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Posted: 5/2/2019 8:40:56 PM EDT
[#1]
My email to CHPW; (cut and pasted, excuse the format)
Message: Hello guys, I\'d like to return my V3 RMR mounting plate order number4778. Do I need a return number? Lot\'s of potential here, but as is it does not fill the gap around the RMR mechanically, only cosmetically. Screws are downsized meaning all that play (actually increased over Glock plate) is being absorbed by like #4\'s, not cool . Please make a V4! Steel, tight, stay with #6 screws! The RMR should lock up tight just slipping your plate into the slide. Lot\'s of people waiting for this! Thanks Their answer; (italics added to my fav part) Send your plate back and we'll issue you a refund minus the 20% restocking fee. Our design is superior to anything on the market now or in the past. Our design is based on sound mechanical engineering principles and design, along with over 100k rounds of Federal, State and Local Law Enforement agency testing. It's obvious that your opinion is not and that is why it is just an opinion. Buck Buck Holly C&H Precision W |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 9:09:13 PM EDT
[#2]
I am going to be in the MRDS game sooner than later and have been oogling a G19.5 MOS, I'm not sure this thread has helped or hurt my in-decision into the foray of optics mounted handgun systems.
I am in love with our recent adaptation of Trijicon XR sights and I'm sure I'll love the RMR...eventually. Please carry on. 
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Posted: 5/2/2019 9:16:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am going to be in the MRDS game sooner than later and have been oogling a G19.5 MOS, I'm not sure this thread has helped or hurt my in-decision into the foray of optics mounted handgun systems. I am in love with our recent adaptation of Trijicon XR sights and I'm sure I'll love the RMR...eventually. Please carry on. |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 10:04:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My email to CHPW; (cut and pasted, excuse the format) Message: Hello guys, I\'d like to return my V3 RMR mounting plate order number4778. Do I need a return number? Lot\'s of potential here, but as is it does not fill the gap around the RMR mechanically, only cosmetically. Screws are downsized meaning all that play (actually increased over Glock plate) is being absorbed by like #4\'s, not cool . Please make a V4! Steel, tight, stay with #6 screws! The RMR should lock up tight just slipping your plate into the slide. Lot\'s of people waiting for this! Thanks Their answer; (italics added to my fav part) Send your plate back and we'll issue you a refund minus the 20% restocking fee. Our design is superior to anything on the market now or in the past. Our design is based on sound mechanical engineering principles and design, along with over 100k rounds of Federal, State and Local Law Enforement agency testing. It's obvious that your opinion is not and that is why it is just an opinion. Buck Buck Holly C&H Precision W |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 10:07:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My email to CHPW; (cut and pasted, excuse the format) Message: Hello guys, I\'d like to return my V3 RMR mounting plate order number4778. Do I need a return number? Lot\'s of potential here, but as is it does not fill the gap around the RMR mechanically, only cosmetically. Screws are downsized meaning all that play (actually increased over Glock plate) is being absorbed by like #4\'s, not cool . Please make a V4! Steel, tight, stay with #6 screws! The RMR should lock up tight just slipping your plate into the slide. Lot\'s of people waiting for this! Thanks Their answer; (italics added to my fav part) Send your plate back and we'll issue you a refund minus the 20% restocking fee. Our design is superior to anything on the market now or in the past. Our design is based on sound mechanical engineering principles and design, along with over 100k rounds of Federal, State and Local Law Enforement agency testing. It's obvious that your opinion is not and that is why it is just an opinion. Buck Buck Holly C&H Precision W Saw this response as I am literally halfway through my email that is going to Buck - found his email address on my order. I am going a littler softer in my email asking what the issue is if I cannot tighten down my holosun on the plate and my guess that the posts are a hair too long. At least I know what kind of response to expect. |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 10:17:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My email to CHPW; (cut and pasted, excuse the format) Message: Hello guys, I\'d like to return my V3 RMR mounting plate order number4778. Do I need a return number? Lot\'s of potential here, but as is it does not fill the gap around the RMR mechanically, only cosmetically. Screws are downsized meaning all that play (actually increased over Glock plate) is being absorbed by like #4\'s, not cool . Please make a V4! Steel, tight, stay with #6 screws! The RMR should lock up tight just slipping your plate into the slide. Lot\'s of people waiting for this! Thanks Their answer; (italics added to my fav part) Send your plate back and we'll issue you a refund minus the 20% restocking fee. Our design is superior to anything on the market now or in the past. Our design is based on sound mechanical engineering principles and design, along with over 100k rounds of Federal, State and Local Law Enforement agency testing. It's obvious that your opinion is not and that is why it is just an opinion. Buck Buck Holly C&H Precision W |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 10:55:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Superior design my ass. Anyone can claim what they want but without documented proof it’s only BS. Use the cheddar cheese of the gun world (6061) cause it's easy to machine; Check. Reduce the front lugs from the OEM full round to half round; Check. "Fill the gap" of the OEM plate while somehow making more play; Check Use the smallest screws available without breaking out the sunglass repair kit; Check Break the "Mark Larue Rule" (If ur gonna be gruff to people make sure your products are awesome); Check Someone will do this right, but it won't come out of this shop. |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 11:03:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Disregard the use of steel for a thin, stressed part; Check Use the cheddar cheese of the gun world (6061) cause it's easy to machine; Check. Reduce the front lugs from the OEM full round to half round; Check. "Fill the gap" of the OEM plate while somehow making more play; Check Use the smallest screws available without breaking out the sunglass repair kit; Check Break the "Mark Larue Rule" (If ur gonna be gruff to people make sure your products are awesome); Check Someone will do this right, but it won't come out of this shop. |
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Posted: 5/2/2019 11:34:31 PM EDT
[#9]
Its 6061?? Lol. If you're going to make something like this from aluminum, at least use 7075. It actually machines better than 6061 and leaves a nicer surface finish. Material cost for material that small is marginally higher - and 7075 is nearly twice as strong as 6061.
