Charles Daily????? Good or Bad????

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Charles Daily????? Good or Bad????

Posted: 9/9/2003 6:28:49 AM EDT

I am about to trade my Piece of Crap, Springfield .45 Commander. This is the "Loaded" model with the beaver tail, matte finish, light trigger, novaks that come loose after every shot, etc. I holstered it in a fobus and the rivets carved it all to hell. Both Springfield and Fobus left me hanging on both.

My question is what is a suitable replacement? I looked at a charles Daily and it was great, it felt good in my hand, it was easy to cycle the slide and action, the extended slide release worked was so fluid and effortless in manipulating it. I cannot figure out why such a seemingly nice gun, one that has been optimized such as this, carries such a low price.

I need advice from everyone because I am about to do this. I grew up on the gun purchase rule of "if it feels good in your hand, if it points naturally and feels as an extension of your arm, then buy it." I paid 550.00 for my Springfield, I am going to try to trade it at 400.00 with all of the problems. Any advice appreciated.

Posted: 9/9/2003 6:39:12 AM EDT

[#1]

i like kimber.
they are well worth 800-1000 dollars.

short of that i think you will be disappointed with any 1911 that costs less than that.

RI and CD are both "quality" low end pistols. they may work great. i just like buying American and knowing i am getting a high quality steel.

Posted: 9/9/2003 8:39:52 AM EDT

[#2]

American?

Are Charles Daily's not made in America?

Posted: 9/9/2003 10:00:07 AM EDT

[#3]

The Charles Daly and Rock Island pistols are made in the Philippines on CNC equipment.

Posted: 9/9/2003 10:56:13 AM EDT

[#4]

Good luck......the only CD that was any good was back in the 70's and their over and under trap shotgun..........

Posted: 9/9/2003 11:19:48 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I am about to trade my Piece of Crap, Springfield .45 Commander. This is the "Loaded" model with the beaver tail, matte finish, light trigger, novaks that come loose after every shot, etc. I holstered it in a fobus and the rivets carved it all to hell. Both Springfield and Fobus left me hanging on both.

My question is what is a suitable replacement? I looked at a charles Daily and it was great, it felt good in my hand, it was easy to cycle the slide and action, the extended slide release worked was so fluid and effortless in manipulating it. I cannot figure out why such a seemingly nice gun, one that has been optimized such as this, carries such a low price.

I need advice from everyone because I am about to do this. I grew up on the gun purchase rule of "if it feels good in your hand, if it points naturally and feels as an extension of your arm, then buy it." I paid 550.00 for my Springfield, I am going to try to trade it at 400.00 with all of the problems. Any advice appreciated.

The CD would be worth a shot. They certainly produce no more lemons than Kimber and Springfield do these days. And right now they are doing better than Smith and Wesson by a long shot.

However the more you get away from the simple GI spec, the more problems do crop up. But that seems to apply to the American guns too.

Posted: 9/9/2003 12:31:47 PM EDT

[#6]

what kinds of problems. I have only had mil-specs in the past, the springfield champion and the colt 1991 A-1 Commander. Both jammed alot, both were incredibly stiff and rigid, and both were sub par overall. The sights don't even stay on my springfield and they told me that was not there problem. The Charles Daily seems smooth, the slide is not at all challenging to move, the trigger pull seemed nice. I understand what you are saying about things like the beavertails, extended slide stops, etc. I almost tried a mil spec operator.

