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Posted: 1/8/2006 1:26:35 AM EDT
[#1]
IMO, in a shit-hit-the-fan situation where concealing clothing would jeopardize your life substantially. Walking around with a gun in the open is, to my mind, much more dangerous than concealed. Remember, you become the prime target for any thug with more than a frogs brain. |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 4:35:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Exactly; open carry makes you a target. I never want anyone to know I am carrying a gun until such time as I present it. As far as concealment clothing jeopardizing your life... I suppose it *could* happen, but dude, what kind of situations are you putting yourself in? hinking.gif |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 5:42:37 AM EDT
[#3]
"…makes you a target"???
Hardl! Even a Frog knows that a buzzing noise from above is a meal but if he sees it is coming from a falcon… Thugs don't attack policemen and they don't attack someone openly carrying a firearm! |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 5:58:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Might as well put a big bullseye on your back in most situations. Cops in uniform are an entirely different thing than a citizen or off duty officer all alone...or, even worse, with his family along.
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Posted: 1/8/2006 6:16:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Somebody holding up an establishment, and who is willing to shoot someone to accomplish their mission, is going to look to neutralize anyone they perceive as a threat; carrying openly puts you at the top of their threat list (whether you had any intention of engaging them or not!) Concealment may well buy you the time you need to make a plan, or to decide not to engage at all. |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 7:15:38 AM EDT
[#6]
Makes a lot of sense and I had thought about that too. I was just curious of if there were any situations where it might be better. A lot of times a show of force will keep the peace. Like if you are speeding and see a cop ahead, do you slow down as not to get a ticket, or keep going. Now, what if that same cop is in an undercover car? I guess well never know how many thugs hoping to rob a gas station at knif point, or baseball bat, etc... have chosen not to afetr walking in and seeing someone open carrying. Anyone have any actual statistics on if anyone open carrying has actually been shot before the robby takes place to get them out of the way as a potential threat? Also, I do plan on concealed carry all the time at first, and maybe eventually open carry a little. Mainly because I am from a small town where everybody knows everybody and I just dont want to get 5 ppl ask me why I need it when i walk in to get a gallon of milk.
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Posted: 1/8/2006 11:01:11 AM EDT
[#7]
I sometimes open carry while hiking through the woods. For comfort and quick accessability reasons. However, I always carry concealed in public. No need to draw attention to yourself.
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Posted: 1/8/2006 1:11:38 PM EDT
[#8]
As a police officer in Indiana I would suggest keeping it concealed... It's far better to blend in than stand out as a threat to the bad guys.. AND.. from my experience you will have dozens of people un-familiar with the law calling the police to investigate... YOU.. !! A bad idea and a time consuming one too... Keep it covered up and you'll be happier and more effective if you really need it..!!
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Posted: 1/8/2006 3:44:10 PM EDT
[#9]
I don't put myself in those types of situations, but that is literally the only time I can think of that one is better served by open carry. Short of end-of-the-world situations, I can think of no real reason. I take that back, I do carry openly while hunting. 
If you honestly believe that, I think your credibilty is pretty much shot. 
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Posted: 1/8/2006 6:47:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Only for the reason that some in Virginia carry openly. If your state doesn't allow concealed carry in any establishment that serves alcohol for on premises consumption, but does allow you to carry there openly.
And NO I am not talking about bars, or drinking and carrying. I'm talking about just about any restaurant, Olive Garden, Applebees, some Denny's, all those thousands of local places that you can order a beer or glass of wine with dinner. |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 9:02:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Um, no. In fact I remember an incident a couple years ago (I'm sure someone will have a link) wherein a cop was shot just FOR his pistol. The BG wanted it to rob a bank with and all he had was a shotgun. He ran up to the cop while he was parked and killed him for it. This is not an isolated incident either. Think of it this way: a crook sees your pistol and to him it's $500-$1000 openly displayed on your hip, if nothing else (like a weapon that he'd love to have.) He can come up behind you and brain you and you won't have a chance. He can fence the gun to feed his meth habit or keep it and use it to commit other crimes. Besides, crack heads aren't always thinking rationally, never count on a crook to use logic when making decisions. |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 10:11:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Yep, here in VA, we MUST open carry in any establishment that is licensed to serve alcohol on the premises. It's a ridiculously stupid law, and I agree with the people who say that open carry makes you a target. Any bad guy who is willing to use a gun in the commission of a crime is going to dispatch you first, and then get on with what he came to do. You're not going to deter him because he's going to know that he's about to commit a crime before you, and therefore will always have the drop on you. |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 11:07:16 PM EDT
[#13]
+1--carrying the gun openly only provides something that BGs can STEAL (and perhaps temp em to try)--something that they would not know you have if it were concealed |
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Posted: 1/8/2006 11:12:21 PM EDT
[#14]
If I were going to rob a place I would make damn sure the guy with the gun is getting taken out of the equation first
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Posted: 1/9/2006 6:33:48 PM EDT
[#15]
I posted this in a previous thread on open carry, but I think it still applies. As for all the folks saying "you make yourself a target," I submit that most people don't even notice I'm carrying, even when I'm standing there talking to them. A goblin may or may not even notice your rig, unless you point it out to him.