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Posted: 5/2/2019 11:56:07 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100% agree My friend got a reply in less than 12 hours from the same email when he wrote in about his broken plate. I'm tempted to just mail it back and let them deal with it. |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 1:36:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Man! After reading all the info on the C&H plate, I think I'm going to wait and see what someone else comes up with.
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Posted: 5/3/2019 5:24:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
following their written return policy I'm still two emails in and multiple days with no contact from them about my return. My friend got a reply in less than 12 hours from the same email when he wrote in about his broken plate. I'm tempted to just mail it back and let them deal with it. I emailed this dude before my plate shipped looking for it because I thought I didn't get my confirmation email. I did, but he never mailed back. Ended up in the junk folder. I then called 2 days later and a lady answered the phone. Very nice, but I doubt you'd get much out of them if you have an actual issue. It's cosmetically nice, but that's about it. Glad I put my original mos plate and screws in a nice safe place to use again! |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 7:37:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its 6061?? Lol. If you're going to make something like this from aluminum, at least use 7075. It actually machines better than 6061 and leaves a nicer surface finish. Material cost for material that small is marginally higher - and 7075 is nearly twice as strong as 6061. |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 8:55:11 AM EDT
[#14]
@Bruce
^^^ THIS! I need two of them! Yeah, I think if you did something similar to the quality of the B&T ACRO plate, I mean, who wouldn't buy it? I mean I'm sure you've paid attention, GLOCK is making most of their pistols MOS models now. It's the wave of the future for MIL/LE too. I know several people who work as LE and they only have two choices for red dot pistols, Doug at ATEi or GLOCK MOS models and a few departments have said MOS + Trijicon RMR Type 2 only. If someone could offer them steel plate, they would buy it! |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 9:03:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why don’t you guys throw us a bone and do one of these right. I’m sure you won’t loose money. I have 2 milled Glocks and 1 mos. I agree that milling is superior but I’d love to get a better/nicer plate for my mos and others in this thread seem to agree. I myself would have no problem paying 100$ for a quality part, hell I ordered the C&H plate and when it showed up and I realized that it was made of aluminum it literally went straight into the trash and chocked it up as a loss. I did send them an email about making one of steel and received the same type of BS email stating the superiority of their part as it is. You guys (Primary Machine) have been one of the top milling shops for a while and I would think you know exactly what and how to make it happen. I’m waiting for the bone now. |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 10:01:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...but it's not pushing it or a stretch... Spend time around a lot of competition guys...it's a pretty well accepted fact among them. I wouldn't risk our reputation by spewing BS that I pulled out of thin air. Guys out in the field shooting 30K+ rounds a year on MRDS equipped guns are reporting what I'm saying. That's not how we've built Primary Machine up to what it is now and we never will. You don't have to accept it. I'm ok with that. ;) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Come on now. That’s pushing it. No way it makes any difference. There isn’t little to no difference in movement and the optics are mounted the same. That’s a stretch just to make slides cuts seem the better way to go. Which id agree they may be better in some ways but I don’t think that is one of them. Spend time around a lot of competition guys...it's a pretty well accepted fact among them. I wouldn't risk our reputation by spewing BS that I pulled out of thin air. Guys out in the field shooting 30K+ rounds a year on MRDS equipped guns are reporting what I'm saying. That's not how we've built Primary Machine up to what it is now and we never will. You don't have to accept it. I'm ok with that. ;) |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 10:13:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Competition may say that. Could also be confirmation bias since they were likely earlier adopters of mrds and had their slides milled. 30k rounds gives an awful lot of variables to just determine, oh must have been how it was mounted and nothing else during that time, or just manufacture defect anomaly. 