Posted: 9/9/2003 1:11:19 PM EDT

[#7]

i have heard the new daly's are mostly pretty good. i have one of the older fs models. bought it new. i paid $350 for it, a box of pmc cartidges and a brass bore brush. the extractor was bad. put in a ed brown extractor, firing pin and firing pin stop along with wolf recoil and firing pin springs and no problems. i don't know how many thousands of rounds thru it. had it out to the range last weekend and put 150 flawless rounds thru it. it more accurate than i can shoot it. i was talking a guy out there that was having trouble with his springfield.
if you want to go up a couple $100 take a look at the new smith & wesson 1911. mcole

Posted: 9/9/2003 3:09:25 PM EDT

[#8]

you know WTF is up with these companies (Sprigfield, etc) who don't stand behind there work!?!? Geez, i wanted a Springfield so bad unitl i read the shit you guys go through...FUCK THEM...bunch of a-holes

Posted: 9/9/2003 4:33:18 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
i have heard the new daly's are mostly pretty good. i have one of the older fs models. bought it new. i paid $350 for it, a box of pmc cartidges and a brass bore brush. the extractor was bad. put in a ed brown extractor, firing pin and firing pin stop along with wolf recoil and firing pin springs and no problems. i don't know how many thousands of rounds thru it. had it out to the range last weekend and put 150 flawless rounds thru it. it more accurate than i can shoot it. i was talking a guy out there that was having trouble with his springfield.
if you want to go up a couple $100 take a look at the new smith & wesson 1911. mcole

Go and print out a copy of the Smith and Wesson Safety recall notice on www.1911forums.com and take it with you to make sure that the gun on the shelf is not one that you are going to have to send right back.

Posted: 9/9/2003 10:53:10 PM EDT

[#10]

First of all, SA stands behind their guns. I had them do some warranty work on one of their mags & they were very nice & had a decent turn around.

As for sights "not being their problem", were they aftermarket or factory?

And I would avoid Charles Daly like the plague. ANY gun made in the Philippines is less than ideal.

This is an entirely different company than made the fine Daly shotguns.

Posted: 9/10/2003 6:37:55 AM EDT

[#11]

I had a Charles Daily 1911 about 2 years ago. Bought it for 350 NIB, went through proper break in, no FTF or FTE, and I thought great something to shoot around with. That was till I got the IPSC bug, and tried it out in a competition. What a POS every 4-6 rounds, I would have either a stove pipe or a failure to feed. The gentleman who was ROing the match said he felt so sorry for me, he lent me his gun and let me reshoot all the stages. I took it to a couple of gunsmiths, they looked at it, and said that Charles Daily wouldn't do anything about rapid fire reliability, and it would take approx another 300 to get it running good. Well after that I picked up my Glock 21 and held onto both for about a year then traded both in for a H&K USP .45. All problems solved since then.

Posted: 9/10/2003 1:39:28 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

And I would avoid Charles Daly like the plague. ANY gun made in the Philippines is less than ideal.

Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. All available evidence points to the contrary. You have the same likeyhood of getting a bad gun with the US makers as with Armscor.

Posted: 9/10/2003 1:54:04 PM EDT

[#13]

I just got a Kimber TLE/RL and I love it! i couldn't reccomned anything else. The finish isn't the greatest but if you're looking for carry get a stainless gun.

Posted: 9/10/2003 10:14:18 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. All available evidence points to the contrary. You have the same likeyhood of getting a bad gun with the US makers as with Armscor.

Not proven at the range, bub. The two biggest POS I've seen or shot have been Llama & Charles Daly.

You might wish to bet your life on a POS Daly but I sure as hell won't.

As for concensus, hell, there used to be concensus that we keep slaves too, that didn't make it right.

Posted: 9/11/2003 7:27:29 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. All available evidence points to the contrary. You have the same likeyhood of getting a bad gun with the US makers as with Armscor.

Not proven at the range, bub. The two biggest POS I've seen or shot have been Llama & Charles Daly.

Besides which, you have a better chance of getting the manufacturer to make it right if you deal with U.S. companies. If you get a lemon from overseas you are entirely dependent on how the importer feels that day, if they are still in business.

And I'd much rather spend the time to fix a quirky Springfield than trying to get a Charles Daly to shoot worth a shit.

