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Posted: 1/24/2006 8:55:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Sorry I can't help you further, but is it the gun shooting low, or you shooting low? Let someone else shoot it and see if they get the same results. Usually gun problems happen about an arms length behind the weapon itself. It may be a matter of adjusting your sight picture, with no physical modification to the actual pistol. The reasoning behind this is if you ever need to pick up someone else's pistol, you will be so used to your modified sights that compensate for a sighting issue, that your low shooting problem will re-appear, and most likely in a more pronounced fassion.
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Posted: 1/24/2006 9:00:39 AM EDT
[#2]
JJ if you don't have anything going on on friday I'll be out at the club, not sure on the time yet. But I'd be willing to shoot it a bit and see whats up. That way you can be sure if it's the gun or you. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 3:50:53 PM EDT
[#3]
You and your bankers hours or swing shifts or whatever it is you got!!!! I'll be working 8-5 friday. Like on the plantation. So I know I can't go. But, BUT, I'm planning on going Saturday morning. Early, early, Like 7-9. But I don't think it's me. It could be. It was the same with my 1911 though and a little bit higher rear sight and it was dead nuts on. But I sure am willing to let anyone else shoot it. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 3:52:02 PM EDT
[#4]
BTW, what in the heck are you doing in here photoman? Did you buy a Beretta or are you looking to get one??????
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Posted: 1/25/2006 5:45:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Just saw yer post figured I'd stop in and see whats up. I used to own a beretta 92INOX but I didn't like it all that much and never shot it that much so I sold it when I sold my AK. There is a hunters safety class in the morning saturday, and in the afternoon is the first NFA shoot of the year(start shooting at noon). I have to work till four saturday but I'll be out there. Stop out for it if you have the time. 
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Posted: 1/25/2006 1:50:25 PM EDT
[#6]
hey badgers
 my berreta 96 always shoots low for me. remember to cover the bullseye with the front sight on a berretta92 or 96. that said I still shoot low. 
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Posted: 1/25/2006 3:49:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Where are they having the hunters safety and what time?? I was planning on going to the 25 meter range and shooting the pi-- out of my Beretta. |
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Posted: 1/26/2006 5:27:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Hunters safety is done over by the clubhouse and the trap/skeet fields. The NFA shoot kicks off at noon and they are setting up for it before that so the 25m range may be out of service around 10am if not a little earlier. I'll be out there as soon as I get off of work at 4 so I should be out there around 4:30pm. So if ya go out early, come back later and catch the night shoot with the MGs
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Posted: 1/27/2006 8:47:55 AM EDT
[#9]
JJ- Any progress on this?
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Posted: 1/27/2006 1:41:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Well, I cleaned it last night. I'm going in the morning and going to do a more anal type of test. I have right now 4 different kinds of ammo. Last time at the range the 147's we're shooting even lower. It still could be me, but I'll know more tomorrow. Alot of times it's just the different kind of ammo. So I'll probably get some kinds to find out how much that plays into it. |
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Posted: 1/27/2006 1:42:18 PM EDT
[#11]
How low is at say about 15 yards?? |
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Posted: 1/28/2006 4:04:24 PM EDT
[#12]
OK, I guess I'm full of crap. Well partly. I did some benchrest testing and it's definitely not shooting low. It was, however, shooting left. But not nearly as much as I thought. I may need to drift the sight a hair depending on what ammo I use for zero, but none of it shot right so, I probably need to do that a hair. Regardless, it's pretty well close to POI as it is now.
I shot 4 different ammo types today. WWB 115 FMJ Wally world value pack of 100, American Eagle 124 grain FMJ, WWB 147 Flat point fmj's, and Black Hills Red 124 grain +p hollow points. I used a bench and shot 10 rounds of each kind of ammo at 10 yards and 20 yards. I don't have a ransom rest or anything like that, I just propped my hands up on a softer type shooting rest sitting on top of a sandbag. So there is still some user error but the groups were pretty good for a run of the mill, no special trigger etc, etc, pistol.  WWB 115 fmj 4" 10 shot 10 yards  AE 124's 1-3/4"  WWB 147 FPfmj 2-1/2"  BHRed 124 +p 2-3/4" These are the 20 yard groups:  147's 3-7/8"  BH 124+p's 4"  wwb 115 6"  AE's 124 4" Well, maybe it just needed a cleaning, maybe it was the way the light was hitting the sights and most likely I was anticipating and pushing the shots down. But, I'm pretty happy with how it shot today. The last thing I did was rip off about 48 shots and a silhouette target, 2 cans and 2 logs. Now that is fun. I can fit 16 rounds in my factory mags. Has anyone else noticed this?   |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 5:20:26 AM EDT
[#13]
JJ before you go screwing with the sights, lets get together and shoot and we'll see if we can't fix that shooting left thing. It may be you. I made the mistake of fucking with my sights when it was me. I had to put them back to "normal" after Pistol 1/2 with Sully because he fixed a few things for me durring class. If you want I'm free this weekend just let me know what works for you.