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Posted: 5/3/2019 11:34:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Been following this thread for a while since I picked up a Gen 5 19 MOS at a good deal. I took a chance and ordered the CHPWS plate for my DPP and that was a mistake. Was getting ready for the day, went to pick up my holster and put it on and it slipped. Whole thing landed right on the DPP and it snapped off. The posts that it screws into on the plate sheared right off. On top of that my DPP is jacked up and I can make the dot move by just hitting it with the palm of my hand. Time to go back to the standard MOS plates and an RMR I guess. What a fucking start to the day.
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Posted: 5/3/2019 12:07:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been following this thread for a while since I picked up a Gen 5 19 MOS at a good deal. I took a chance and ordered the CHPWS plate for my DPP and that was a mistake. Was getting ready for the day, went to pick up my holster and put it on and it slipped. Whole thing landed right on the DPP and it snapped off. The posts that it screws into on the plate sheared right off. On top of that my DPP is jacked up and I can make the dot move by just hitting it with the palm of my hand. Time to go back to the standard MOS plates and an RMR I guess. What a fucking start to the day. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275664/IMG_1142-932782.jpg |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 12:07:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been following this thread for a while since I picked up a Gen 5 19 MOS at a good deal. I took a chance and ordered the CHPWS plate for my DPP and that was a mistake. Was getting ready for the day, went to pick up my holster and put it on and it slipped. Whole thing landed right on the DPP and it snapped off. The posts that it screws into on the plate sheared right off. On top of that my DPP is jacked up and I can make the dot move by just hitting it with the palm of my hand. Time to go back to the standard MOS plates and an RMR I guess. What a fucking start to the day. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275664/IMG_1142-932782.jpg |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 1:02:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Our design is superior to anything on the market now or in the past. Our design is based on sound mechanical engineering principles and design, along with over 100k rounds of Federal, State and Local Law Enforement agency testing" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Been following this thread for a while since I picked up a Gen 5 19 MOS at a good deal. I took a chance and ordered the CHPWS plate for my DPP and that was a mistake. Was getting ready for the day, went to pick up my holster and put it on and it slipped. Whole thing landed right on the DPP and it snapped off. The posts that it screws into on the plate sheared right off. On top of that my DPP is jacked up and I can make the dot move by just hitting it with the palm of my hand. Time to go back to the standard MOS plates and an RMR I guess. What a fucking start to the day. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275664/IMG_1142-932782.jpg |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 1:35:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bummer... I know it doesn't help but Leupold's warranty is great. Just mail it in with a letter explaining what happened and they will fix/ replace no questions. No need for a RMA. |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 2:46:09 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm seriously thinking about trading my GLOCK 19 Gen5 MOS slide for a GLOCK 45 slide assembly and having JagerWerks machine it.
I don't even care about matching serials, I just want the standard length 19 Gen5 MOS frame, front cocking serrations with an RMR. JW did beautiful work on my 19X! I took my RMR in with me and they cut like EXACT, zero play even with the screws out, it like clicks into place like I'm putting Lego's together. |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 3:10:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My email to CHPW; (cut and pasted, excuse the format) Message: Hello guys, I\'d like to return my V3 RMR mounting plate order number4778. Do I need a return number? Lot\'s of potential here, but as is it does not fill the gap around the RMR mechanically, only cosmetically. Screws are downsized meaning all that play (actually increased over Glock plate) is being absorbed by like #4\'s, not cool . Please make a V4! Steel, tight, stay with #6 screws! The RMR should lock up tight just slipping your plate into the slide. Lot\'s of people waiting for this! Thanks Their answer; (italics added to my fav part) Send your plate back and we'll issue you a refund minus the 20% restocking fee. Our design is superior to anything on the market now or in the past. Our design is based on sound mechanical engineering principles and design, along with over 100k rounds of Federal, State and Local Law Enforement agency testing. It's obvious that your opinion is not and that is why it is just an opinion. Buck Buck Holly C&H Precision W |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 3:53:16 PM EDT
[#25]
I made a post locally that I would trade a GLOCK 19 Gen5 MOS slide assembly for a standard GLOCK 45 slide assembly. I got 3 offers for that trade in like 20 minutes.