Posted: 9/11/2003 12:28:01 PM EDT

[#16]

bought a griffon----all the toys on it
$389.95 from cdnn---shoots great----works well

Posted: 9/11/2003 3:51:31 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Repeating it over and over again won't make it true. All available evidence points to the contrary. You have the same likeyhood of getting a bad gun with the US makers as with Armscor.

Not proven at the range, bub. The two biggest POS I've seen or shot have been Llama & Charles Daly.

Besides which, you have a better chance of getting the manufacturer to make it right if you deal with U.S. companies. If you get a lemon from overseas you are entirely dependent on how the importer feels that day, if they are still in business.

And I'd much rather spend the time to fix a quirky Springfield than trying to get a Charles Daly to shoot worth a shit.

Why would the Armsor be harder to deal with than a American company. The guns are made in the Philippines-but their warrenty shop is in Las Vegas Nevada.

Sorry to burst your bubble but all available evidence is that you are just as likely to get a lemon with Colt, Springfield, or Kimber as with Charles Daley or Rock Island.

If you don't want to risk getting a lemon you really shouldnt be looking at 1911's. Stick with a gun that only comes from one manufacturer, a Glock or a Sig-Sauer.

But we also all know about Glock Kabooms and "PhaseIII" jams. And I have seen new Sig 245's break their trigger springs during a course of a CCW class. Even they have lemons, just less often.

Posted: 9/11/2003 4:19:46 PM EDT

[#18]

I have had a CD for about a year now with no problems or complaints; minus one. The rear sight is loose, all I have to do is order a new one, but I just haven't done it yet. It shoots great and feels good in my hand. Some of you may have a hard time believing that it shoots great, but it is the truth. I would follow mcole's advice and take a look at S&W new 1911. I fondled one at the Sportsman's Warehouse in Portland and it's a nice gun; little pricey though.

Posted: 9/12/2003 5:48:53 AM EDT

[#19]

I like my Springfield, but I am so disappointed in the overall quality. The finish wore off like some cheap paint job, the gun is so rigid and tight that you can hardly chamber a round, and the sights come loose everytime I shoot it. If I knew of some way to break it in better, buy new springs, lighter springs, etc and get it refinished, and somehow buy some new sights that would work, though I had understood Novaks to be pretty good then I would consider keeping it. It has the permanent front sight which I would like to have removed and replaced with an AO sights Big Dot. Any advice on any of these.

Posted: 9/12/2003 5:51:30 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Why would the Armsor be harder to deal with than a American company. The guns are made in the Philippines-but their warrenty shop is in Las Vegas Nevada.

Yeah, right now it is, but what about next year or the year after?

I have seen a lot of importers come and go, and usually whoever picks up the line after one goes away doesn't want anything to do with honoring the warranty of the previous importer.

That's my biggest problem with the Phillipine guns. However, being as it's a 1911, you can usually get it fixed right down the street, because it's the one gun that almost every gunsmith knows how to work on.

The other problem I have with the CD's is that they have awful resale value. And now that the SA Milspec is $399, there is little reason to get the Daly unless you want all the common mods like beavertail, etc. already installed.

And I have seen new Sig 245's break their trigger springs during a course of a CCW class. Even they have lemons, just less often.

All guns break. Reputations are built on how well and quickly the company fixes them.

Posted: 9/12/2003 6:00:15 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
I like my Springfield, but I am so disappointed in the overall quality. The finish wore off like some cheap paint job, the gun is so rigid and tight that you can hardly chamber a round,
and the sights come loose everytime I shoot it. If I knew of some way to break it in better, buy new springs, lighter springs, etc and get it refinished, and somehow buy some new sights that would work, though I had understood Novaks to be pretty good then I would consider keeping it. It has the permanent front sight which I would like to have removed and replaced with an AO sights Big Dot. Any advice on any of these.

