Springfield Armory conspiracy?

I have been noticing something weird of late. I can't find a picture of the left side of a Springfield Armory 1911 slide. Springfield's whole catalog doesn't show one picture of the left of one of the slides.

I was thinking about buying a mil spec for a project build and was curios how the roll marked looked. When I started trying to find a pic I could not find one anywhere..

Springfield's Website and both of their two latest catalogs I have both show the guns only from the right side..

Is this a conspiracy? lol. I was thinking that perhaps that's the side of the slide where they have the made in Brazil stamp so maybe Springfield is intentionally not showing the left part of the slide so people who are not informed will not realize the gun is foreign made?

I'm not knocking Springfield, I like the company but just noticed this and wondered if others noticed the same thing and what was thought of this?

Anyone have an actual left side of slide picture they could post? thanks so much.

Wow, Thanks for taking the time and effort to post those fantastic pics. Your personal collection? Rollmarks look pretty standard, a bit like the old roll mark 1991 colts. Where is the made in Brazil wording I was told about? Thanks again for the great pics.

It's stamped into the frame along the bottom, you can see it on mine just above the top round in the magazine in this picture.  There is also a stamping that is not visible under the grips.

Click on the picture for larger view
http://imagesocket.com/thumbs/1911_4e06.jpg

Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting.

They used to stamp "IMBEL" underneath the dust cover.

Now it's on the frame, under the right-side grip.

Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting.

XD's are made in Croatia. Used to be the HS2000. "Made in Croatia" right on the right side of the frame of my XD9.

My 1911 Mil-Spec has an Imbel frame (and maybe slide, dunno).

Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting.

Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.  

Quoted: Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting. Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.

You're kidding I hope.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting. Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.   You're kidding I hope.

He is talking about the company, which is completely unrelated with the now defunct US military armory in Springfield.

Yes, but this current bullshit company really is trying to capitalize on the original Springfield Armory name. I saw an ad in a gun rag proclaiming they were the "oldest name in American firearms" or something to that effect. They also had a picture of George Washington and the Constitution was in the backgound. I would say that was a shameless attempt to capitalize on a repuation/name they have NO relation to.

Quoted: Yes, but this current bullshit company really is trying to capitalize on the original Springfield Armory name. I saw an ad in a gun rag proclaiming they were the "oldest name in American firearms" or something to that effect. They also had a picture of George Washington and the Constitution was in the backgound. I would say that was a shameless attempt to capitalize on a repuation/name they have NO relation to.

This is correct. An excellent marketing move, BTW. To have a name like that with the history it has is terrific.

They are the oldest American name in firearms, IIRC. They're not lying.

It says "Welcome to Brazil" if I remember correctly!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting. Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.   You're kidding I hope.

I think they're custom shop here in the USA is capable of kicking out good guns, no?  It's the brazilian stuff that can be hit and miss.  Same goes for their M1A receivers which have an even worse reputation. (also of brazilian decent)

I'm not about boycotting a company that has foreign components, however.  As long as the Quality is there.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting. Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.   You're kidding I hope. I think they're custom shop here in the USA is capable of kicking out good guns, no?  It's the brazilian stuff that can be hit and miss.  Same goes for their M1A receivers which have an even worse reputation. (also of brazilian decent) I'm not about boycotting a company that has foreign components, however.  As long as the Quality is there.

Interesting. I was never aware...and always thought of them as a pretty all American company.

Guess not.

Yippee NAFTA.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting. Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.   You're kidding I hope.

I'm not joking.

The current "Springfield Armory" simply bought the rights to the name back in the ~1970's after the REAL Springfield Armory was shut down.  

Quoted: The current "Springfield Armory" simply bought the rights to the name back in the ~1970's after the REAL Springfield Armory was shut down.

I wonder what it cost to bastardize the name.  

All NM/LW/CRG serial numbered Springfield's are made in the USA. They are built from imported blank IMBEL forgings though.

I find SA's capitalizing of the Springfield Armory name a little distasteful, but I can think of many other companies who have done such with brand names, as well as others who bought the rights to a government name.

I'm a Springfield 1911 fan, but I wouldn't buy any of their M1A's, nor would I buy a GI or Mil Spec 1911 unless it was for modification.