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Posted: 1/29/2006 5:29:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Well, I'm open to suggestions now. After seeing how big of a difference it made when I took my time and really concentrated how much better it shot. Plus, if you look at the very first grouping at 10 yards with the WWB, those two in the red were my first 2 shots. And after I saw that I was like dang, Maybe I am doing something wrong, and then everything sort of shifted left a little bit. You can see, its more with some ammo than with others. So I don't really know if it's me. But I know you have very good tips after taking sully's class. Problem is, you and I are never at the Range at the same time.  I'm planning on going next saturday morning again, early, and then probably again sunday afternoon.Did you see all the clay pigeons at the 25 meter range?? Someone was having some fun. I liked it though because I was shooting some chunks on the berm with my M1 carbine. 
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Posted: 1/29/2006 5:55:32 AM EDT
[#15]
I always always always shoot 2 cm left at 12.5 meters just like JJREA, but it shoots perfect from a benchrest so I guess I'm doing something wrong. I tried everything, finger, grip, elbow and toe too, but no way, I always hit 2 cm left. What did you changed in yr shooting technique? |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:05:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Mostly the grip. That and cleaning up the trigger press really made a lot of improvments in my pistol shooting. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 6:06:32 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm free all day both days. You just let me know what time in the morning and I'll meet ya out there. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:04:50 AM EDT
[#18]
My plan is to be out there at 7:30 am on Saturday morn and about 2 on sunday. If you're going to go out saturday, tell me for sure so I don't stand you up. I'm going to a music concert the night before but it's at a church only 10 minutes from my house so I doubt it'll be too late that I can't get up to go shooting!!! |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:12:58 AM EDT
[#19]
www.berettaforum.net/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000903 for some info on sights etc.
I have been told that the sights on the Beretta were designed for the shooter to "shoot the dot" meaning that you put the little dot on what you want to hit, which is a bear for me trying to relearn after years of practicing the usual means of sight alignment. Also, hotter rounds seem to shoot higher for me. Silvertips shoot right on for me vs WWB and other practice ammo shooting 8" low or so at 25. Have not tried it from the bench yet though. |
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Posted: 1/29/2006 11:26:51 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 1/30/2006 5:14:44 AM EDT
[#21]
I'll be there. If ya got a holster for it bring that with and a couple extra mags too. |
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Posted: 1/30/2006 3:43:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Sweet, the target time is 7:30 am and we'll have some 25 meter range fun!!! I'll have to leave at 8:30 am though. So we get an hour.!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:19:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Should be more thn enough time. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 3:56:06 PM EDT
[#24]
I'll bring a 1000 rounds!! Sorry about today. I didn't think it would go through. We need to cut the snakes head off and we might have chance then. |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 5:22:09 AM EDT
[#25]
See ya saturday. |
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Posted: 2/2/2006 11:09:35 AM EDT
[#26]
JJ just a heads up we'll have to meet over on the 100 because the military is going to be out there this weekend.
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Posted: 2/2/2006 2:56:59 PM EDT
[#27]
nooooooooooo!!!!!!! Dang military! Just kidding. Alright man, I'm looking forward to it.
