They wanted to arrest me but after 2 1/2 hours of being detained they let me go. They said my draco pistol was a rifle and I had cut off the stock. They said they called the ATF and the ATF told them it was a SBR and then they wanted to see my form 1. They said they finally got in touch with the manufacturer who told them it was a pistol. I wasn't a party to their conversations except for over hearing one cop who said, "he cut off the stock" about 4-5 times into his phone.

How do local cops even get in touch with the manufacturer of firearms on a Sunday night?

Do you guys carry some type of proof your AK or AR pistol is actually a pistol? If so how is that proof obtained?

They never heard of Google?

Wow this is very interesting.  Its shit like this that makes me really nervous.  Asshat officers that have no idea what their doing.

Seriously, how hard is it to Google "Draco pistol"?



 

Background story?

Where were you carrying, etc.

One of the officers filled out the citation which said arrest at the top and I looked at the charge. I told him the charge of carrying a rifle was ridiculous because it was a pistol. I refused to sign and asked to speak with his sgt.

WOW, what a crazy bunch of bullshit.

I went to the Tennessee State Radnor Lake State Park this afternoon to take in some nature and get some exercise. I dressed in boots, blue jeans, t-shirt, vest, and an old military issue gore-tex woodland camo jacket. I carried my new Romanian Draco AK pistol loaded with 31 123 grain FMJ ammunition from Walmart. I arrived at approximately 3:30 pm and with the pistol slung on my back I started my walk. It was mostly uneventful. I saw no deer and passed maybe 30 hikers. As I reached the end of the trail I made sure no one was close by and shifted the ak-47 pistol to the front of my body. I reached the end of the trail and turned onto the roadway where I saw the first ranger of the day. He asked me if it was an airsoft and I said no it was an AK-47 type pistol. He looked at me strangely and asked to see my permit. I showed my Tennessee handgun carry permit. He asked where I parked and I told him. He said I could keep walking I kept walking as he called someone. By the time I reached my car the ranger was no where in sight as I walk quickly. However, another ranger vehicle pulled in the parking lot and a ranger jumped out with a shotgun pointed at me and yelled at me to stay still and put the weapon on the ground. After I put the weapon down he told me to move away which I did. He then told me to put my face on the ground and my arms on my head. I complied. I think he had a gun trained on me the whole time, but I couldn’t see. He searched me quickly and put my AK into the truck. This particular ranger has seen me before and has asked to see my TN handgun carry permit. He asked to see the permit again and asked for my driver license. I told him I would not give him my license, but he could see the permit.
   
Three Nashville metro cop cars showed up pretty quickly. They talked among themselves for about an hour and then a cop pulled out a citation for arrest. It said I was being arrested for 39-17-1311 unlawful possession of a weapon. He asked me to sign and I told him I wanted to speak with his supervisor. He said okay, but that it would take a long time and he just wanted to cite and release me for my convenience (yeah right). I asked what part of 39-17-1311 I violated he said I couldn’t carry a rifle. I told him my firearm was classified as a pistol. It has no stock and never had a stock. I also pointed out that it has an 11.5” barrel with complies with the length of a handgun definition in Tennessee. He said it looks like I had cut the stock off  and another said they had never heard of a 7.62x39 handgun. It took about another ½ hour for the sergeant to show up. In the meantime one of the original cops left, another park ranger came and left and two more cops showed up. The sergeant showed and I tried to explain that the firearm was a handgun. I also told him if they were going to arrest me to just take me in front of the magistrate right away. They spent another ½ hour asking me if I had a form 1, that the ATF classifies my pistol as a rifle, and they had never seen an AK pistol before. Finally they told me they had gotten in touch with the manufacturer and the manufacturer said it indeed was a pistol. I highly doubt that, but that is what they told me. They released the handcuffs, and gave me back my magazine, ammo, and pistol.
   
I think they handled it as well as could be expected. I felt the cop who was trying to charge me with a violation of 39-17-1311 had no basis for the charge.