You probably have the matte blue job. There are plenty of options if you want it refinished. You could have it reblued for under $100, or even do it yourself. Sending it to someone like Mac's to have it GunKoted, Black-T, or NP3'd would be another option. Or you could send it to Accurate Plating, spend a little more, and have it hard chromed, in which case you'll never have to worry about the finish again.

As for the gun being tight, most people prize that in a 1911. Chances are it will loosen up and wear in after a few hundred more rounds. You can also buy lighter springs for it from http://www.gunsprings.com.

The SA Loaded's do have problems with the Novak sights. SA tends to cut the dovetail on the loose side, and glues in the sight with a lot of red Loctite. This can be fixed by staking the bottom of the sight, re-gluing it, or getting a gunsmith to fit a different rear sight. Also there should be a way to tighten it up with set screws.

The front sight can be removed with a minimum of fuss, and a new XS big dot sight staked in. Or you could have a front dovetail cut made, to accept whatever you want.

Posted: 9/12/2003 6:35:12 AM EDT

[#22]

How much would it cost to have a front dovetail cut in, and what would this do to resale or trade value being that this would not be the original configuration?

In response to the above, I don't think it is fair to pick on the CD or the Rock Island guns just because they are made overseas. I have a friend who bought a NIB Beretta 92 FS with the Trilux Tritium night sights and the front tritium insert came out. Beretta's response: "Sorry about your luck" He cannot buy the insert from them, he cannot do anything with it, they screwed him. This is the company providing sidearms for the U.S. government and they gave him the shaft.

Who knows if any gun company will be there in a year given the every increasing climate in gun control. Look at Colt, they just up and quit selling to the civilian sector without any apology or explanation. Look at what springfield did to me, look at what Beretta did to my friend. These are two of the top six companies in America that sell weapons and they aren't worth shit. I love these companies and their guns, but stand behind them, fix them if they break, repair them should they fail, honor your agreement to provide a service life to your product.

Posted: 9/12/2003 7:54:57 AM EDT

[#23]

Cutting a front dovetail could go anywhere from $40 to $80. Resale value wouldn't be affected because this is a common, desired modification.

Regarding the importers / customer service thing: it's possible to find examples of shitty customer service from anyone. It isn't accurate to generalize. Beretta and HK in particular are infamous for not giving a damn about the customer. I have heard generally good things about Springfield, SIGARMS, Taurus, and Colt. Glock and Kimber are two companies who seem to be better than average.

I ain't saying don't buy from importers, just that you shouldn't be surprised if you don't get much help from them. Anybody have an Interarms gun they can't get fixed?

Posted: 9/12/2003 9:38:50 AM EDT

[#24]

The old CD's were junk. The knew ones surprise me with their quality and price. With the EFS, the only thing I would do is replace the extended slide stop with a USGI one.

Posted: 9/12/2003 12:28:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Look at Colt, they just up and quit selling to the civilian sector without any apology or explanation.

Then how do you explain all the Colt guns at my local gunshop?

Any more BS you wish to float out there?

Posted: 12/23/2003 9:15:24 PM EDT

[#26]

For what it's worth guys, I bought a charles Daly EFS and yes I did have a problem with it. The trigger was very slightly over polished (rounded on one side, and not the other). I e mailed them, and the next day they instructed me to return the EFS ASAP, so they could fully inspect and repair. Within the week I had my gun back to me, with a new trigger and the original also. With a personal letter. Being in the shooting industry, I found there service very very top notch. I never had owned a 1911 prior to this purchase, but the guys I shoot with all had very good things to say about it. Mostly they liked the affordability, along with a very well shooting 1911.

Posted: 12/24/2003 3:26:57 PM EDT

[#27]

I'd check out the M-5. I could be wrong, so don't quote me, but I believe it is made by Bul Transmark in Israel. I read on a 1911 website that they also make the frames for the polymer Kimbers.

www.bultransmark.com/index2.htm

Take a close look at the three pictures. The last one is a Kimber, couldn't find one of the same side.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Charles Daily????? Good or Bad????

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