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Posted: 6/22/2005 6:34:20 PM EDT
[#1]
thanks for the heads up
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Posted: 6/22/2005 7:57:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Holy ripoff Bateman! Most outfits don't make 25% on any sale. How would it be to sell something, make 25% profit, and still have the product to sell again. Why anyone would buy from them is beyond me. Thanks for the heads up.
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Posted: 6/22/2005 8:31:12 PM EDT
[#3]
If that's NOT illegal.....it SHOULD be!
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Posted: 6/22/2005 8:46:50 PM EDT
[#4]
WTF Man fuck those bastards... |
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Posted: 6/22/2005 11:11:54 PM EDT
[#5]
I've said it before and I will say it again, the firearms industry is by far the most unprofessional industry that I have ever delt with.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 2:16:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Very disturbing.......
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Posted: 6/23/2005 3:31:39 AM EDT
[#7]
at my work place we charge 20% restocking fee...as far as bussiness goes he is not to far out of line... again you should have done your homework BERORE you order....
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Posted: 6/23/2005 3:39:43 AM EDT
[#8]
A restocking fee is not out of the line if there is nothing wrong with the product and the customer still do not want to keep it. Just the bead weld feed ramp is reason enough to be returned without charge. For $845 and still missing stuff that any of us would expect to be included with a rifle, the seller is the one who did not do his homework correctly.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 4:55:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Thank you for the Heads-up. I would try a Saiga conversion on my own rather than be treated like that.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 5:50:48 AM EDT
[#10]
+1 exactly. you give crappy service and give out a crappy product and then charge a restocking fee when people dont want the product, its bad buissness. |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 6:05:11 AM EDT
[#11]
That's the second thread in two weeks about crazy restocking fee's from various companies..
But 25%!!!!!!!!  eta: And what makes it even more horrible is you got shitty work to boot...Man I hope people like that get what they deserve!!!!! |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 8:28:10 AM EDT
[#12]
Wasnt there a thread recently about the same company? I think it was locked though.
www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=72351 |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 9:34:19 AM EDT
[#13]
Maybe. The name of the smith was edited out, but his defender posted a bunch of pics of the guys work named 'eliteX.jpg'. |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 11:36:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Indeed, the thread posted here is about "Diamond Dave" David Michener at Elite FireArms.
I asked Templar to unlock it so I can post his name. I was going to wait until I got my rifle back from AKUSA (I shipped it out today), but when I saw this thread I knew I needed to edit it now. Here's an update: It only took one day for Diamond Dave to tell me to go fuck myself concerning paying for repairs because he didn't like the thread. I can see that he just thought of it as "hush money" and not really wanting to make things right. I will get back to the thread when I get the rifle back from Chris. So I am out $240, but I learned a much more valuable lesson. |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 12:47:06 PM EDT
[#15]
I wonder how long before this thread gets locked...although I think we all have the right to hear this kind of stuff. If it's going to be buyer beware, it's good to know a little about how people operate first.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#16]
There is another firearms store that is completely different called Elite Firearms in PA. IIRC it is a class 3 dealer.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 1:08:04 PM EDT
[#17]
Global Trade charges 15% restocking fee and I didn't know it until they told me on the phone.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 2:00:24 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 6/23/2005 2:37:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Sorry to hear about that guy.
