acheive rifle type velocities? If that IS what you "think", then you are 20 years behind the curve. Way back in 1982(that I know of, maybe a lot earlier) Arcane in France offered a 45 gr 9mm  bullet, at 2400 fps. So now I guess that you will say that the 150 gr 30-30 isn't REALLY  a rifle load, since that is all the velocty that it starts with! A 165 gr btsp 308, fired from an 18" barrel isnt really a rifle load, nor is that same bullet a rifle load anymore at 150 m, when launched from a 24" 30-06, because it HAS slowed down to 2400 fps at that range. Now, IF you can separate-out in your mind that bullet PERFORMANCE need not reflect either the caliber or the type of gun it was fired from, let's continue. A great many people simply CAN'T do this, so if you can't, please don't clutter up this thread. A LW Commander CAN launch a 70 gr, hollowbased slug at 2400 fps, and it can be controled as well in rapidfire as it can when .45 ball ammo is used. That's 900 ft lbs of energy, and it matches  or exceeds the 100m (or less) performance of the heavier 223 softpoints on animals. Those who have shot animals with these 223 loads know that they outperform 230 gr .45 jhp's by a wide margin. Now those who can't follow a simple train of thought will doubtless start in about not being able to carry a 223 in a holster. I just told you that the .45 can deliver the same ballistics as the 223, so we ARE talking about a carry pistol, just one that offers 223 rifle type of hitting power. That sort of bullet speed lets us do damage with the temporary cavity, just like the hi-v rifle softpoints do. So the NEXT time that you see someone allege that:" handguns can't acheive rifle velociites, you know that you are reading-hearing someone who is just ignorant of the FACTS. RBCD offers a 77 gr bullet at 2450 fps, in a 5" 10mm Mag, right NOW. So  you can't even say that such ammo isn't factory-available, because that is an ignorant statement as well.

At what max range will your light weight 45 loads still maintain your "hitting power"?

depends upon what you call "hitting power", i suppose. The same 300 ft lbs of a 230 gr .45 ball rd, with no expansion? 50m,( at least) which is easily 2x as far as I would  ever use the pistol in a fight. MIGHT use it in an ambush at such a range, I suppose, from a braced firing position, from behind solid cover, while wearing armor. It still pierces a 3/4" plywood panel, at 100m, and that is the Army's definition of "still-lethal".

I have an honest question jett3:

Do you work for RBCD or own a lot of stock in the company?  The reason I ask is because I don't think I've ever read one of your posts when you DON'T mention those four letters at least once.

When looking at handguns firing bullets at rifle velocities, those handgun bullets are much wider than they are long (low sectional density) and tend to lose velocity very quickly, underpenetrate targets, are unstable in flight due to their short length, and finally don't cycle automatic pistol actions due to the lack of recoil (almost like firing a blank).  Theoretically, it is possible to have a handgun fire an extremely light bullet at a higher velocity but these loads are usually poor performers.  That is why we have the pistol rounds we do.

I don't know of anybody that thinks a handgun shoots at rifle velocities.  

Re-reading your post, I guess we're all really, really stupid if we don't agree with you.

lol, whatever you say jett3

230gr FMJ and JHP rounds have been reliably killing men since the Phillipine Insurrection. What kind of real world gunfight stats are there for the lightweight projectiles you're talking about here?

Quoted: lol, whatever you say jett3

Better watch out.  According to some of his other posts he is the best fighter and best shot there is.

you would lose that bet. Yes, I have had to draw on a man charging me with a large crescent wrench, and have many times had to stop attacks by dogs. If you think I can't handle such problems, I can arrange for you to find out. :-)Plenty of people know very well that I know guns and fighting better than virtually anyone that you can name.

just to lighten things up. i was in a shop where the pseudo expert was telling the owner how the .30 carbine was a worthless cartridge, and how the 9mm was superior....
then i questioned him " if the .30 carbine is 110gr .308 with a vel of 1900fps, how can the 9mm 115gr at 1150fps be so much better?".

point is pick the right tool for the job, and keep the expreimental stuff for fun.

