Quoted: There was a recent home invasion robbery here; one of the orcs was wearing body armor.
So, is the 7.62 X 25 as good or better than the 9mm? (penetration wise especially)
7.62X25 is overall better at penetration.
And what about the CZ-52...is this a good gun?
Inexpensive. Solidly built. Commercial and surplus ammo available. It also has the 'cool' Com-Block factor.
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Check out one of my threads here--->
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=74466 reprinted below:
My parents are originally from Hungary and I've always been intrigued by Soviet block firearms. I recently purchased a CZ-52 pistol and have done some reading about it. I've come across a lot of threads that tout its soft body armor piercing capability but I would like to see what others have to say about this.
What I've found seems rather underwhelming for 85gr. FMJ lead-core ammo, although I didn't buy the pistol so I could shoot criminals wearing level IIA vests. That's what AR's (ETA: and AK's) are for.
The following is what I've found on the internet (big qualification
) and I'm simply interested in people's comments about it:
1) According to
Body Armor #1:
Level III-A
(24-28 Layers of Kevlar)
Caliber-----------Bullet Weight (Grains)---Bullet Type-----Barrel (Inches)----Velocity (Feet/Second) 7.62x25 Tokarev-----------86---------------------AP-----------------?---------------------------1440
This does back up the body armor piercing capability, but since AP ammo is not legally available in the U.S. in handgun calibers it is a moot point.
2) According to
Body Armor #2,
Level II
(20-24 Layers of Kevlar)
Caliber--------Bullet Weight (Grains)----Bullet Type----Barrel (Inches)------Velocity (Feet/Second) 7.62X25--------------------85gr.----------------VSP FMJ----------24------------------------------1250
I'm not sure where they got the 24" barrel. Since it is a British site I thought maybe it is in cm, but it clearly shows that it is in inches. I don't know of any rifles that shoot the 7.62X25mm cartridge, but I'm sure there are some. I thought maybe the CZ/VZ-52 but according to
this it is chambered in either 7.62 x 45mm M52 cartridge or 7.62 x 39 mm M43.
ETA: I'm not sure why the velocity was so low with such a long barrel.
The submachine guns chambered in 7.62X25mm have much shorter barrels. An example is the Klin-2:
Klin-2
The Klin-2 was designed by Victor kalashnikov and Alexey Dragunov, the sons of the two most notable Russian smallarms designers. The weapon utilizes a modified version of the AK-108s balanced recoil system which is reported to make the high rate of fire very controlable. 7.62x25mm is best known for it's use in the TT-33 Tokarev, but was chosen for the Kiln-2 because the terminal ballistics and armor penetration are superior to the 9x18mm and 9x19mm.
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3) According to
Body Armor #3:
Level III-A+ (
not sure what the "+" means)
(24-28 Layers of Kevlar)
Caliber-----------Bullet Weight (Grains)---Bullet Type-----Barrel (Inches)----Velocity (Feet/Second) 7.62x25 Tokarev--------------?---------------'steel jacket'----------?----------------------1443 (440m/s)
I'm not sure if they truly mean a copper gilding steel jacket or steel-core (AP), but I'm guessing the former.
There are other sites that give even more incomplete descriptions such as only describing the bullet as '7.62X25 Tokarev'.
Comments?