hour. If built in any non comm Country, they would not cost what they do. The steel and machining where it counts is top notch, One of very few that used SPRING steel in the extractor just as JMB specified. Final finish is not up to standards but then again, they work as intended.

I have two 1911s.  One Kimber TLEII and a Wilson CQB.  Neither has given me any issues.  They keep going, and going and going.

Ironically, the only gun to break and fail on my was my G26.  I also have a G19.  The captive recoil ass'y ate itself after a few hundred rounds.

At the end of the day, I carry an HK.

I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run.

I have a USGI 1944 made Colt M1911A1.

I've fired probably 2k rounds through it since this time last year.

Never had ONE failure. Not ONE. The gun is all original; I didn't swap out ANY parts.

I bought a Sig P228 about 4 months ago. I've put about 600 rounds through it.

I've had one failure to eject in it.

Guess which one is my go-to, SHTF, zombies are attacking gun.

Hint: The 228 sits in a holster, ready to grab. The 1911 sits loaded on the bedstand.

It might be 60 years old, but it works damn well.

After owning and shooting several pistols, HK, Sig, Glock, I rented a SA 1911 at the gun range.  I loved it.  Sold the G21 and USPc .45 and ordered a kimber tle/rl II and a surefire x200a.  Best shooting gun I've ever owned.  It absolutely is no comparison to my g21.  It feels so natural in my hands and I shoot better with it and feel more confident with it than any of my other pistols I previously mentioned.  I feed it whatever, in kimber or wilson 47d's and it does just not fine.  It was the perfect balance of price and performance.  I would absolutely be scared ****less to shoot a $2000-$3000 1911, let alone carry it not saying that if I didn't have the money I wouldn't.  Go rent a 1911 at the range and come back and tell us what your first impressions were after handling and shooting it.

Quoted: An Instructor at a recent Instructors school I just completed gave me this pearl of wisdom. "Steve, the 1911 is the American Samuri Sword."

I never thought of it that way but I like that!

I too was a die hard Glock guy who qiestioned 1911's.  I couldn't get over the thought that they were expensive jam o matics.  I've finally realized that this is a bunch of bullshit that idiots on Glocktalk spread who have never owned a 1911.  

I now currently have 4 1911's and they all are super reliable.  I first bought a Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special.  I was all prepared for the "500 round break in" and planned on many problems, Well 1500 rounds later and the damn thing has NEVER malfunctioned.  

I just bought a brand new Mil Spec for $479.  One would expect this gun to malfunction if you listen to all the forum experts.  Well, I cleaned it, lubed it up with Militec and proceeded to shoot 500 rounds of all sorts of mixed ammo through it, and it shot like a champ.  Surely it can't be possible for a basic, low end 1911 to shoot like a champ out of the box?

You know, I think all the "1911 is a 90 year old design that is unreliable blah blah blah" crap came about when internet forums became popular.  Do people really think that the US Military would have used a pistol for so damn long if it was not reliable?  Look at how many rifles the military went through since the year 1911 - and you have to agree that there has been some damn good rifles.  Would would most of the elite special forces and law enforcement agencies chose to use a 1911 if it wasn't reliable?

I still love my Glocks and even carry my Glock 19 a lot.  I just think most of the crap you hear/read about the 1911 is from some forum expert who hangs out too much on the internet.  A year ago, I wouldn't touch a 1911 - hell I wouldn't even look at one.  Now I realize that I will most likely never really carry any other pistol.  

One more thing, don't buy into the argument that "my Glock can shoot 10,000 round without cleaning."  Who gives a damn!  What civilian ever needs to go that long without cleaning their  pistol?  If my 1911 goes 1000 rounds (which they have) without a hicup, thats great with me - 1000 rounds is about the most I will ever go without cleaning.  Hell even in Iraq you never go that many rounds without cleaning - you clean every damn time you can.

Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run.

Never had a 1911 huh?

Quoted: Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run. Never had a 1911 huh?

Obviously not.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run. Never had a 1911 huh? Obviously not.

Nope, and I wouldn't keep one if it was given to me. It is frustrating enough watching others try to get thier 1911s to run. At the IDPA matches I attend, 1911s make up about 20% of the guns used and about 85% of the malfunctions.

I doubted the 1911. I thought it was a heavy outdated POS. I had shot a Para high cap, and I thought it was pretty uncomfortable, not to mention the model I shot was anything but reliable.


Once I shot a traditional 1911, all doubt in my mind was gone. Now I've been thinking about saving up for a Rock River Tactical Pistol. Some people hate the Picatinny railed 1911's, but they're the epitome of a modern classic to me.