I might just do it and have JagerWerks machine the cut. They are down the street from where I work, the last time I took them a slide they did it while I waited because it only takes like 15 minutes for a basic cut. Hmmm |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 4:18:28 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, it'll be going in Monday for them to take care of. That's one of the reasons I went with the DPP as I've dealt with Leupold before on an issue and they made it right without any hassle. I'm sure others are the same way, just nice to have some previous experience. |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 4:20:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BHUT MUH SOUPEERIOAR DEEZINE!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 5/3/2019 4:23:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Bruce ^^^ THIS! I need two of them! Yeah, I think if you did something similar to the quality of the B&T ACRO plate, I mean, who wouldn't buy it? I mean I'm sure you've paid attention, GLOCK is making most of their pistols MOS models now. It's the wave of the future for MIL/LE too. I know several people who work as LE and they only have two choices for red dot pistols, Doug at ATEi or GLOCK MOS models and a few departments have said MOS + Trijicon RMR Type 2 only. If someone could offer them steel plate, they would buy it! If your so busy trying to keep up, might be time to invest in another CNC machine.
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Posted: 5/4/2019 8:33:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Hopefully someone sees this thread and can/will produce what we want. As for C&H and their 100k test by high speed 300 pound gorilla I think this thread proved their bull shit to be just that.
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Posted: 5/4/2019 10:07:46 AM EDT
[#30]
I noticed in another thread that USSocom uses the Glock 19 mos system. CD says he hasn’t seen mount related failures. I’m assuming they are using the Trijicon mounting kit.
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Posted: 5/4/2019 1:12:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been following this thread for a while since I picked up a Gen 5 19 MOS at a good deal. I took a chance and ordered the CHPWS plate for my DPP and that was a mistake. Was getting ready for the day, went to pick up my holster and put it on and it slipped. Whole thing landed right on the DPP and it snapped off. The posts that it screws into on the plate sheared right off. On top of that my DPP is jacked up and I can make the dot move by just hitting it with the palm of my hand. Time to go back to the standard MOS plates and an RMR I guess. What a fucking start to the day. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/275664/IMG_1142-932782.jpg He finally responded to my second email regarding a return and stated I can send it back for a 20% restocking fee. 
I want it gone. It'll be heading back to him today. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 2:19:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I noticed in another thread that USSocom uses the Glock 19 mos system. CD says he hasn’t seen mount related failures. I’m assuming they are using the Trijicon mounting kit. I referred one of my guys from the firearms unit to the CH plate. They have one to T & E. Well get to the bottom of this. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 3:00:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't understand how this guy can claim all this training and hard use and yet these screws aren't even long enough to thread into the plate. It seems destined to fail. He finally responded to my second email regarding a return and stated I can send it back for a 20% restocking fee.
I want it gone. It'll be heading back to him today. I could see charging 20% if people were just returning them to return them but people are requesting returns based on others failures and in the cases of these failures it sees to be related to a shit design and poor quality choice of materials. I was ALL set to buy one of these and based on the failures you guys have had with the DP version, I don't even want to chance it with the RMR version and the fact he is being shitty about his responses, hard pass. I'll wait until we can talk Bruce into making one OR we can get another shop onboard. I think it's a mistake not to make this a priority IF you have a shop that perfect what C&H tried to do out of steel. Seems like the MOS platform is going mainstream, CBP just got those GLOCK 47 MOS pistols. The GLOCK 45 MOS just came out, this seems to be the future for GLOCK. A lot of police agencies will not allow slide cuts from anyone other than ATEi or using the factory MOS system. Wonder if Agency Arms would make a non-AOS MOS plate? They already HAVE them for their AOS system but something that drops in like the C&H but with the AOS quality would be GREAT! I've never heard of an AOS plate shearing off its lugs. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 3:03:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. If the right screws are being used and tightened down. I referred one of my guys from the firearms unit to the CH plate. They have one to T & E. Well get to the bottom of this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I noticed in another thread that USSocom uses the Glock 19 mos system. CD says he hasn’t seen mount related failures. I’m assuming they are using the Trijicon mounting kit. I referred one of my guys from the firearms unit to the CH plate. They have one to T & E. Well get to the bottom of this. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 3:56:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I purchased a ch plate as well as the Trijicon kit for mounting the rmr HRS I got. I pick the new 19.5mos up on Monday. Can't wait to try it out. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 4:13:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I purchased a ch plate as well as the Trijicon kit for mounting the rmr HRS I got. I pick the new 19.5mos up on Monday. Can’t wait to try it out. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 5:11:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you have the C&H plate you do NOT use the trijicon sealing plate. That’s ONLY if you’re using the MOS mounting plate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I purchased a ch plate as well as the Trijicon kit for mounting the rmr HRS I got. I pick the new 19.5mos up on Monday. Can’t wait to try it out.