Radnor Lake rules


Tennessee State Code


Picture of park sign


Carrying handguns in State Parks is legal with a handgun carry permit regardless of what the sign says.

see New Law public Chapter 428

"Because signage prohibiting the possessing of firearms while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, or instrumentality thereof, and posted pursuant to § 39-17-1311, prior to July 1, 2009, remains necessary for visitors who are not authorized to carry a firearm pursuant to subsection (b), the department shall not replace or change any existing signs that prohibit firearms or erect any new signs at existing state areas relative to firearms. However, the department may replace or repair signs that have been damaged or are scheduled for replacement in accordance with the park’s regular replacement schedule."

Firearm was a romanian draco ak-47 type pistol with a 30 round magazine and one round in the chamber. I t was on an urban ert two point sling.

orange tip?

And it has a day-glo orange muzzle. Why?

As a former police officer, in TN, it was my understanding that the local LEO don't have jurisdiction over FED charges.  And the very most they could seize the gun and refer it to the proper authorities.  I guess you didn't respect their authority enough.  

Now, why is that muzzle device painted orange?  Are you trying to make it look airsoft?

Why does it have a glow tip on it?

Sucks that you got hassled, but why would you carry that piece?  The wording of the law is fairly broad, in that you may carry any handgun, but why draw attention to yourself?  

It's shit like this that give HCP holders a bad name.  Get a conventional handgun...Glock, Springfield, Colt, S&W, etc and carry on.  Carrying this piece will only lead to more of the same action you got this afternoon.

I thought this was addressed already in the draco thread about posting pics of your airsoft look alike?

Dude... are you fucking serious?

You OCed a fucking DRACO at Radnor Lake and didn't expect to raise suspicion?

That's the fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life.

Play stupid games...

We already blasted him about the stupid orange tip in the Draco thread, his response:

Quoted:





So, it's okay for airsoft to make a clone of an AK, but it isn't okay for me to make a clone of an airsoft?

Basically he just goes around looking for trouble, and he found it. Unless, of course the whole story is bullshit.




 

Radnor Lake isn't a gun free zone. I have the right to carry any handgun or multiple handguns I want while at that State Park.

can anyone link the draco thread?

So.... what we've really learned here is: The legend of the "low post count troll" is true!

So your clearly avoiding the question of why would you make a real gun have an identifying mark that gives people the indication that a gun is fake?  That is a horrible horrible and stupid idea...  That just spells disaster.

Pick one...



http://www.google.com/search?q=kwikrnu+draco+ak+pistol&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF

Draco Thread

I can't believe this kid, first you paint your thread protector orange which is the dumbest shit one could do or even think of

Second of all you are going to open carry a Draco, ur a smart one

there are things you can legally do but sometimes, judgement and logic should play into that.....  if you carry something like that into a park, don't be surprised if someone asks a question about it or is even slightly confused.  me, being a gun advocate and a chl holder would probably do a double take on someone with a draco walking through a park....  in fact, those are typically the people I watch out for.

Starts around this page:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=121751&page=24

OP, just because you can do something, doesn't mean that you should. I had some sympathy for you until I saw the pic of your pistol..which I noticed you edited out fairly quick.
You invited the man into your life. I have to agree that you are making things harder on the people who CCW with common sense.
You played a stupid game and lucked out without the stupid prize..this time.

Mad cause you got your thread just like this one locked on Glock Talk?

Please go troll on the Brady site.

If it types like a troll

If it answers like a troll

IT'S A TROLL

Man this kid is posting his BS all over the place isn't he..... Shouldn't he be on an airsoft forum....

They need to see the "see the place where I cut off the stock?  No? There, genius, it's a pistol!" people

Then we really need to start getting ticked.

Guess you need to learn the difference between a handgun and a rifle caliber pistol then.

I asked a specific valid question. There are many people with AK pistols, AR pistols, Kel-Tec PLR-16 pistols and Sig 556 pistols. How do the cops know these are pistols? That was the issue with my near arrest. So, what is the solution to proving these pistols are not short barreled rifles?

Rifle caliber pistols are not illegal.

It's not a SBR if it does not have a stock on it, although the barrel length of 10.5" with a stock on it would be an SBR.

a) I had an equally valid question.



b) To answer your last question: How about "Not misrepresenting them, and yourself, as being airsoft"?

