Hey all i was looking at a dragunov, and it seem pretty sweet but i dont know anything about them.  My question is what is their range? also the one i saw was a romanian one, i also saw a russian one but it was for like $2k, while the rumanian was only like $550, why such a big difference is the romanian one crap? are they even the same rifle

ps sorry if i put this in the wrong forum, not sure where to post it.

A romanian is stamped and all the russian dragunovs are milled that is a big diff....as for range they both shoot 7.62x54 so no matter what they both have some good range....as for the price 550 is a good price for a Romanian ......2k is going price for a Russian because they have not been imported for many years

Russian uses a completely different operating system. Romanian is basically a really long AK. I've heard max effective range is about 600 yards, of course the round has more in it, rilfe can't accuratley put it out further

They're completely different rifles, using different operating systems, different magazines, and different manufacturing techniques.

However, they are both intended for pretty much the same purpose, use the same optics, and shoot the same caliber.

Either one, with proper ammo, accurate scope zero, and a shooter skilled in long distance shooting, has proven to shoot 3/4 MOA or better at 100 yards. I really don't know how far out they'll shoot 'minute of badguy's chest', but I can hit a 12" metal disc at our range that is about 430 yards out with every shot. With most shots, I can hit a 5" gong at the same distance. That's pretty damn impressive considering we're just shooting surplus MG ammo through them.

cool thanks for the info guys, i was interested in it casue i thought it be nice to add a military sniper rifle to the collection. But from what i read the romanian one doesnt seem to be all that, so i think i am going to go for a nagant instead probably a 91/30. The price is unbeatable and it seems like a nice old workhorse to have in ones collection, and from what i read they damn acurate also. So what do u guys think about going that route?

Quoted: cool thanks for the info guys, i was interested in it casue i thought it be nice to add a military sniper rifle to the collection. But from what i read the romanian one doesnt seem to be all that, so i think i am going to go for a nagant instead probably a 91/30. The price is unbeatable and it seems like a nice old workhorse to have in ones collection, and from what i read they damn acurate also. So what do u guys think about going that route?

The Romainan one isn't that bad.  My younger cousin has one and other than the crappy finish, it is fairly accurate @ 100 yards.  He is coming down this weekend with some match ammo, so we will really test what that baby can do @ 100 yards.

As for a Nagant, they are damn good rifles for the money but kick like a son of a bitch.  I had the opportunity to shoot one a few weeks ago, and that is not a gun that you will want to shoot all day at the range.  My younger cousin plans to get a Nagant just to have two rifles that shoot the same round.  He also wants to grab an NDM86 since the price of the true Russian SVD is a tad bit out there, but those Norinco's are up there too!

As for my opinion, if you want the Romanian PSL, by all means go for it.  If you don't like the finish, you can always get it refinished.  If you don't like it, you can always sell it off.  As for the Nagant, IMHO that is the best buy for the money and you can't go wrong with one of those beasts.  Solid guns that will last a lifetime.  

Don't get the wrong impression, the PSL is a great rifle and I LOVE mine. By all means, get one!

i love my PSL,.... i zeroed mine with  8xPOSP at 500m,...the rifle has alot more left in it,..im going to start reloading for mine and see what i can do with it,.. the spring loaded butt plate comes in handy to pretty much kill the recoil.

just make sure that you get a PSL made in Romania,.. ive heard the the quality of the ones built in the states is not up to par.

get some nice optics ,.and some good ammo  for it and you will love it

Quoted: just make sure that you get a PSL made in Romania,..

Where can I find one of those these days???

m39 wich one is that, is that one ofthe finish nagants? ok let me tell u guys what i am looking for and then tell me what u all think. I am mainly looking for a cheap long range rifle, something i could shoot at lets say 800 yards if i ever felt like it with a scope, or atleast 600 yards. Not that i see my self being good enough to shoot that far, but lets say if i was ever in the wild  and i spotted a deer 650 yards or 700 yards i could take it out. I dont know how often somethign like would hapen but it's just nice to know the capability is in the rifle.

someone mentioned before 600 meters being the max effective range.

Snipersparadise.com had an interview with a soviet spetz vet of the Afghan war.  Said they easily engaged moojes at 1000m.

Quoted: someone mentioned before 600 meters being the max effective range. Snipersparadise.com had an interview with a soviet spetz vet of the Afghan war.  Said they easily engaged moojes at 1000m. hr

i think the 600 meter thing was for the romanian dragunov not the russian one.