In the spirit of what I constantly get from people when I try to give fellow ARFcommers a heads up about a problem...must be your fault, you're full of shit, it's a great product, I had a great buying experience from that guy and you suck... VERY tongue in cheek, sarcasm.  |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 2:37:48 PM EDT
[#20]
25% restocking fee? He's nuts. Hardly a reputable dealer! It's typical to give a
3-day inspection on firearm sales. I saw a post he made on another gun board a few months ago. Someone had a Saiga 12 for sale with a pistol grip and 8-round magazine. He immediately posted that the package was illegal (pistol grip & hi-cap mag = illegal). Pretty much summed up what he really knows. |
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Posted: 6/23/2005 4:35:25 PM EDT
[#21]
It's not necessarily the firearms industry that is the problem. It's the people who are involved in it, but that's with just about any industry. I'm definately going to give Red Star Arms a big WELL DONE. I ordered something from them and the post office "left" it in a supposedly "empty" container. I called and talked to them and they shipped me out another package. They could have said too bad, you only paid for one order. I received the second package they sent and then a few days later, I received the first one they sent. It would have just been wrong for me to keep the first one, so I had the post office return to sender. As you can see, it's not the industry that's all bad, there are people out there who will do their best to treat you right, just don't take advantage of them, just like you wouldn't like being taken advantage of.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 4:38:20 PM EDT
[#22]
A 10-15 percent restocking fee is not outrageous if the item is returned for no other reason than the customer changed his mind. For poor quality, wrong item sent, ect, etc, no fee should be charged. I bought an expensive product online a year ago and got a POS in the mail. I returned it and got hit with the restocking fee. One call to American Express and the amount in question was returned immediatly to my account and Amex went after the seller. Use your credit card, Amex preferred, and dispute the charges when this happens.
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Posted: 6/23/2005 6:15:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Noted. Thank you.
Sammy
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Posted: 6/24/2005 6:33:56 AM EDT
[#24]
$240.00 for restock is BULL SHIT and it is out of line.
MODS is it possible to have a Buyer Beware Section for our members? |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 6:43:42 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm glad this forum exists, so we can learn about things like this
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Posted: 6/24/2005 9:47:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Always use a charge card, or you are boned.
I ordered ram memory from a chinese outfit in Kalifornia, the original order was for two chips, and I paid for a motherboard test and match. I got one, they ship me out the second chip, and it wont run with the first one, so I send it back, they tell me they want me to return the first and operating chip, and I had already dumped my old smaller ram on ebay, and cant do this, so I tell them keep the 2nd chip and give me a 50% refund, NOOOO, you gotta pay 20%, not for their screw up I didnt. I documented it to the CC company, including all their emails, and I was given the full amount back during the dispute, but you have to keep a paper trail, from your original complaint, to their offeres for resoloution, to document that they were unreasonable in taking care of the problem, and you can easily win a restocking charge fight. You only pay restocking fees if its your choice to return the item, bad merchandise is DEFINITELY fightable, if you paid via CREDIT CARD. |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 10:17:44 AM EDT
[#27]
I've seen work from the diamond man on the wall at military gun supply. I was not impressed.
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Posted: 6/24/2005 1:13:51 PM EDT
[#28]
ALL returned products. How about 25% restocking fee on NON-Defective products. See if you have a buyers remorse, wife bitched you out for spending the money or any other affliction that keeps you from following through on the transaction, then it cost money to be a flake. See when you order a CUSTOM rifle built to your specifications. Then there is a certain obligation on the buyers part. Simply saying QUOTE "Not something I want in my collection." Is not a valid reason for return. 8416w... Does any of this ring a bell. How about the other rifle that your happy as lark about. Ooops, forgot to mention that little safe queen. Ehhhhh! |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 4:01:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Some of these so called 'smiths are so inept and their businesses so shitty that restocking fees are probably the only thing keeping them in business. Eventually they will shut down and change their name and repeat.
If you used a credit card file for a charge back based on the rifle being unsafe. I wouldn't consider a weld feedramp a safe weapon. Thanks for the headsup on "Diamond Dave" though. What an asshole. |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 4:09:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Where is that quote?? |
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Posted: 6/24/2005 7:26:41 PM EDT
[#31]
File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission, under the CONSUMER PROTECTION ACT!