Go shoot one before you decide. People who prefer the grip angle of the Glock usually don't like the feel of the 1911. You could be one of the many converts though.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run. Never had a 1911 huh? Obviously not. Nope, and I wouldn't keep one if it was given to me. It is frustrating enough watching others try to get thier 1911s to run. At the IDPA matches I attend, 1911s make up about 20% of the guns used and about 85% of the malfunctions.

I find it humorous when Glock fans think a race gun is comparable to a real 1911. 80% of all race guns I have seen are piles of crap. STI, SVI, custom Para's and all of those don't have very good track records. No offense to those companies, but I have yet to see a high stack that was up to my quality standards.  

Quoted: I doubted the 1911. I thought it was a heavy outdated POS. I had shot a Para high cap, and I thought it was pretty uncomfortable, not to mention the model I shot was anything but reliable. Once I shot a traditional 1911, all doubt in my mind was gone. Now I've been thinking about saving up for a Rock River Tactical Pistol. Some people hate the Picatinny railed 1911's, but they're the epitome of a modern classic to me. Go shoot one before you decide. People who prefer the grip angle of the Glock usually don't like the feel of the 1911. You could be one of the many converts though.

I have shot dozens of 1911s and I don't care for the grip angle or the wide but thin feel of the grip.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run. Never had a 1911 huh? Obviously not. Nope, and I wouldn't keep one if it was given to me. It is frustrating enough watching others try to get thier 1911s to run. At the IDPA matches I attend, 1911s make up about 20% of the guns used and about 85% of the malfunctions. I find it humorous when Glock fans think a race gun is comparable to a real 1911. 80% of all race guns I have seen are piles of crap. STI, SVI, custom Para's and all of those don't have very good track records. No offense to those companies, but I have yet to see a high stack that was up to my quality standards.

I am talking about IDPA carry guns, not race guns. The ones I know specifically are a Kimber Raptor, a Kimber Gold Match, an Ed Brown custom Series 70, and a Gold Cup.

No modifications?

I'm sure everyone's experiences vary, but I have never seen any evidence to call the 1911 an unreliable platform as a whole. I've seen tons of guns that ran perfect only to be sent off for custom work to come back more accurate, but much less reliable.

Quoted: No modifications? I'm sure everyone's experiences vary, but I have never seen any evidence to call the 1911 an unreliable platform as a whole. I've seen tons of guns that ran perfect only to be sent off for custom work to come back more accurate, but much less reliable.

The Ed Brown custom Colt is the only one that I know of that has had more than sights and grips changed. I think a lot of the problem may be how damn tight they make the guns to claim some stupid ass 1.5" at 25 yards accuracy guarantee.

Where is adair_usmc?  We need him to occupy the Glock troll while the 1911 fans discuss the original topic.

Quoted: The Ed Brown custom Colt is the only one that I know of that has had more than sights and grips changed. I think a lot of the problem may be how damn tight they make the guns to claim some stupid ass 1.5" at 25 yards accuracy guarantee.

The tightness of the gun really has nothing to do with its accuracy...or lack of accuracy.  Another misconception is that a tight gun is more likely to malfunction.  I took my Baer (which was tight even for Baer) thru three days of classes and a couple thousand rounds with zero cleanings and zero malfunctions...

Quoted: The tightness of the gun really has nothing to do with its accuracy...or lack of accuracy.  Another misconception is that a tight gun is more likely to malfunction.  I took my Baer (which was tight even for Baer) thru three days of classes and a couple thousand rounds with zero cleanings and zero malfunctions...

[sarcasm]
But, but... everybody knows 1911s are unreliable and tight 1911s barely function at all, and they shit the bed when they get dirty, and Baer makes overtightened crap for morons who believe whatever they read on teh intarweb. That tight gun gonna get you killed, boy!!  
[/sarcasm]

Quoted: Quoted: The Ed Brown custom Colt is the only one that I know of that has had more than sights and grips changed. I think a lot of the problem may be how damn tight they make the guns to claim some stupid ass 1.5" at 25 yards accuracy guarantee. The tightness of the gun really has nothing to do with its accuracy...or lack of accuracy.  Another misconception is that a tight gun is more likely to malfunction.  I took my Baer (which was tight even for Baer) thru three days of classes and a couple thousand rounds with zero cleanings and zero malfunctions...

How could a more tightly fitted gun NOT have less tolerance for fouling and debris?

Personally I think reliability problems with 1911's have more to do with the users than the design.  I used to shoot a lot of bowling pin matches.  Invariably if a gun jammed it was a 1911.  If some guy had been talking about improvements he'd made, it was his that jammed.

If I was to start replacing the internal parts of my Glock, I'm sure that it would not run 100% like it does now.

My 399 on sale MilSpec Spingfield never had a hiccup. I carry it on my hip and bet my life on it. It fits my hands and it always goes BANG. I like having a safety that would slow or stop a bad guy that had gotten it away from me.