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Posted: 5/4/2019 7:34:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Your supposed to use the sealing plate when you mount it on anything.
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Posted: 5/4/2019 9:35:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your supposed to use the sealing plate when you mount it on anything. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 10:00:59 PM EDT
[#40]
You may have me on that one but why would I read the instructions when I realized that I received a turd and wasn’t going to use it. My trash can was the best place to install it
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Posted: 5/4/2019 10:34:03 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. The instructions for the CH Precision plate specifically say not to use it. Maybe you'd have noticed that had you not thrown a $60 part in the trash can. The only reason it's needed for the MOS plate is because the slide is to narrow to get a seal on the RMR's O-ring. |
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Posted: 5/4/2019 11:29:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And all the embossing Glock puts on the plate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Wrong. The instructions for the CH Precision plate specifically say not to use it. Maybe you'd have noticed that had you not thrown a $60 part in the trash can. The only reason it's needed for the MOS plate is because the slide is to narrow to get a seal on the RMR's O-ring. There's a noticeable step where the endmill used to cut some features wasn't set to the same depth as others (or the tool length wasn't set right, either way it's lazy/poor work). Point being I'm not sure how sealed it is and whether I trust it to seal my $450 optic. Especially since if it didn't, I seriously doubt C&H would admit fault. It also didn't fit the first RMR I tried to install, but did fit the second (my RM01 is ~0.005" longer than my RM06). I like how it fits, but similar to others I'm not thrilled with the material or the screws. Like I said, I'm trying to decide whether to keep it or eat the $20 returning it would cost and go back to the Trijicon kit. |
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Posted: 5/5/2019 8:44:42 AM EDT
[#43]
I got mine on Thursday. Not sure I’m going to use it. I agree with others, it should be steal.
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Posted: 5/5/2019 1:27:48 PM EDT
[#44]
I also just sent an email requesting to return the plate I purchased. I'll gladly eat the 20%. The common failure of the mount is something I can't have on a firearm I carry for defense or duty. I was professional regarding my request, but I have no doubt the concerns won't be addressed.
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Posted: 5/5/2019 8:21:34 PM EDT
[#45]
MRDS is really catching on. We're at the cross roads similar to when the AR15 weapon system started wearing 100 mile per hour tape and an aimpoint/tasco red dot (Sontay thru the Stans/Iraq). Look at ARs now from just the military alone. I should have invested in Apple stock...
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Posted: 5/5/2019 9:03:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Well, here was the reply i received from Buck regarding the failure issues and return:
"Every known case of failure has been investigated and in each case it has been determined that the posts were sheared off due to vertical force not lateral force (improper installation). I appreciate your feedback and suggestions but we can't be there to ensure each plate is mounted properly. We have made several new improvements over the past week to the V3 Delta Point Pro to ensure that even those that can't read instructions will have a hard time installing it incorrectly. As for making it from steel with 6-40 screws, that isn't needed from an engineering standpoint and creates a whole other set of issues." I have sent a follow up inquiring about the "set of issues" this would create. I'm interested to see the response. It seems as though he is well aware of the issues with the DPP plate and has "made improvements" but I'm wondering if anyone with the RMR plate has had any significant shearing issues? I am going to send my slide to Agency for the AOS treatment shortly, but wanted to use this as a stop gap. I'm now really questioning the thought process on this particular mount. |
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Posted: 5/5/2019 9:17:12 PM EDT
[#47]
And more....
"I could write a thesis on why aluminum is better than steel in this case. If steel was the answer, the RMR body would be made of steel and the polymer frame pistol you're mounting it to would be a 1911. Material science has come a long way and in this case, aluminum is just as good or better for many reasons. As for the 6-40 screws - The same answer as to why the OEM plates have such high failure rates - you never get the proper thread engagement without threaded posts and if you run a 6-40 screw into a post that fits into an RMR you don't have a post. Again, If your anonymous guys are having issues, we have not been made aware of it so I can't comment on their issues and if they are having issues, I can't imagine why they'd keep silent about it and let you carry their water for them." Seems as though the product can have NO FLAWS. It's all the end users. Clearly. |
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Posted: 5/5/2019 9:19:46 PM EDT
[#48]
That guy sounds like a real ass. Even if his products were good I'd take a hard pass
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Posted: 5/5/2019 9:38:00 PM EDT
[#49]
What a scam artist and not a very good one.
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Posted: 5/5/2019 10:26:29 PM EDT
[#50]
I really wish someone that really knows what they are doing would produce these.
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