It IS illegal to charge a restocking fee on defective merchandise. If the gun was not built properly, to accepted standards, it is defective! But the only way you will ever recover any money is to contact the FTC. They will also, in addition to getting your money back, put a hugh dent in that company's finances by way of fines for violation of the consumer protection act. OJF |
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Posted: 6/25/2005 5:06:01 PM EDT
[#32]
i just can't buy an arbitrary percentage-based restocking fee.
unless the product was custom ordered, his acual loss to restock, is that time taken by an hourly employee to walk the item back and put it in a bin, on a shelf, what ever. any fee beyond that is an actual profit, not recouping a loss. the vendor also isn't "stuck" with the product, as it is one of many that are selling, he just has to resell that one again before reordering the next batch. so.....they want to make some profit on nothing, so as to discourage returns, fine. but why can't it be a flat rate? 25% of a $200 purchase isn't bad, but 25% of a $1000 purchase sucks, especially when you know they can't justify it at all beyond the "it's our policy". what's it really cost a company to accept a return, for a legit reason, especially when they don't pay for the return shipping....10 minutes of someones time to open a box, process the item into inventory, walk out back with product and put on a shelf......oh yeah, that's gotta be worth a couple of hunded bucks, that's reasonable. ok, i'll credit them 5 additional minutes of justified loss to recoup for the time initially used during ordering that could have been used to generate an order that wasn't returned. this is just something else that's gonna be considered industry accepted practice, a cute term that gets around justafication for the extra charge. just and reasonable have been replaced with what we can get away with. rambling semi-rant over. |
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Posted: 6/25/2005 7:05:05 PM EDT
[#33]
tag, Gunbid just made things interesting.
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Posted: 6/26/2005 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm guessing the hourly employee has to box up the item, drive to the main UPS counter at the airport, cost of gas, vehicle, shipping insurance and return trip. I can easily see two to three hours depending on traffic. Also we should not forget the additional photos and phone calls by the customer for his custom one of a kind rifle. Add two more hours for employee just jacking with the digital camera, cropping, sizing and emailing. Customer changes his mind on custom one of a kind rifle, wants different furniture. Did I mention he needs new pics that require sizing, cropping and emailing. You can see how this adds up, ehhh! |
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Posted: 6/26/2005 5:18:13 PM EDT
[#35]
 Bud, you've got some pretty damn incompetent staff! Now, you're Elite Firearms. aren't you?! 
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Posted: 6/26/2005 6:49:27 PM EDT
[#36]
The rifle was a off the shelf item; it was not custom built for me.
8416w |
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Posted: 6/26/2005 7:04:53 PM EDT
[#37]
you must have missed what is now in red. also, outgoing shipping isn't a loss, that was paid for over and above the cost of the product, as very few merchants include shipping and handling into the posted cost of an item. this place must be low in volume also, as most places have the ups truck swing by and pick up a whole batch of outgoing packages, instead of devoting the efforts of an employee just for the one box. my bitch isn't with the particulars of this thread, although i find it suspect, my bitch is in general about all restocking fees. the cost involved to restock should be fairly consistant from one item to the next ,to NOT include the actual cost of the item, as that is returned to inventory and is a wash. it should take the same effort, whether it's a $500 item, or $1,500 item, so why the % method and disparity in penalty for equal return services? disclaimer: my belief is that the return reason has to be legit, buyers' remorse is refusal of return as far as i'm concerned. |
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Posted: 7/26/2005 6:13:44 AM EDT
[#38]
Yep! Elite Firearms will be the next Hesse Arms...err...Vulcan Armament. Just an FYI, I sent him an email asking him to build me a krink pistol with an underfolder trunion but not drill the holes for the underfolder and weld up the back so at a later date I could remove the weld, drill the holes and install an underfolder (once Form 1 came back). He said that is illegal. Once a pistol always a pistol. What an idiot! |
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Posted: 7/26/2005 7:11:58 PM EDT
[#39]
Actually, I think I have heard "once a pistol always a pistol" too.