Quoted: All NM/LW/CRG serial numbered Springfield's are made in the USA. They are built from imported blank IMBEL forgings though. I find SA's capitalizing of the Springfield Armory name a little distasteful, but I can think of many other companies who have done such with brand names, as well as others who bought the rights to a government name. I'm a Springfield 1911 fan, but I wouldn't buy any of their M1A's, nor would I buy a GI or Mil Spec 1911 unless it was for modification.

Same here, I love my Springfield 1911 TRP, but I would NEVER buy any of their M1's or XD's.

I thought the guns where made (machined and assembled) in the U.S. and that they just used castings that where made at Embel in Brazil.

Quoted: I thought the guns where made (machined and assembled) in the U.S. and that they just used castings that where made at Embel in Brazil.

All SA's are forged.

The GI guns are made and assembled in Brazil. SA is just a middle man for the GI guns.

N serial numbered guns were more than 80% complete upon importation requiring a serial number, but may or may not have final machining or assembly done in America.

NM serial numbered guns come in with the frames less than 80% complete, requiring American machining prior to obtaining a serial number. Assembly is done in America as well. It's alleged that the Operator frames come in as special forged blanks and have no prior maching done to them.

LW serial numbered pistols are the aluminum framed versions, and I've been told the same applys to them as it does to the NM serial numbered guns.

CRG numbered guns are made from blank forgings. These would be the professional models.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Never knew Springfield had any part of their guns made outside the U.S. Interesting. Springfield Armory is just the name of a company, nothing more.  They have no affiliation whatsoever with the original Springfield Armory and are just trying to capitalize off their good reputation.   You're kidding I hope. I'm not joking. The current "Springfield Armory" simply bought the rights to the name back in the ~1970's after the REAL Springfield Armory was shut down.

In related news, "Rock Island Armory" isn't synonymous with "Rock Island Arsenal"

AS a hater of all things Springfield ( with very good reason ) I have to chime in here.

There is always a lot of ballyhooing about the Forged In Brazil frames and slides of the Springfields.  Sincerely, this ballyhooing is in error.  The frames and slides are forged by the famed Imbel company of Brazil.  This company is and has been a very well respected name in the forgin world for years.  The have VERY modern facilites and turn out very stout products.  This does NOT mean they are without error as they, like ALL manufacturing companies have problems and issues to deal with just like veryone does.

The frames and slide on Springfield guns are generally GREAT for turning out a Custom piece. The are pretty good dimensionally and where they are "off spec" it is usually to the "plus" side, giving you EXTRA metal to work with.  Springfield frames and slides are very handsome and very appealing for a custom job.

Now, when it comes to INTERNALS AND ASSEMBLY this is where Springfield jumps the shark.  They do a really good job at turning out a great looking gun with a lot of just plain SHIT internals and often very poor internal fitting.  Since they probably spend a premium at getting a great looking exterior and a really solid frame and slide they have to save money somehwere and they do it with cheap labor and little Q.C. on assembly and small parts.  I often wonder if S.A. even knows what the term Q.C. means.

Now, does this mean that every gun that SA turns out is junk?  No.  A good many of SA guns are just fine...expecially considering that across the board, probably 80 percent of the guns they sell rarely get fired more than once a year. So what's to worry about?  For them it is cheaper to use the "Lifetime Warranty" function to fixe maybe two percent of the total pistols they sell a year....and that must be a shitload.  You see, for them, it is all about money....and economically they can AFFORD to have guns go out not exactly perfect because no one really notices besides us...and for the most part, most of those guns work pretty well as is.

So that's fine....unless you are someone who need a gun on which to defend his life.  Still, most guns used for carry ( particularly 1911s ) get gutted and refitted anyway....so why not let the custom guys do it?  When you are buying a Springfield Loaded, do NOT think for a minute you are getting and edge on Colt or Kimber or ANYONE...you are buying a SLICK LOOKING gun that was made as cheaply as possible.  It LOOKS CUSTOM and that is why they sell.....but do you REALLY think you'll get the same thing as a Ned Christiansen gun for $738 dollars off the shelf???????

Anyway, all things being equal, REAL carry guns get modded anyway and there is no shame in using a Springfield frame and slide for that purpose.....after all, IT'S THE BEST PART OF THE GUN.