[

you would lose that bet. Yes, I have had to draw on a man charging me with a large crescent wrench, and have many times had to stop attacks by dogs. If you think I can't handle such problems, I can arrange for you to find out. :-)Plenty of people know very well that I know guns and fighting better than virtually anyone that you can name.

Poor dogs.

you would lose that bet. Yes, I have had to draw on a man charging me with a large crescent wrench, and have many times had to stop attacks by dogs. If you think I can't handle such problems, I can arrange for you to find out. :-)Plenty of people know very well that I know guns and fighting better than virtually anyone that you can name.

All hail the master.

Plenty of people know very well that I know guns and fighting better than virtually anyone that you can name.

Is that you, Obi-Wan Kenobi????????

So much for the "silent professionals," huh?

Really, like some of this is not old news anyway.  Arcane. KTW. PMC's tubular brass hollowpoint (what was the name of that round?).  PPS's all brass hollowpoints.  LawGrabbers. PinGrabbers. etc. etc. etc.

you would lose that bet. Yes, I have had to draw on a man charging me with a large crescent wrench, and have many times had to stop attacks by dogs. If you think I can't handle such problems, I can arrange for you to find out. :-)Plenty of people know very well that I know guns and fighting better than virtually anyone that you can name.

For dogs we usually use either a AWC Ruger MkII or AWC 10/22 with Lupua .22 LR MultiMatch 40 grain rounds.  

jett3 credentals

Faster than anyone on this board
knows all about ballistics
is a master of the jedi arts
Can whup your dogs butt
Master

Quoted: acheive rifle type velocities? If that IS what you "think", then you are 20 years behind the curve. Way back in 1982(that I know of, maybe a lot earlier) Arcane in France offered a 45 gr 9mm  bullet, at 2400 fps. So now I guess that you will say that the 150 gr 30-30 isn't REALLY  a rifle load, since that is all the velocty that it starts with! A 165 gr btsp 308, fired from an 18" barrel isnt really a rifle load, nor is that same bullet a rifle load anymore at 150 m, when launched from a 24" 30-06, because it HAS slowed down to 2400 fps at that range. Now, IF you can separate-out in your mind that bullet PERFORMANCE need not reflect either the caliber or the type of gun it was fired from, let's continue. A great many people simply CAN'T do this, so if you can't, please don't clutter up this thread. A LW Commander CAN launch a 70 gr, hollowbased slug at 2400 fps, and it can be controled as well in rapidfire as it can when .45 ball ammo is used. That's 900 ft lbs of energy, and it matches  or exceeds the 100m (or less) performance of the heavier 223 softpoints on animals. Those who have shot animals with these 223 loads know that they outperform 230 gr .45 jhp's by a wide margin. Now those who can't follow a simple train of thought will doubtless start in about not being able to carry a 223 in a holster. I just told you that the .45 can deliver the same ballistics as the 223, so we ARE talking about a carry pistol, just one that offers 223 rifle type of hitting power. That sort of bullet speed lets us do damage with the temporary cavity, just like the hi-v rifle softpoints do. So the NEXT time that you see someone allege that:" handguns can't acheive rifle velociites, you know that you are reading-hearing someone who is just ignorant of the FACTS. RBCD offers a 77 gr bullet at 2450 fps, in a 5" 10mm Mag, right NOW. So  you can't even say that such ammo isn't factory-available, because that is an ignorant statement as well.

zzzzz...
...huh, what is it over....phew!
i will settle all this s**t and let everyone know EXACTLY WHAT they should have as their CARRY weapon!



...concealable, stealth-able, hard hitting, low recoil goodness of the .50 BMG, which I know stands for Bad Mother Googly-moogly because i study gun-ology at the local community college.  I graduate with a B.S. ...oh, right about NOW!

oh and YES that is my hash pipe next to my gat!

You carry a pistol so you can survive to get to a long gun.  Period.

Heavier, faster, better.

Oh, by the way, on all the dog attacks stopped by you, mr jett, did you have to kill them or did the mere sight of the gun send them scampering?  So, you've either killed a bunch of dogs or dogs are smarter than we think.  Or did you fire in the air to scare them off?  That would be brilliant.

Would you people stop molesting the dogs please.