they stopped, and yes, some of them DO know to run when they hear gunfire. The Army dog handler school said the better dogs can learn up to 200 tricks, and some can reason about as well as can a 4 year old kid can do. Anyone who trains attack dogs can tell you that the dogs have to be trained to not fear  ANYTHING that a man holds in his hand, and even more training is needed to make them ignore being struck or having shots fired over their heads. Apparently you guys are so ignorant that you "think" that rifles and .50bmg's are easily carried concealed? Sheer stupidity, that. Ditto "thinking" that you will always KNOW when trouble is in the offing, so you will then go get your 12 ga. Pure BS. If I know when and where there will be trouble, I will simply not be there at that time. If some punk has to be eliminated, it is not going to happen when he sees me coming, or is in any postion to be armed, so the idea of "offense" with a gun is silly. If you dont see me coming, and are unarmed, I have no need of a gun.  A handful of coins to throw in your face, and a cane with which to whack the side of your knee, and you can then practice all the "ground-fighting" you wish, as I kick your head in and break your arms, etc.   :-) As to the clown who "thinks" that lethality is the issue, the .22 rimfire kills more people than any other caliber, every year. That does NOT make it a manstopper. Ditto the clown who "thinks" that 90 grs at 2000 fps DOESNT have the SAME recoil as does 200 grs at 900. You obviously never took any physics classes. There is absolutely no way to have real performance at the muzzle and not have fairly serious recoil at the butt. Ditto the clown who "thinks" that 90 grs at 2000 fps slows down enough to not blow a VERY large hole in his chest at 50meters. Since over 95% of JUSTIFIABLE civilian defense occurs at 10m or less, you should worry a LOT less about your silly 50m+ bs and a lot more about failing to stop men at arm's length. Your ignorance is showing. Bud, I have THOUSANDS of posts, all over the Net, and many times as many have been deleted. In actuality, less than 1% of my posts mention RBCD, and in quite a few posts about ammo, I have mentioned that I am not happy with the fact that their bullet is designed to go to dust at impact. So ALL of your detractions are meritless, what I said stands unrefuted. As always.