Thanks

I think the military M9 has a chrome bore also where the civilian model 92FS dont.

Quoted: I think the military M9 has a chrome bore also where the civilian model 92FS dont.

Indeed chromed bore and chamber on the M-9,  there are also a number of part on the M-9 that are steel as apposed to alluminum alloy or alluminum alloy as apposed to synthetic like the guide rod for example.  There are also some differences in the finish.

So do the 'special edition' M9 models they made for the civilan market have all the features of the true M9 or are they just 92FS stamped M9 instead?

Quoted: Quoted: I think the military M9 has a chrome bore also where the civilian model 92FS dont. Indeed chromed bore and chamber on the M-9,  there are also a number of part on the M-9 that are steel as apposed to alluminum alloy or alluminum alloy as apposed to synthetic like the guide rod for example.  There are also some differences in the finish.

92FS has the addition of a slide locking piece of metal to prevent the slide from impacting your face if it fails during firing.  92F does not have this safety feature.  It was developed to solve a problem with mil-spec M-9's failing after a few thousand rounds of use.

M-9 is/or appears to be a 92 that failed quality control. Imagine a 92FS that has an even worse trigger, crappy finish and cheesy grips.  It has drawing numbers on most parts, USGI markings, different type finish and a different serial number series than a civilian weapon.  

I own and have used both quite a bit.  Our issue M-9's all started failing around the same time, they all had about 4000-5000 rounds thru them, the locking blocks cracked causing slide damage requiring the top end to be replaced on two and parts replaced on the rest of them.  The chrome shoots out of the bbl and the triggers are complete shit.  The one positive thing is that until they break, they are really realiable and rarely fail to feed or fire.

The M-9 is the only USGI sidearm I have seen in my career that breaks this often.  Every combat shooting qualification, match or training session there is always one gun that breaks on the firing line.  ALWAYS

I just returned from the Inter-Service championships at Ft. Benning.  The M-9 in its current match quality configuration was the weapon of choice for service pistol matches, the 1911 is still allowed.  Every team had a couple break, one shooter had three fail over the ten days he was there.  I shoot a 1911, it never so much as hiccuped.  They can make that gun accurate and it is easy to shoot since it is only about as powerful as 38 special.  

I'd rather have a 1911 any day of the week and especially if my life depended on a gun that worked.

Quoted: I own and have used both quite a bit.  Our issue M-9's all started failing around the same time, they all had about 4000-5000 rounds thru them, the locking blocks cracked causing slide damage requiring the top end to be replaced on two and parts replaced on the rest of them.  The chrome shoots out of the bbl and the triggers are complete shit.  The one positive thing is that until they break, they are really realiable and rarely fail to feed or fire.

The life of the Beretta sounds about right. My now-closed indoor shooting range had a rental Beretta 92FS, that gun was constantly breaking locking blocks. When the range closed, they had a one gallon glass jar full of broken locking blocks.

OT & BTW: You know what is the most reliable rental gun the range had? Glock 17. The rental Glock 17 went 500,000 rounds before cracking the slide, which was replaced. When the range closed, the Glock 17 had 750,000 on the original factory frame! Actually the number of rounds fired thru the G17 was probably higher because this number is only for ammo that was bought from the range. The owner also knows that people often smuggle in ammo from the outside, so the count is probably a lot higher.

sitting iniraq right now with one on my hip- the other posters are correct in some respects- the military verson has a chrome bore and steel guide rod- the civilian versions don't- not sure on the m9 commemraitve.
the f was supposed to stand for "final" as in the version adopted by the military, the s stands for safety which is the enlarged hammer pin which interfaces with a groove on the bottom of the slide on the left to "capture " the slide if it cracked thru to keep it from flying off the back of the frame.;

Quoted: ... M-9 is/or appears to be a 92 that failed quality control. Imagine a 92FS that has an even worse trigger, crappy finish and cheesy grips.  It has drawing numbers on most parts, USGI markings, different type finish and a different serial number series than a civilian weapon.  ...

You're dead on the money with that one.

My civie 92FS outperforms every issue M9 I have carried by a long shot.  We had a batch in Korea whose barrels would rust just by looking at them.  I have had my 92FS at my side for days when camping in rainy weather and never had a rust problem.  Fortunately, it is very dry in this part of the world.

Beretta really got over on the US .mil with those things.

I think the only difference is the name. M9 is just the military designation for the 92FS.

I'm pretty sure nothing. The M-9 is the military designation, 92 FS is beretta's name for it.
The FS stands for "Fixed Sights" I'm told. I didn't know that till a few years ago.
The M-9's we have in our armoury are pretty much identical to my civilian marketed berettas.
(except mine have WAAAAAY fewer rounds through them!)

Thanks

I figured there wasn't much difference (if any).

CRC

Quoted: I'm pretty sure nothing. The M-9 is the military designation, 92 FS is beretta's name for it. The FS stands for "Fixed Sights" I'm told.

if the "FS" stands for "Fixed Sights," Then what does the F in 92F stand for? the 92F came before the 92FS

"Frame and Safety" is what I heard.

Frame fix, Safety modification for lefties

Having owned BOTH, in the best of barfcom tradition....

The difference is the M9 has all of the required .mil markings, including drawing numbers on each of the components.  Also, the rear sight is different (M92 is a 3 dot, M9 is a two dot).  The M9 also has a metal trigger, where the M92 has a plastic one.

The differences between the M9 and the 92FS are:
- The markings that are stamped into various parts.

