Ok, so after mulling a few options I went to Primary Arms and jumped at their excellent combo deal, I went with the first generation Micro-Dot and clicked on the option for them to add an Ultimak M13 for $75.  http://www.primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=402&categoryId=128  

While I was there I also grabbed another Surefire G2, because the price was right.  I was able to mount the Ultimak rail on "Ultima Ratio Civis," my SBR Bulgarian Krink, without modifying the lower handguard to make room for the rings that hold the Ultimak to the barrel.  The trick is to position the rings in the correct place first, then install the lower handguard and go ahead and rotate the handguard retaining cap lever into the locked position before you screw in the M13 mount, because once the M13 is in place there is no room to rotate the lever.

Anyway, when I was satisfied that everything was the way I wanted it and blue locktite had been applied to all screws, I took some pics of my setup.  I've emailed Marshall and given him my express permission to use these for advertising purposes if he likes.  

I was under the mistaken impression that the Gen1 Micro-Dot had its LED emitter located somewhere besides the bottom of the optic, and I had heard people say that if you got one with the emitter "bump" at the bottom that it wouldn't co-witness.  As you can see from the co-witness pic, this does not matter at all in this installation.  Maybe on other AK setups it does, but on this gun it is totally irrelevant.

I didn't think to get a pic of the hand position when using the flashlight when the gun is on the shooter's left shoulder, but basically you use the side of your right index finger, its easy.

Without further ado:

Left Side


Right Side


Quarter Angle


Full Gun Left


Full Gun Right


Flashlight In Use


Co-witness


I hope this helps anyone trying to figure out whether this combination of parts will work on their rifle.

Thanks.

Nice setup!

Duke,
We need to go shooting asap so I can try this system out.
My 5.45 Krink went pending with the BATFE April 2. Now I just need to find someone that knows how to put a finish on it. Any ideas

I know a guy that still occasionally does refinishing, for his friends.

I ordered a Gen 3 micro dot from Primary Arms and just took some photos to compare its mounting setup and co-witness with the Gen 1 unit.  The Gen 3 unit sits higher to give a 1/3 co-witness (a bit more glass and a bit less iron sight in the sight picture), plus it comes with a kill flash which looks pretty good on the Krinkov.









Here is a direct comparison of the two types.  At first glance there may not seem to be much difference, but that is mostly due to camera angle (which is actually not quite identical between the two pictures).  Look at how much glass there is above the iron sight's protective "wings" on the Gen3 compared to the Gen1 and you'll get an idea of how much higher the newer micro dot sits on the M13 rail.

Duke, would you think a Larue LT661 would place the LED emitter, of Gen1 and Gen3, in the line of the alignment of the iron sight?

That's one hot setup.

Edit: I totally forgot a number, I was asking about the Larue Low mount for Aimpoint H1/T1s.

I don't know that the LT660 is even compatible with the Primary Arms units.  Maybe Marshall can chime in and let us know.  The LED emitter is at the bottom of these sights so its possible that if they sit too high they could obstruct the irons, but I don't know how tall the LT660 is.

I feel like a total dunce, I was referring to the LT661 (short). Hopefully Marshall can chime in, if not an email could always be dispatched.

That's one gorgeous krink -
I have the same setup from Marshall on 3 of my AK's, I am VERY pleased with the performance to cost ratio.




BTW whats that G2 mount?

I am runnung the vLtor SM-OCG w/ G2 in the same spot.

- forrest0872
tag

His does not have writing on it, but it looks very close this:
KZ

Yeah, its a cheapie KZ mount from (gasp!) Botach.  Since Marshall may use these pics in advertising (if he wants) I blurred out the logo on the flashlight mount to avoid any intellectual property infringement issues.

I was under the impression that the Gen 1 was not made any more?  Am I wrong?

Ordered mine less than a month ago.  Whether they are still being made or not, they are in stock.

Thank you very much.  So, as shown above, for all the variants of the AK, going with a GEN 3 should get a cowitness as well?

Marshall,
If you're still watching this thread do you know how well a Sig Micro will co-witness with your rail?

Marshall,

Not necessary Marshall, I believe there is at least one member that can answer my inquiry. I do believe I remember at least one person with a Primary Arms micro dot with a Larue 661 riser on a Krink's Ultimak.

Awesome!  Thanks for the answer Marshall.  Been tossing the Ultimak around in the mind, but wasn't sure about the Sig and I already have the Sig.  Thanks, again.

I just tried the Gen 3 on a standard AK47 Ultimak (on a standard type AK, not a Krink) and the emitter was in the way.  It sat too high and the emitter obscured the front sight.  So go with one of the lower mounted options instead.  However, I can vouch that in terms of weight and bulk these mini dots are way better than a full sized Aimpoint ML2:

Aimpoint:


Primary Arms Gen 3:

Thanks for the report.  Guess I'll keep looking (and in the mean time, continue to practice with my irons).

I might have to look into that Aimpoint Comp C3 a bit more (though that's a little spendy for my first red dot experiment).  I sent you a PM to let me know when you get more Gen 1's in since I have a Rommy and not a krink.  Thanks for the good info in this thread.  

What length is your barrel, please? That is a handsome rifle, and I think my AMD might get a similar treatment after sending two benjamins of to our overlords.








 

Barrel length on a Bulgarian Krink is somewhere around 7.5 inches.  Nice to have a gun that short running flawlessly, 7.5 inch shorty ARs usually mean constant gas system headaches.  :)

The rifle in the pic I quoted doesn't look like a Krink kit, gas block/sight are different. Barrel looks a lot longer than 7.5, but hard to tell from the angle. It looks like closer to 12.5" or so? To be specific, I am talking about the rifle that wears the Vortex FH on the end. Nice rifles, all the way around though









 

Marshall,

Does the C3 give a co-witness?  How about a pic?

Thanks,

Hizzie

Ah, you were talking about the AMD build.  I'll get back to you on that.

Yep, that one. I thought it looked like an AMD with a 74 stock. Thats a very handy looking rifle sir.








 

Yeah, its a factory AMD-63 barrel, so 12 inches.  It is a very handy rifle and runs with typical 7.62 AK reliability.

Duke (Mike), nice set up!  Thinking very seriously about doing something similar.  



Does anyone know if the Ultimak M-13 would work with my Kreb's lower handguard?  Love that quad rail, but the top rail just sits too high.  This might be a solution?

Marshall, do you still offer the Ultimak M13 and Gen III combo?  Tried to click Duke's previously posted link to order and it went nowhere.  If so, I'd like to purchase those items.  Thanks in advance.

Duke,

You mean its an AMD-65 length barrel. AMD-63 would be 16".

Form 1 on the krink is still pending. Sent off the paperwork Fed 10th.

NFA branch is really dragging their feet right now, everyone is bitching about it.

I don't see it....



 

Exile, you mean Feb 10th.



Got my Ultimak M13 and Gen 3 RDS in the mail today from Primary Arms.  Quik service, thanks.  It works with the lower half of a Krebs quad rail, but the hand guard is sloppy!  I'm going to have to find a way to tighten things up or find a new lower handguard.



Anyone know if Autoburst is still selling their handguards?  Their site looks like its still up...