Quoted: Quoted: someone mentioned before 600 meters being the max effective range. Snipersparadise.com had an interview with a soviet spetz vet of the Afghan war.  Said they easily engaged moojes at 1000m. i think the 600 meter thing was for the romanian dragunov not the russian one.

Where I heard that range was 600 m, was from the Russian military, when they introduced it. It is meant to extend the range of an infantry squad to 600m, because the AK's are only good for 300m.
of course with the internet these days, take that with a grain of salt!

this is what i was looking for,....pretty good run down of the PSL,...shows the diffrence between the PSL's and Dragunov's

Heads bunker

ETA:

Quoted: Quoted: just make sure that you get a PSL made in Romania,.. Where can I find one of those these days???

keep your eyes open and have anywhere from 650-900 ready to be spent,...unless it comes with a boat load of crap dont pay over 900.

most of the kit builds will be marked on the rear sight block that there where made / put together in TN. im sure someone has a picture of what that looks like.

also if you do find a Romanian made PSL and you look on the bottom of the reciver in front of the mag well and see a triangle with a arrow in it,.. that rifle was a actual service rifle before,....i dont know if it would jack up the price,.. but it definatly raises the cool factor

i dont want to infer that the US made rifles are crap,....but some do have problems,....i think that most could be fixed though,...if it came down to it and the only way i could own a rifle like that was to buy a US made one i would get it,.. and not think twice about it.

Quoted: this is what i was looking for,....pretty good run down of the PSL,...shows the diffrence between the PSL's and Dragunov's Heads bunker ETA: Quoted: Quoted: just make sure that you get a PSL made in Romania,.. Where can I find one of those these days??? keep your eyes open and have anywhere from 650-900 ready to be spent,...unless it comes with a boat load of crap dont pay over 900. most of the kit builds will be marked on the rear sight block that there where made / put together in TN. im sure someone has a picture of what that looks like. also if you do find a Romanian made PSL and you look on the bottom of the reciver in front of the mag well and see a triangle with a arrow in it,.. that rifle was a actual service rifle before,....i dont know if it would jack up the price,.. but it definatly raises the cool factor i dont want to infer that the US made rifles are crap,....but some do have problems,....i think that most could be fixed though,...if it came down to it and the only way i could own a rifle like that was to buy a US made one i would get it,.. and not think twice about it.

thanks for the link man. u know what guys maybe i will go with the  psl, i saw this one site that had them for like 500 or 600 so hey i could get that now and latter save the money for a real dragunov, casue they that sexy o yea gigidi gigidi.

Have any U.S. manufacturers ever pushed out a Dragunov copy? I'm thinking none have. I would definitely be on it.

i think cold steel makes a reciver,....but thats about it,.. everything else that is made here is from a parts kit.

Quoted: Quoted: someone mentioned before 600 meters being the max effective range. Snipersparadise.com had an interview with a soviet spetz vet of the Afghan war.  Said they easily engaged moojes at 1000m. i think the 600 meter thing was for the romanian dragunov not the russian one.

I agree, I was talking about the Russian SVD, forgot to add that.

-mark

Where can I find one of those these days???

Ihave one on order from Southern Ohio Gun.  But, even though thier website shows them in stock, they told my dealer they are out of stock.  They sure seem to have dried up recently.  I am kicking my self for not picking one up at a gunshow last year about this time...

Sucks too, cause my ammo order just arrived:  440 rds of Hungarian surplus.  Plus, I have a line on about 200 rounds of the new reloadable Wolf stuff that is hard to find.


Come on....Arrive dammit!!  Spring is here and I want a new 3v1L rifle to shoot!!

they've dried up, I plan on getting one when my Tax refund gets here.

the good thing is they are NOT affected by the barrel band, so assuming the romies keep making them they will still be imported, unless the laws change.

notice the ones coming now dont have removable brakes and no bayo lugs.  It's assuming they'll be used for hunting like any other semi-auto hunting rifle you can buy at a gun shop.

I am by no means a great shooter, but I have shot with an M-14 at Camp Perry.

600 yards, no scope, no mount, no bi/tripod, no rest. A sling, ammo, an M-14 and you lying down.