- The rear sight, like Nationwide mentioned.  The rear sight is actually the same part on both of them, but on teh FS they paint in the white dots on either side of the slot while on the M9 they paint in the are below the slot.  Look carefully at either rear sight and you'll see the depressions in teh material that would be painted in on the other version.

- All pistols are accuracy tested in a ransom rest before leaving the factory.  M9s are tested at 50m and FS pistols are tested at 25m.

- Over the past few years Beretta has started using some polymer parts in the FS, such as the guide rod.  I don't know if they are using them on the M9s or not.  My FS was purchased in teh late 90s and it has nothing plastic anywhwere on it.

- All pistols in the M9/92/96 product line have barrels that are either stainless steel or chrome lined.  All stainless finish pistols have a stainless barrel.  The Vertec pistols all have stainless barrels with a black finish on the outside.  All other 92s have a chrome lined barrel with a matte blued finish on the outside.

Quoted: ... - Over the past few years Beretta has started using some polymer parts in the FS, such as the guide rod.  I don't know if they are using them on the M9s or not.  My FS was purchased in teh late 90s and it has nothing plastic anywhwere on it. ...

I was wondering about that, since my 92FS has the same steel guide rod and trigger as every M9 I've had.  Of course, I bought it back in 1996.

Newer 92FS Berettas have a much stronger locking block, so breakage really isn't an issue. The military would do well to upgrade their M9s with the latest locking blocks, slides (if they aren't 92FS style already), and of course use factory Beretta mags.

Also, the early M9s were made in Italy, and their steel is of questionable strength. This is probably another reason why you don't hear of problems with civilian guns versus the M9.

I can confirm that my recent production 92FS does indeed have a chrome lined bore.  (just bought it last month) I'm fairly certain all past production NON STAINLESS 92 barrels are chrome lined.

The plastic parts are as follows:

Left side safety lever
Guide Rod
Mainspring Housing
Lanyard attachment

The trigger is plastic coated, but a magnet reveals there is some ferrous metal on the inside.

HTH

Quoted: Newer 92FS Berettas have a much stronger locking block, so breakage really isn't an issue. The military would do well to upgrade their M9s with the latest locking blocks, slides (if they aren't 92FS style already), and of course use factory Beretta mags.

I believe they were all upgraded from F to FS years ago.  

DOD recently ordered a fairly large number of new M9s, including M9A1s with light rails for the Corps.

I have not looked at a new 92FS in several months.But the last one I looked at did have a chromed bore with a plastic coated trigger and decock lever.The finish on the slide and barrel was different than my Italian made 92.Thats all I noticed.
My trusty ole 1990 model 92FS has the white slash in the center of the rear sight,chromed bore and the only plastic on the pistol is the grips.
It also has well over  5,000 rounds through it,most of which was put down range in my LEO days as it was my service weapon.Still running the original locking block and two piece steel guide rod too.No problems with the chrome in the bore so far.Only thing Ive done to it is replace recoil springs,and there have been a few through it,clean it and keep it lubed.
Im still putting over 100 rounds a week through it.The thing just keeps eating.
Its 100% reliable.
Best money Iver ever spent on a pistol.
I hated to see Beretta start using alot of polymer parts.Although Im not sure its a really bad thing considering the parts listed.Guide rod would have to go though.

Thanks for all the info.

CRC

The improved locking blocks have a radious cut at the inside corner of the lugs where the old ones cracked . When U order a block thru the supply system now days U get the new improved block.
My personal 92fs has the new block and hasn't broken yet after a few k's of M882, my M9 cracked it's block after only <3k rounds.

I bought my 92FS in spring/summer 2001. The only plastic are the grips (which I promptly replaced w/ Hogue). I saw a couple of M9's in a shop the next year, the differences I can remember were M9 markings on the slide/frame, finish was not as nice (looked & felt like parkerizing), came w/ 2 15rd (pre-ban at the time) mags, and the guide rod was plastic.

A word on my Beretta: It's the first gun I bought, I'd estimate it has fired ~ 10,000 rounds, and has never malfunctioned (unless you count the shitty alum-cased russian Silver Bear ammo I tried to feed it once - 2 rounds from the first box jammed, so I gave the other box away). If I let it get really dirty, it will sometimes fail to go completely into battery on the first round of a mag (spring pressure only, a tap on the rear of the slide finishes the job). I picked up a copy of the military TM for it and have detail-stripped it for cleaning 3 times, but have never replaced any parts (not springs, not pins, nothing) although I know I should. I love that gun.

--cfors

I saw where the designation F stands for Fellers, Chuck Fellers a SEAL in the 80's who gave suggestions on how to better the gun.

BTW, I have one of these beauties, a 92fs and love it.

I always thought FS = Fixed Sight

Is the M9A1 thae same as a Vertec since they both have the rail mount

As far as I can tell, yes. The M9A1 is just the military version, most of them are going to the Corps. hug.gif

I have a 92F, '89 build date from what I can find.  I emailed beretta, we'll see what they say about the locking block, etc.

Quoted: Is the M9A1 thae same as a Vertec since they both have the rail mount

I haven't seen a definitive answer, but I thought they were a basic FS with the light rail.  No vertec sized grip and no dovetailed front sight.

Quoted: I always thought FS = Fixed Sight

Pretty much all Berettas have fixed sights so the FS wouldn't really mean anything.

Slide mounted Decocker-Safety = S Designation

Earlier models were mounted on the Frame

F = Final Version as submitted in Armed Services Trials

The folks at Beretta will verification these descriptors. CW