Imbel makes good recievers, I have plenty of FAL recievers from them along with my Springer GI





edited: because I can't spell  

Quoted: AS a hater of all things Springfield ( with very good reason ) I have to chime in here. There is always a lot of ballyhooing about the Forged In Brazil frames and slides... ...Anyway, all things being equal, REAL carry guns get modded anyway and there is no shame in using a Springfield frame and slide for that purpose.....after all, IT'S THE BEST PART OF THE GUN.

Well said.

On my second barrel for my M1A, still watting on problems to show. Note barrel was replaced due to wear and tear (large group size).

One thing I can say about springer they fixed my high cap everytime i cracked the frame. did not cost me a dime.

Quoted: Embel makes good recievers, I have plenty of FAL recievers from them along with my Springer GI

It's IMBEL, not embel...  

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: All NM/LW/CRG serial numbered Springfield's are made in the USA. They are built from imported blank IMBEL forgings though. I find SA's capitalizing of the Springfield Armory name a little distasteful, but I can think of many other companies who have done such with brand names, as well as others who bought the rights to a government name. I'm a Springfield 1911 fan, but I wouldn't buy any of their M1A's, nor would I buy a GI or Mil Spec 1911 unless it was for modification. Same here, I love my Springfield 1911 TRP, but I would NEVER buy any of their M1's or XD's.

Why XD's?? Just curious

XD, is the name of SA plastic handgun line.  The XD .45 has gotten alot of attention lately, mainly because it holds 14 rounds of .45 ACP in a relatively compact package and its cheap to buy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All NM/LW/CRG serial numbered Springfield's are made in the USA. They are built from imported blank IMBEL forgings though. I find SA's capitalizing of the Springfield Armory name a little distasteful, but I can think of many other companies who have done such with brand names, as well as others who bought the rights to a government name. I'm a Springfield 1911 fan, but I wouldn't buy any of their M1A's, nor would I buy a GI or Mil Spec 1911 unless it was for modification. Same here, I love my Springfield 1911 TRP, but I would NEVER buy any of their M1's or XD's. Why XD's?? Just curious

Because I will never trust my life to something made in Croatia, especially when there are many other, and far better options out there like Sig, HK, and Glock.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: All NM/LW/CRG serial numbered Springfield's are made in the USA. They are built from imported blank IMBEL forgings though. I find SA's capitalizing of the Springfield Armory name a little distasteful, but I can think of many other companies who have done such with brand names, as well as others who bought the rights to a government name. I'm a Springfield 1911 fan, but I wouldn't buy any of their M1A's, nor would I buy a GI or Mil Spec 1911 unless it was for modification. Same here, I love my Springfield 1911 TRP, but I would NEVER buy any of their M1's or XD's. Why XD's?? Just curious Because I will never trust my life to something made in Croatia, especially when there are many other, and far better options out there like Sig, HK, and Glock.

I mean is there something wrong with it because it's made in croatia? It's been proven to be as reliable as glock,  I own an XD 45 and I chose it over a Glock 21, a sig p220, and a HK USP.

I felt the ergonomics of it were better and it just fit in my hand better plus I shot better with it then all the rest. i'm not meaning to be a pest or a troll but just wondering why something is wrong with a croatian made pistol. By the way I purchased mine long before it made the NRA handgun of the year and before it was publically announced.

never buy a gun or ammo from a country you will not drink the water in.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All NM/LW/CRG serial numbered Springfield's are made in the USA. They are built from imported blank IMBEL forgings though. I find SA's capitalizing of the Springfield Armory name a little distasteful, but I can think of many other companies who have done such with brand names, as well as others who bought the rights to a government name. I'm a Springfield 1911 fan, but I wouldn't buy any of their M1A's, nor would I buy a GI or Mil Spec 1911 unless it was for modification. Same here, I love my Springfield 1911 TRP, but I would NEVER buy any of their M1's or XD's. Why XD's?? Just curious Because I will never trust my life to something made in Croatia, especially when there are many other, and far better options out there like Sig, HK, and Glock. I mean is there something wrong with it because it's made in croatia? It's been proven to be as reliable as glock,  I own an XD 45 and I chose it over a Glock 21, a sig p220, and a HK USP. I felt the ergonomics of it were better and it just fit in my hand better plus I shot better with it then all the rest. i'm not meaning to be a pest or a troll but just wondering why something is wrong with a croatian made pistol. By the way I purchased mine long before it made the NRA handgun of the year and before it was publically announced.