It is easy if you have breathing control and trigger control. The standard PSO-1 scope is 4x magnification making it easier to see the target. As long as you are not a crappy shooter, and as long as you use decent ammo, you CAN hit a man sized target at 1,000 Meters. SVD, PSL, it does not matter. Most NDMs- 7.62x54R AND .308- shoot worse than the PSL for some reason. Shotgun News had an article on this. SVD style of operation but still piss poor accuracy.

If you want good long range ammo, and you do not mind corrosive, the Yugo 182gr. stuff is nice. If you hate corrosive, for close ranges you can use Olympic 180gr. FMJ and for longer ranges use Wolf 147gr. as the 147gr. Wolf is closer to what the scopes bullet drop compensator is set for. Wolf 200gr. Match would definately be excellent for long range shooting, but the heavy bullets are bad for the gas system- too much pressure. I would not push above 180grs., but even then some think that is too heavy. It would be a good idea to get a BlackJack green buffer for the PSL just in case.

If I hold a SVD sideways and shoot at 100 yards it shoots worse than the PSL shooting off the shoulder. This meaning it is the shooter that causes errors. You can blame whatever you want, be it the ammo or the gun or the weather or whatever. The fact of it all is that the problem is YOU. Period. My shooting coach had to hammer it into my head (and made me shoot 100 yard matches with ball ammo to prove it... I placed the first 5 shots in one ragged hole in the 10 ring and decided that I would rather blame myself for the first messups and then get to take credit for the accuracy).

The US built PSLs usually stink. If there are import or manufacurer markings on the rear sight block, it is probably a US build, even if the reciever is Romanian. If it has no bayo lug, it is probably a ban import Romanian PSL, good stuff.

I acquired a kit from MGS, appears unfired.  I am not sure if I want to build from an 80%  blank.  Sure would be nice to have a 100% receiver to go with, but alas, none in the States at this time that I know of.  I'll be at the Knob Creek shoot this weekend, hopefully maybe some one there will have one..............

+1,000 Q-gunner2

mine is a 04 manufacture,.. no bayo lug,. (most kits that have them have the ears ground off anyway)..but i would love to put a bayo lug and SVD type brake on mine. i havent tried the 147gr wolf yet,.. but i want to get ahold of some,...or get set up to roll my own.

other than that all im doing to it is gettin some new handguards and stock to refinish to match the other Romanians i have.

Cruzie man, looks my PSL won't be here after all.
I had originally ordered one from SOG a few weeks ago, call up some time around lastweek and talked to some girl, I think her name was rebecca? Not sure?

Rebecca: This is Rebecca at SOG how can I help you?

Me: Hi Rebecca, I placed an order for 2 PSLs from you last week that were on backorder, I just wanted to check the status of them.

Rebecca: We are still filling the backorders, we have 400 backorders currently. When we get to you on the list we'll ship it right out.

Me:   ........

Rebecca: Sir!??...

Me: Thank you Rebecca, I'll check in again.

I'll just order from another supplier. Damn! 400 backorders! They didn't tell me that the first time I spoke with them. What's a kick in the nuts is I ordered the extra 4 mag/ pouch. That came in but no PSL.

oh well.

wow,.. i hope you get your two rifles,...i know the 4 mag + pouch thing is not cheap. worst comes to worst and you dont get them,.. ill buy them

Damn! 400 backorders!

Dang!  They give any indication of when they expect to get that filled?  I have a feeling I'm probably #399...sigh.  Maybe I need to tell my dealer to cancel it and use my deposit on something else?

Course, if they're this hard to find, I already have my price quoted...perhaps I should continue waiting?  I really want the gun...

I was going to buy that 4 mag/pouch combo too, but decided to wait to see how much I actually like the rifle before going nuts with accessories....

Quoted: Damn! 400 backorders! Dang!  They give any indication of when they expect to get that filled?  I have a feeling I'm probably #399...sigh.  Maybe I need to tell my dealer to cancel it and use my deposit on something else? Course, if they're this hard to find, I already have my price quoted...perhaps I should continue waiting?  I really want the gun... I was going to buy that 4 mag/pouch combo too, but decided to wait to see how much I actually like the rifle before going nuts with accessories....

For the price with scope it's not bad at all, if you can wait, they say they get 6-10 rifles in everyday so eventually people will cancel orders and more orders will get filled. Just I won't be around to get the rifle so oh well.

I believe most of the SOG guns are US built... beware...