According to a moderator I am not to talk about that. So, why not answer the question I asked in the original post?

You said you can carry any handgun.  Draco's are not hand guns since they are designed to be fired with two hand (fore stock) vs. single handed (I.e glock, 1911...)

No crap! Next time I am detained how do I prove that my pistol is a pistol? They said I sawed the stock off the draco pistol I bought last week.

So, Kel-Tec PLR-16's, Sig556's, and AR pistol are not handguns?
What about a thompson contender?

legal yes, smart no

You prove it by friggin showing it to them, I mean how much common sense does it take to point out that it's a pistol. This is not rocket science...... I mean after all you figured out how to spray paint your thread protector.

there isn't a magical way.  you do what you did this time.  you be respectful, you answer their questions, they'll do what they need to do (like they did this time) and once it's figured out, they'll let you go.  that could be considered a controversial weapon in the eyes of people who aren't avid knowledgeable gun collectors/toters like there are here.  many cops/leo don't have a lot of spare cash to be spending on loads of guns, they using issued guns or the few they can afford so they're not keen on all the 'cool' things out there to be had.  if you're going to carry something like that, you have to be prepared to answer questions about it.  this is where logic comes in.  unless there's a specific reason you need a 7.62 pistol there, i don't see the reason for added alarm from anyone; if you need extra power from something/someone, get yourself a good 10mm and be done with it.

Problem #1: Handgun hunters regularly carry long barreled pistols with a two point sling, just not in a marked no-hunting area.



Problem #2: Try to understand my point of view here. If you are found deliberately misrepresenting how your firearm is perceived, when it wouldn't be illegal, who shouldn't, and wouldn't, be concerned about your veracity when questioning you about the circumstances that brought you and your firearm to a public park?



Likewise, why shouldn't I question your veracity regarding the account of your event?

Bullshit! They are not AOW's.



 

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=492845&highlight=ak

Wow this is the first time i've really wanted to break the CoC with my opinions of the OP.

OP here is a little food for thought:  Your credibility with the cops was zero due to the airsoft imitation asshattery.  If you are going to spray paint the tip of your real gun orange so it looks like a toy, why would the cops believe any claim that you make there after?  Yes, I understand it is not illegal to do so but it certainly is not something most folks would consider reasonable or intelligent to do.

Most police are not schooled on the intricacies of gun laws.
They know the big ones but don't know about the many "how many angels on the head of a firing pin" rulings there are.
Like it or not, if you skirt the line (and yes, AR & AK pistols are skirting the line, most people assume them to be SBRs) expect some hassle.
Prepare for it, and keep some sort of proof around to educate the ignorant.

Just curious, but why were the police talking to you anyway?

ETA: You were carrying an AK pistol as your CCW?
You wanted to be different, you wanted attention, now you got it.

ETA2: You are lucky that you didn't catch a charge for brandishing.
Open carry in a holster is one thing, but an AK pistol slung across your chest?

Trying to be cute isn't going to impress anyone. Try not to be an ass an get a bunch of people pissed off. It's called common sense, you might look into buying some. Looks like you came pretty close tho.

OP, After reading your postings on thehighroad and the Draco thread, you are either a troll or someone who likes the wrong kind of attention. Apparently you don't ccw (what I took from your highroad thread), you open carry. Open Carry had is merits, so I can't argue with you on that count. But OCing a Draco is stupid. You draw attention and honestly make yourself to look like a nut case. Never mind the fact that having it slung across your back is not a great idea. Nevermind the fact that it opens you up for liability if you ever have to use it. Add to the fact that you spray painted the tip orange and you are not only inviting the man into your life but offering him a blow job too. Cops know an orange tip doesn't make it a toy. A cop with a hard on can come up with charges just for that I am sure. I am all for people exercises there rights-with common sense.
You bring to mind the old adage-"Everyone has the right to be stupid...."
Thanks for giving the Brady's and there ilk more ammunition for there struggle against freedom.

Just give up your rights  

I trying to determine the proof I need and where to get said "proof".

They saw that I had an AK 47.

I wasn't carrying an AK as my CCW. There is no CCW in Tennessee.

Open carry is not brandishing. Having a pistol on a sling is not brandishing.