XD's have not been proven to be reliable as Glocks, HK's, or Sig's.  

I liken the XD to something like the S&W M&P pistol, i'm sure it's a decent gun, but when there are firearms on the market from the likes of Sig, HK, Glock, etc. which have several decades of history and proven reliability in the worst of conditions, why would you not buy one of these guns and instead opt for something that is unproven and from a place like Croatia?  

If Springfield didn't give it some high speed low drag sounding name like "XD" and didn't have such incredible marketing power, nobody would buy the gun or even give it a second look.  

Springfield finds some obscure 30 year old gun that no one has heard of from a country that 99.9% of people cannot locate on a map, imports it, gives it some slick sounding name, and creates advertisements basically proclaiming that if Jesus carried a gun, he'd carry an XD - and then the masses all flocked to buy it.

Their finish still suck!

Quoted: Quoted: Embel makes good recievers, I have plenty of FAL recievers from them along with my Springer GI It's IMBEL, not embel...

shhhh I looked up and spelled it the way the guy above my post did yes you are correct it is IMBEL and I'm going to go hide in shame now

I have owned 3 M1As and 5 Springfield 1911s. None of them were safe queens. All were or are shot regularly. So far, all of them have been excellent guns. So, I guess that I am just very lucky in regard to firearms.


BTW, I am not trying to contradict anyone.

Because I will never trust my life to something made in Croatia, especially when there are many other, and far better options out there like Sig, HK, and Glock.

I liken the XD to something like the S&W M&P pistol, i'm sure it's a decent gun, but when there are firearms on the market from the likes of Sig, HK, Glock, etc. which have several decades of history and proven reliability in the worst of conditions, why would you not buy one of these guns and instead opt for something that is unproven and from a place like Croatia?

   
    30 years ago couldn't the same arguement have been said about Glock?  Why would I want to buy a pistol thats made of plastic.  It can't be any good if it's made from plastic.  And why is something that happens to be made in Croatia automatically a bad product?

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Quoted: XD's have not been proven to be reliable as Glocks, HK's, or Sig's.   I liken the XD to something like the S&W M&P pistol, i'm sure it's a decent gun, but when there are firearms on the market from the likes of Sig, HK, Glock, etc. which have several decades of history and proven reliability in the worst of conditions, why would you not buy one of these guns and instead opt for something that is unproven and from a place like Croatia?   If Springfield didn't give it some high speed low drag sounding name like "XD" and didn't have such incredible marketing power, nobody would buy the gun or even give it a second look.   Springfield finds some obscure 30 year old gun that no one has heard of from a country that 99.9% of people cannot locate on a map, imports it, gives it some slick sounding name, and creates advertisements basically proclaiming that if Jesus carried a gun, he'd carry an XD - and then the masses all flocked to buy it.

springfield-armory.primediaoutdoors.com/SPstory11.html

There was a time when Glock, HK, and Sig all had "unproven reliability" and no known "history" even in the most perfect conditions, why did anyone give them a chance?

Quoted: Because I will never trust my life to something made in Croatia, especially when there are many other, and far better options out there like Sig, HK, and Glock. I liken the XD to something like the S&W M&P pistol, i'm sure it's a decent gun, but when there are firearms on the market from the likes of Sig, HK, Glock, etc. which have several decades of history and proven reliability in the worst of conditions, why would you not buy one of these guns and instead opt for something that is unproven and from a place like Croatia?         30 years ago couldn't the same arguement have been said about Glock?  Why would I want to buy a pistol thats made of plastic.  It can't be any good if it's made from plastic.  And why is something that happens to be made in Croatia automatically a bad product?

It's not.  CZ's are some of the best pistols there are.  So I hear.  I have no experience with one though.  But to be honest, I've never heard anyone badmouth a CZ and I hear they are wildly popular with the locals.  And reliable too.

Springfield an unethical company because they bought the old springfield name?  Well, I think that's a bit of an overstatement.  If I were to build cars and Ford was for sale, I think I'd like having the name recognition.  It's only about the money.  Well if it isn't, they won't be around and we wont be able to buy them.