I think most people just use a fake can for extra barrel length until the SBR form comes back. |
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Posted: 7/26/2005 7:29:13 PM EDT
[#40]
Once a pistol, always a pistol is completely wrong. I posed this question a while back and someone responded with an BATF page explaining that a pistol can be made into a rifle, but a rifle can never be made into a pistol. If you search, it will probably come up.
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Posted: 7/26/2005 8:18:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Dude... Put up the crack. Once a pistol always a pistol is TRUE. All FFLs enter guns in their federal book as a Rifle, Handgun or Shotgun.
What Dave told you is true. |
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Posted: 7/26/2005 8:26:07 PM EDT
[#42]
Wrong, a pistol can be made into a rifle so long as it has a 16in barrel length; however, a rifle can never be made into a pistol. |
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Posted: 7/26/2005 9:50:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Here's another vote for "you're wrong!". Case in point - Glocks and Glock Stocks. Putting a Glock Stock on an unregistered Glock is illegal manufacture of an SBR. File a form one on your Glock, register it as an SBR, and you can put a Glock Stock on it. And yes, you CAN register your Glock handgun as an SBR. So, no, not "once a pistol, always a pistol". |
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Posted: 7/27/2005 3:30:37 AM EDT
[#44]
GunBid and Diamond Dave demonstrate their vast storehouse of knowledge.
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Posted: 7/27/2005 6:08:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Your just some guy who post on a message board, you hold no Federal Licenses of any sort, yet you know so much.
NOT TheKater, let me ask you this question... Why did you send your rifle to Elite... You said that other smiths have done awesome work, why not go with the ones that have already done good work. Was it the price, the turn around time... Just tell us why! 
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Posted: 7/27/2005 6:59:17 AM EDT
[#46]
I'm not taking up for the guy but think about this.......... Something to ponder.........Example. Walmart has given America a sense of "I'll try it, if I don't like it, I'll return it". That's  You can do that when you have nothing vested in your cheap products you basically sell on consignment as Walmart does, they only pay for what they sell not for a store full of inventory. They use someone elses money! For the small business man, he sell a product and counts on that money to pay his bills, he can't afford to take returns just because you decided you didn't like it or do your research before the purchase. Its not the sellers fault. Goes back to the old addage "Buyer Beware". Walmart has ruined it for the small business man and the country with its Liberal attitude. I am a dealer and ALL my suppliers charge at least a 15% restocking fee if I want to return something "I don't like" or "I can't sell". That's not out of line at all.
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Posted: 7/27/2005 7:00:46 AM EDT
[#47]
3-day inspections only apply to USED guns! |
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Posted: 7/27/2005 7:06:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Sorry, but charging over $200 to return it and then turn around and sell it again for more profit is just wrong. |
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Posted: 7/27/2005 7:21:35 AM EDT
[#49]
Yeah but what about the profit he lost on YOUR commitment? He will have another gun whether or not its "yours" to sell again to make MORE profit. Is that wrong.I don't think so.
"Buyer Beware" says it all!! Should have done the research before you made the commitment. If it fell apart or was faulty in any way he sould have made it good, but it's not his fault just because you decided itwas not up to your standards AFTER you bought it. Its like buying a car....can't take them back either! Not going to get into a pissing contest here...............just my .02........and that's all I have to say!! 
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Posted: 7/27/2005 8:08:48 AM EDT
[#50]
So obviously, according to gunbid, none of us know anything about federal firearms law. Since when did having an FFL qualify someone as a firearms law expert?? A "pistol" can be made into a rifle, AS LONG as it has at least a 16" barrel, and is 26" in overall length, with the stock extended in the shooting position. If you put a stock on your pistol,with shorter than a 16" barrel, and it is not registered as an SBR, it is NOT legal. If you put a pistol grip on a rifle and it does NOT have a stock, and is under 26" overall length, it is NOT legal. The statement should read, "Once a machinegun, always a machinegun." I guess in his eyes, we know about as much about federal firearms law, as he does about customer service. KyARGuy |
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