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Posted: 1/9/2006 8:46:05 PM EDT
[#16]
I must beg to differ. The common sheeple may not see your weapon. Those drawn to them(i.e. gun nuts and bad guys) WILL see it. |
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Posted: 1/10/2006 2:27:15 AM EDT
[#17]
You're right, that's an important distinction. But, I would also like to think there's a deterrent effect in place as well. Bad guys are basically cowards, and I think they would rather avoid someone who has the balls to openly carry, in the theory that the armed man wouldn't carry unless he knows and isn't afraid to use it. The cases described above where open carry was targeted are all uniformed officers--easy to spot and plan against. Joe Schmoe walking down the street with a gun on his hip would at best present a 'target of opportunity,' and if your open-carrying you should be in condition Orange all the time anyway. (I'm not a criminologist or LEO, so I may be speaking out of my butt, but from my very brief encounters with those with potential ill intent while open carrying, they tend to steer clear as soon as they identified the pistol.) |
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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:28:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Does VA define open vs. concealed? Is removing your outer garment so your pistol is no longer concealed enough? Or is it a combination of no over garment and an OWB holster, etc., etc?
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Posted: 1/10/2006 6:02:48 AM EDT
[#19]
I think that while this may have a limited deterrent effect, I'm afraid that, by and large, it will not. Today's common criminal isn't afraid of much, other than work. Not even the police. We get reports of police officers attacked every single day. Many of those involve police who did not have a suspect cornered, where I would expect such a thing to happen, but right out of the blue. I believe we have transitioned into a breed of criminal who is willing to do anything as long as it does not directly show a threat on his life. I'm simply afraid my armed presence would make me less of a deterrent and more of a target. If they'll jump the cops for shits and giggles, they'll damn sure jump my pale, fat ass. |
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Posted: 1/10/2006 11:40:43 AM EDT
[#20]
YMMVThe only people I've ever seen open carry in IN, were either plainclothes/off-duty LEOs, or redneck dirty butts with their Lorcin in an one size fits all nylon holster with a braided leather belt! And boy were they impressing everyone! |
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Posted: 1/10/2006 11:53:44 AM EDT
[#21]
Even if all of the other issues mentioned above were equal between open and concealed carry (they are not, but just for the sake of argument...), then at the very least you have given up any advantage of the element of surprise you might have over an attacker. Your assailant should be considerably slower responding to you drawing a weapon from concealment than he would in responding to you going for a gun in plain sight that he is aware of - more of a difference IMO than any difference in draw-and-fire time between open & concealed (assuming you are practiced and carrying "well"). Just my $0.02.
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Posted: 1/10/2006 2:23:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Bottom line: Don't expect a criminal to think rationally / use common sense. Some of them are actually honest to goodness insane, and others are high as a kite and lack any sort of judgement.
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Posted: 1/16/2006 7:06:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Everyone assumes that a BG will always be so willing to commit his crime that he would be willing to shoot anything standing in his way. Maybe its my recent readings in "The Concealed Handgun Manual", but they tell a bunch of stories in which Open carry is more than enough of a deterrent, and it seems true to me, that most BGs dont want to commit murder..and therefore might be deterred by seeing your gun (or more than likely being under the stress they are under while committing the crime, will have totally overlooked the thought of a bystander being armed).
I plan to carry concealed in the coming months (after I get my permit), but just for arguments sake, I dont think people are giving BGs enough credit for having some ability to differentiate the consequences for murder, vs. robbery. (maybe some are crazy...but some arent...) Thoughts? |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 7:24:48 PM EDT
[#24]
I believe what you say is true about many folks, but some of them really are freaking nutballs who will kill you without a second thought for that $500 they see on your hip. They're probably in the minority. They do exist, however. Some of them are insane, high, or both -- incapable of rational thought. I think of it this way: a concealed weapon gives me a tactical advantage. I know something they don't. If it's not concealed, I don't have that secret. I can draw from concealment without them knowing I'm armed until they see what I'm doing. If I'm carrying openly, they'll know that I'm going for my gun as soon as I start to move. |
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Posted: 1/16/2006 8:40:32 PM EDT
[#25]
I can but generally don't carry open. Not due to a bad guy but due to over zellous "good" people who call the police saying man with a gun call. The sheeple just can't handle this open carry!
I do carry open around the house and at the cabin but not in more populated locations. 