Springfield M1A's are junk.  That's just BS.  I have one.  It's great.  The one I have has some GI parts on it.  Which are supposed to be the best.  Is it all GI? No.  However, it's nowhere near a POS as someone stated.  Do some of them have problems?  I'm sure they do.  But I agree with the one poster, it's a small percentage.  And they do back up their product.  There are only so many M14 copies you can buy nowaday's.  And an original one is almost impossible to get and would cost more than most of us are willing to spend on any rifle.  I say quit whining about springfield.  It's a good company.  Is everything they make the best?  Of course not, but most of their product is very serviceable, as is Kimber, Colt, and whoever else you want to put in there.  My milspec has been very, very reliable.  I'm not thrilled with it's accuracy, but I'll be danged if it don't go bang when I pull the trigger.  And yes, if you want a super duper accurate and bulletproof 1911, you're going to have to spend some money.

I say get over it.

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Quoted: Their finish still suck!

I guess glock's finish sucks too then huh?

My Springfield Milspec is an NM serial numbered model with no Brazil stampings on it. I believe the finishing was done in the United States after being imported from Brazil. I have never personally had a problem with Imbel forgings. I think they do some high quality work. My Milspec also came with a one piece barrel and stainless bushing as opposed to the two piece they normally come with. Very nicely finished piece for $450. Functions perfect as well. No failures in approx. 2000 rounds and fairly accurate.

I like the Milspec because it is a great base platform to work off of.

gives it some slick sounding name, and creates advertisements basically proclaiming that if Jesus carried a gun, he'd carry an XD - and then the masses all flocked to buy

I dont know why,but I find that funny as hell



btw,I love my XD-40 tactical and I have no doubt Jesus will be carrying one just like it come judgement day

Two American brothers own Springfield which they inherited from their father who started the current business of SA. Sometime ago the two brothers decided to bring in a partner to have an odd number of disputes to settle disagreements of policy etc etc. The new guy is a wealthy investor who lives overseas. So in essence SA is at least 33% foriegn owned.

Quoted: Two American brothers own Springfield which they inherited from their father who started the current business of SA. Sometime ago the two brothers decided to bring in a partner to have an odd number of disputes to settle disagreements of policy etc etc. The new guy is a wealthy investor who lives overseas. So in essence SA is at least 33% foriegn owned.

Yet Colt's majority shareholder is reportedly an investor's group led by a French guy and a Saudi Arabian.

Okay, here's my two cents.

My Springfield only has:

   CHAMPION
     CAL .45

written on the slide on the left side. It has the Imbel stamp on the frame in front of the trigger gaurd.
My Champion is one of the factory O.D. finished guns, and the finish lots great still. There is minor blueing wear on the sharp places on the slide. This gun gets carried nearly everyday, and is my nightstand gun when I'm home. I have never had a problem with it after I threw away a bad mag that was causing problems.

Kevin

Back to topic. Here's the left side of mine. Nothing special and it has never let me down. I do think the right side is more photogenic





Mark

It's not. CZ's are some of the best pistols there are. So I hear. I have no experience with one though.  But to be honest, I've never heard anyone badmouth a CZ and I hear they are wildly popular with the locals. And reliable too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't CZ a Czech company, not Croatian?

Quoted: It's not. CZ's are some of the best pistols there are. So I hear. I have no experience with one though.  But to be honest, I've never heard anyone badmouth a CZ and I hear they are wildly popular with the locals. And reliable too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't CZ a Czech company, not Croatian?

What's the difference?

Actually, I think at one time there wasn't a difference.  Anyone want to update me on the history.  Something like Croatia got chopped up into Czech Republic, or .....  ahhh.... I don't know.  OK, I'm ignorant, you win.

Sorry, I was a history major.

Czechoslovakia broke into the Czech Republic and Slovakia.  Croatia was part of Yugoslavia, which broke into Serbia, Bosnia, and Croatia.  WOW! I actually remember something from college.

Quoted: never buy a gun or ammo from a country you will not drink the water in.

I wouldn't drink the water in Germany Does that mean you would not buy their guns?

Quoted: Imbel makes good recievers, I have plenty of FAL recievers from them along with my Springer GI edited: because I can't spell

Can I have one?

Please.