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Posted: 2/2/2006 3:40:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Same with me Mark. A big +1. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 5:04:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Photoman, I found your suggestion inspiring so I made a review of my grip. This was my group today: http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4440/p2050052bestgroup5fv.jpg Two hands from 14 yards. The black dot is 2 inches diameter. Thanks. |
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Posted: 2/5/2006 6:30:25 PM EDT
[#30]
What did you change? You should show us with a picture a before and after pic ( picture of your grip). Since photoman showed me a good grip he learned from sully last summer, I can control my weapon a little better and am more accurate. It's amazing what a little change will do. As far as mine shooting left. Photoman shot mine and agreed it was shooting left. So I floated my sight and it's alot better now. It still aint perfect but it's enough to be shooting pretty close to poi at 25 yards. At least shooting free hand. It's still a hair left, but that might be me. Plus a little low too, but nothing earth shattering, at least for defensive purposes. With more shooting and time, it's secrets will reveal itself for me to achieve mind of matter, what the hell am I saying? 
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Posted: 2/6/2006 6:20:43 AM EDT
[#31]
What type of grip were you using? |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 6:22:48 AM EDT
[#32]
JJ was that you that made the "you have to let us shoot yer SAWs" comment to the Marine?
That was pretty funny. It was cool seeing all those guys back out at the club again. I wish I'd have had a camera with me though. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 11:02:15 AM EDT
[#33]
I adopt a Weaver stance and my "new" grip is nothing special actually, I just keep the left hand so that it doesn't squeeze the tip of the lower fingers below. I try also to grip the stock of my FS98 axially, I mean that I hold the gun with the middle finger bone only, pushing rear to the thumb base . In few word I avoid to grip the sides.....I 'm afraid that my English is not so good to explain that. At the beginning my shots were all the time 2 1/2 inches out, at 10 - 11 o'clock and I'm quite sure that it was because my right elbow collapses a little bit after the release of the hammer. I made 1000 tests with the position of the finger on the trigger, but without significant result. I try also with Chapman stance that means keeping your elbow straight like the stock of a rifle. With that stance my bullets lost some of their habit to hit high-left, and then moving closer to the centre of the target, but the accuracy was badly effected increasing the diameter of my group about two times. http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6196/grip0od.jpg So my the group on my photo before were made in Weaver, trying to keep my elbow firm despite slightly bent, with the grip as above. That day I was really quite and happy and I guess it was 75% of the good performance. Suggestions to improve my groups are welcome and will be paid with coffee free for one week…Italian coffee of course. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 12:08:51 PM EDT
[#34]
I'll see what I can do about getting a pic of the grip I use(as taught by Sully at Defensive Edge) tonight or tomarrow and I'll post it up for you. It's totaly different. Actually I'll see if I can find a pic of it around there has to be some somewhere from class or on Sully's site.
Link to pic If you look at the top of the page there is a pic of a grip on a glock. Thats the same grip I use. That and getting the trigger finger in the right position is what cleaned up my pistol shooting the most. It was shown to me at a carbine class in 04 but untill I actually took the tactical pistol class with Sully, I never really understood it all that much and still needed some tweaking on it in class. I'll see what I can do about some more pics though. Might be a couple days. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 3:40:14 PM EDT
[#35]
Yeah, that was me. And if he would've took me up on that, that would've been a cool morning!!!!!!!!! Anyways, here's a pic of the grip I use after photoman showed me what he learned at sully's class. I was going to go to the class but I had to be somewhere that weekend and I missed the deadline. Next time. But, it gives my more control than the old grip I used to have. I learned this grip with a 1911 so it's a little different. On a 1911, my right thumb sits right on top the safety. On the Beretta, I have to keep it on top of my hand so I don't stop the slide catch from running up when it needs to. I personally like an Iscocoles way better. But that's what's most comfortable for me. Weaver just feels dang weird to me. But then so did this grip when I first started using it.  Nice looking Pistol Paolo. Looks just like mine!!!  As far as your grip, you shoot totally different than I and I don't think I would suggest anything. If it works for you, that's what counts. But sometimes little tweaks from people that know what they're doing, can make all the difference. But there are probably respectable people that wouldn't agree with sully's method either because it's not what they use. Actually, I would suggest a little less finger on the trigger. At least from how I'm looking at it. |
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Posted: 2/6/2006 6:09:56 PM EDT
[#36]
One of the things I ended up having to do was play around a bit with the position of my off hand thumb till I found that right spot. And it can be different on different guns too. i'm slightly more forward on a glock and slightly further back on a 1911. With a beretta it's about the same as with the baby eagle.
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Posted: 2/6/2006 7:16:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Dang, I got way more hair on my arms then him. I think that happens when you get old.
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