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Posted: 1/16/2006 9:58:36 PM EDT
[#26]
*Playing Devil's Advocate* In VA, I too can legally "open carry", and think there probably would be a fair number of "man with a gun" calls into the police if I did so. However, I feel if you are printing while carrying concealed (it happens to everyone) there is a much greater probability of someone thinking because you are concealing it, you must be doing so illegally. (which would lead to a more panicked call to the police) I guess, on the whole, I buy into the element of surprise inherent to concealed carry, but dont think open carry is as terrible an idea as some members have made it out to be. |
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Posted: 1/17/2006 8:10:30 AM EDT
[#27]
I thought I'd get more harrassment for open carrying (I live in Northern VA), but in over a year doing it, I've only gotten one comment, and that was more along the lines of "what are you carrying" than screaming panic about a man with a gun. I've even carried in front of police officers, who did nothing but smile and walk past. As I said, one of the main reasons I open carry is because I hate the idea that gun = bad. No other way to break that idea than to show more guns doing nothing more than riding in leather. |
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Posted: 1/17/2006 8:14:13 AM EDT
[#28]
Oh really? Tell that to my man Cory. He had some drunk or high thug attack him in a marked unit. That was a really dumb assed assertion!  Cops shouldn't need to carry guns based on that logic! WOW that was dumb! |
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Posted: 1/17/2006 8:21:55 AM EDT
[#29]
fixed it 
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Posted: 1/19/2006 8:37:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Why take away from the element of surprise? Plus, maybe there is a situation where you did not want to intervene? Like multiple assailants. So many "what if's". Best to stay concealed and blend in and not stand out trying to be a hero. Some are cop wannabes. Just don't get why you want to display your gun. If you want to deter crime, or TRY to deter crime, join the police force.
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Posted: 1/20/2006 12:48:33 AM EDT
[#31]
I open carry to the range only. However, once after my range trip I went into McDonalds with a DROP-LEG TACTICAL HOLSTER and not a single person noticed. Now wtf? (I went to the bathroom walking past about 15 people and then left).
I really think people 99% of the time are oblivious. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 6:59:43 PM EDT
[#32]
I thought I would update my thoughts...
I took my CCW class this weekend and made sure to ask what the instructor thought of Open Carry and he was vehemently against it, for the same reason most of you are: it gives away the element of surprise. Although I didnt really have any intention of open carrying....I am now even less likely to do so. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 2:10:04 PM EDT
[#33]
yea, i tend to find more cops bothering me when i open carry. fist i get the are you a cop, then i get the million questions about why do i open carry and its dangerous and blah blah. once i even got cuffed till they worked it all out (not fun). all in all concealed is the way to go if you arent the law. |
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Posted: 1/31/2006 9:33:37 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/31/2006 11:53:12 PM EDT
[#35]
Heh now I've been going to the forums here for a bit and you know how you guys always say "Well if SHTF...." I mean you all NO OFFENSE but man if SHTF I can tell you where my gun would be. IN MY HAND!
Holster? Choo kidding me meng? Note exhibit A: In this picture below shit has no doubt hit the fan. As you can see the gun is in the hand.  (A joke.. a joke. I kid!) |
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Posted: 2/1/2006 6:33:41 PM EDT
[#36]
Just curious, I will be carrying in Arizona and am wondering if it is permissable to "Open Carry" in national forests. What sparked my attention was a sign at a trail head which read "Use of Firearms Prohibited." Can that be twisted to mean you cannot carry them as well?
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Posted: 2/2/2006 9:48:26 PM EDT
[#37]
I've carried both open and concealed for years depending on the jurisdiction. Before Kentucky passed its Concealed Deadly Weapons permit it was only open carry. Only once had the law stop me in 10 years. Did have the owners of establishments ask me not to carry twice. Anytime you carry either open or concealed you should always be aware of your surroundings. Right now my permit has expired since I've been overseas and will be returning home shorty. I'll be carrying open again untill I renew my permit.
As far as National Parks are concerned they are off limits to firearms since thats Federal property. State Parks will vary (IE Kentucky allows in State Parks I believe and definitly in Wildlife Managment Areas). CD |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 5:33:42 AM EDT
[#38]
I don't think open carry has any real world advanatges over concealed carry. It may be a bit faster to draw the weapon, but if the bad guy sees it before you draw it won't matter.
The only time I could see taking advantage of my state's open carry laws would be to carry a slung rifle if the SHTF. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 8:34:42 AM EDT
[#39]
If the SHTF, carry laws would be the least of my concerns! hinking.gif |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 8:42:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Yeah. Lets get some answers here .____ I see the tactical reasons for concealed. Strategically I think open carry is good to acclimate the sheeple to the FACT that guns are no more dangerous than the person with it. If people see perfectly normal people carrying then they begin to learn. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 10:13:04 AM EDT
[#41]
Kinda off topic but in respons to the national parks question
National Parks and Forests laws basically your not allowed to carry in national praks but its OK in national forests. just not inside the building in the national forest. |
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Posted: 2/3/2006 12:54:28 PM EDT
[#42]
Except that we have seen gun laws severly over-enforced in crisis situations. |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 6:55:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Open carry: Allows the public to interact with known armed citizens - this can make important and long-lasting political points, depending on the behavior of the armed citizen, and can help "normalize" carry. It'll give you a (more or less) faster response time. It can make you a target.
Concealed Carry: Doesn't make any political point as long as it stays concealed. Other points are opposite above. Choose! |
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