Question about legality of folding stocks...

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question about legality of folding stocks...

Posted: 9/15/2004 8:55:55 PM EDT

OK....

I know the AWB is gone...for now anyways.

But here is my question. I bought a MAK90 less than a year ago. I was wondering if it is legal for me to add a sidefolder. I'm confused. Are all guns bought prior to september 13, 2004 pre-ban? Or is there gonna be a window between 1994-2004 were guns imported during that time are consider post-pan and guns bought after september 13, 04 gonna be pre-ban?

I'd like to know the answer before I go throwing something together just to find out its very illegal. But then again the law is so vague its hard to tell.

If I can put a sidefolder on I'm gonna do that, get a ar15 style pistol grip (BTW were can I get one??) an ultimak rail system with a laser dot. Maybe even get a 3 rail system in the future for a nice bi-pod, vert grip, and maybe even a flashlight lol.

Posted: 9/16/2004 2:12:06 AM EDT

[#1]

The AWB is dead , think of it as if it never was.

You can put a folding stock on your MAK-90.

You must , however make sure that you have no more than 10 (specific) foreign made parts in the rifle.

Add 5 (without muzzle device) or 6 (with muzzle devce ) US made parts , and you will be 100% legal.

Posted: 9/16/2004 6:41:13 AM EDT

[#2]

So I cannot add more than 10 parts on the gun that are foreign? Lets see...I have a ak74 muzzle break and a choate stock now. I guess thats two U.S. parts? I would appreciate it if you could elaborate just a hair more.

Posted: 9/16/2004 6:48:16 AM EDT

[#3]

You cannot have more than ten parts on your rifle that are foreign (only parts caounted by the ATF, not including every screw and washer) your MAK90 came with fifteen countable parts. If you put a pistol grip stock on a MAK90 without changing at least two other parts to American made parts, you have commited a felony, noif's and or buts. At this point in time it doesn't matter if the stock is folding collapsable or disappearing, the only thing you have to worry about is having the US parts count right.

The pistol grip, buttstock and fron handgaurds are three parts that are often changed out, as well as the trigger group (another thre parts), the gas piston is another part that can be switced out with a US part easily and inexpensively. You can also cheaply and easily replace the follower and floorplate in the magazines you use in the rifel for two more parts.

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:05:55 AM EDT

[#4]

Ok here is another stupid question...sorry.

Ok, I'm assuming even though I have more than 10 foreign parts now that my gun is still legal?
If so why would adding a folding stock make it illegal?

So far I have 2 US parts. The ak74 muzzle break , and the choate stock. I will probably get rid of the back part of the stock but leave the handgaurds in place.

Here is what I'm getting from this. I cannot add any MORE foreign parts to my gun unless I first add enough U.S parts?

I guess If I decide to do this I will add the ergo pistol grip from riflestocks.com that would give me 3. Then porbably a bolt assembly. And I will have to figure out another one.

BTW thanks for the reply...if I would have asked I could have got myself in way to much trouble.

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:14:43 AM EDT

[#5]

You can have no more than ten foreign parts on you rifle combined, AK rifles have fifteen countable parts without a muzzle brake. With the US Brake and pistol grip your rifle has fourteen foreign which is four more than is allowed by law, to make your rifle compliant with 9222r you need to replace four more foreign made parts on your rifle. It doesn't matter which countable parts you swap out, but you can have no more than twn foreign parts on the rifle if you wish to have a pistol grip legally, with the experation of the AWB you are no longer prohited from addinga folding stock to your rifle so long as it is an american made rifle (that is where the US made parts count comes into play), as it is now you have an illegally configured foreign made rifle.

edited to add: There is nothing wrong with asking questions, it is better to ask a seemingly silly question that to unknowingly commit a felony, the ATF will not care if you knew the law or not, while you are not likely to be arrested for a 922r violation, you never know what may happen in the future, having the corrct parts count could someday be the difference between having your rifle returned or seized.

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:16:30 AM EDT

[#6]

Been a while since I gave this speech, so bear with me.

If it's a milled receiver MAK-90 you need to have 4 US parts, if stamped 5 US parts, from the following list for the AK (+1 on all parts counts if you are adding a muzzle device).

For an AK the simplest things to swap out are:

Fire control group (Hammer, trigger, sear) - 3 parts
Furniture (stock, pistol grip, upper/lower handguards) - 3 parts
Gas piston - 1 part

Swapping other parts out for American made (reciever, trunion, barrel, bolt, carrier, are also qualifying parts) is pretty difficult.