.45 gold dots would sure take the fight out of a goblin, I'd bet.

You get what you pay for.  A cheap gun, no matter what model, just can't be expected to perform the majority of the time.  Same with guns that have been "reworked" by Bubba, if you know what I mean.  Stay away from cheap 1911's like Auto-Ordnance and those old Spanish copies.  I've heard good things about cheap models like the Norinco (don't like the markings, though, would probably get it just for the frame) and the RIA.  Personally, I'd go with a Springfield Mil-Spec if I wanted something that I wouldn't have to dump a lot of cash into.  To dive into the whole MIM issue, it's irrelevant if it's done right (however, I do think MIM extractors present a problem because they are very hard/impossible to tune).  Barstock will fall apart too if the work was poorly done.  You can have it done cheap, you can have it done quick, you can have it done right; pick any two.  "Drop-in" usually isn't when you're dealing with the 1911.  Many parts need to be fitted in order to work properly (even if they're supposed to "drop in") and that is best left to competent gunsmiths, IMO.  

For $479 my Mil-Spec was one of the best handgun purchases I have ever made.  I mean how much cheaper can you hope to get with a 1911, yet it runs like a champ and is every bit as accurate as my Glocks.  My beloved Glock 19 has had 2 FTF in 2000 rounds.  I still trust it because you know what, mechanical devices fail, ALL OF THEM.  

I love both Glocks and 1911's, although I find more and more I shoot better with a 1911.  In the 9 months that I have been shooting 1911's I have had a total of 4 malfunctions.  2 with a brand new Series 80 Commander I just picked up and 2 with a Series 1 Kimber that I traded.  Thats pretty damn good considering I have 5 1911's, one was brand new and only at the 50 round makr, and the Kimber was very well used and tired.  

Quoted: [sarcasm] But, but... everybody knows 1911s are unreliable and tight 1911s barely function at all, and they shit the bed when they get dirty, and Baer makes overtightened crap for morons who believe whatever they read on teh intarweb. That tight gun gonna get you killed, boy!!   [/sarcasm]

yep.  That's why they're not even considered for use at Thunder Ranch or GunSite....(more sarcasm)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run. Never had a 1911 huh? Obviously not. hr Nope, and I wouldn't keep one if it was given to me. It is frustrating enough watching others try to get thier 1911s to run. At the IDPA matches I attend, 1911s make up about 20% of the guns used and about 85% of the malfunctions.

A man must know his limitations....

Ok, so if I wanted to get into a quality 1911, but dont have a month's pay to drop, is this possible?  

I see a lot of high end names being mentioned here, and I suspect many of them have the high end price tag to match.  

Give me some ideas as to what to look for in terms of brand and expected price.  

I am looking more for function and reliability than "style" or "bling".  If I fall as deeply in love with 1911s as so many here have the style and bling can come later...

Quoted: Ok, so if I wanted to get into a quality 1911, but dont have a month's pay to drop, is this possible?   I see a lot of high end names being mentioned here, and I suspect many of them have the high end price tag to match.   Give me some ideas as to what to look for in terms of brand and expected price.   I am looking more for function and reliability than "style" or "bling".  If I fall as deeply in love with 1911s as so many here have the style and bling can come later...

Go for springfield armory.  The GI's and milspecs are a good starter and probably the best for the money.  If you can find a norinco I hear they're good too.  

Just avoid auto-ordnance.  Some have good ones, I had a bad one.  Bad gun experiences aren't fun, please don't have one...

These are the ones made to look lik the WWII models?  Or are you referring to something else?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am in love with my GLOCK becuae it didn't need $300 in upgrades and $40 aftermarket mags to run. Never had a 1911 huh? Obviously not. [Nope, and I wouldn't keep one if it was given to me. It is frustrating enough watching others try to get thier 1911s to run. At the IDPA matches I attend, 1911s make up about 20% of the guns used and about 85% of the malfunctions. Then May I ask why you're in the 1911 Discussions Forum? If you want to talk about your Glock I strongly suggest you do it in either the Glock Forum or the Handgun Discussions Forum. Thank You Steve

The fact that I don't own a 1911 doesn't keep me from enjoying thier discussion. I may not think the 1911 is the greatest mechanical device ever designed like some believe, but I don't think they are all bad either. Some of them are very good and I admire the craftsmanship in the nice custom pistols.

I look at the 1911 in the same way I do a '57 Chevy. Both are classic designs that are more user friendly with modern upgrades. Both are aesthetically pleasing and the tastefully done ones are a thing of beauty. When built by the best they can be excellent, but when some people play around with them, they only screw them up.

A '57 Bel Air or a 1911 may not fit my needs for every day practicality, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate them.