So, if you plan on making the rifle a folder, you currently have zero US parts count (ignore the brake).

If you want to add a non-US underfolder, I suggest you get a new FCG from RSA (3 parts), the pistol grip you like (1 part), and a set of US made handguards (1 part). You'll then be good to go woith your US made brake and a chinese/russian/romanian/etc folding stock.

This is my MAK-90 with a folder:

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:22:54 AM EDT

[#7]

Choate is US right? I have the choate handguards already.

Its funny that you can go buy this gun anywhere but when you buy it its illegal. Thats funny. My buddy has a WSAR-10 that was taken after it was involved in an accidental discharge, They did not keep it...the cops didn't even know what kind of gun it was.

Anyways I was looking on tapco and for 59.99$ they sell a combo of parts that count as 5 compliance parts. Between those and my front grips I figure I would be ok then. I'll probably go ahead and get US followers for all of my magazines. Cheap and easy insurance I guess.

BTW..which is better double or single hook triggers.

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:25:20 AM EDT

[#8]

BTW the speech helped. I understand now that all foreign guns are supposed to have 5 U.S parts. And I'm assuming for every foreign part added a U.S part must also be added correct.

Actually as I stand right now I guess I have 3 compliance parts. The choate front handguards, rear stock, and the muzzle break.

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:37:48 AM EDT

[#9]

If you replace a foreign part with another foreign part, it has not achnged the count. IF you have US made handgaurds they count as a us part, a pistol grip counts as a US part, an American made muzzle brake counts as a us part, and a US made buttstock counts as another, for a total of four parts out of the six you would need. IF you replace any of the parts I just counted off with a foreign part your US parts count will only be three, if you replace any of those parts with another US made part your US parts count will remain at four. The key to compliance is having NO MORE THAN TEN FOREIGN PARTS, with what you have now, you could add a foreign folding stock, and replace your FCG group with a Tapco G2 group and it would be legal, keeping the stock you have now would give you tehoption of only replacing two more parts with US parts to bring your gun into compliance.

Posted: 9/16/2004 7:53:14 AM EDT

[#10]

Ok I get it now. I was thinking about going ahead and ordering a RSA trigger group now. Go ahead and get the gun legal before something stupid happens and I go to prison. I just saw the telestock on RSA's side...I'm thinking hard about getting that instead. With a rsa trigger group, us pistol grip, us front handguards, us rear stock, and us muzzle break I should definetly be safe.

BTW thanks for the help. I'm glad I found out about this or I never would have known.

Posted: 9/16/2004 8:00:51 AM EDT

[#11]

Yep, that would get you legal with US part to spare, once you have those you could change any toher parts of the rifle with other foreign parts to your hearts content, just make sure you keep at least six of those parts US and and you are golden, Flash hiders abyo lugs, floding stocks whatever.you want.

What part of WV are you in?

Posted: 9/16/2004 8:08:54 AM EDT

[#12]

I'm in huntington/barboursville area.

BTW what is better single or double hook triggers? I was gonna order a RSA trigger but they are pretty expensive.

Posted: 9/16/2004 8:18:08 AM EDT

[#13]

The RSA is a very nice trigger but it does require a little tinkering to get it set just right (everybody likes thier trigger a little different), but once you get it dialed in, it is the best trigger any AK has ever had.

I have family in the Charleston area, not so close to you.

Posted: 9/16/2004 8:24:44 AM EDT

[#14]

Yea you are. Charelston is only half an hour away.

Just ordered the double hook gr2 kit from tapco along with a us gas piston and a usa foller for my 5 rounder (makes it a 10).

BTW thanks for the help everyone.

Posted: 9/16/2004 9:07:30 AM EDT

[#15]

Someone just informed me that a WSAR-10 with a thumbhole stock is legal without us parts.

If thats true I bet my mak90 was...since it is a MAK90 "sporter" and came with a thumbhole stock.

Posted: 9/16/2004 10:13:55 AM EDT

[#16]

Did you order any of the five dollar twenty round mags while you were at it, that is a great deal on them, and if you are already paying for shiping on an order might as well throw a few in.

Posted: 9/16/2004 10:31:00 AM EDT

[#17]

I didn't see that they had 20 rounders for that cheap. I probably should have ordered a couple but oh well. I just need 2 more 30 round mags to fill my tactical case up. I even thought about getting a double or triple mag clamp that poly tech sells. 6$ is the cheapest Ive seen.

Posted: 9/16/2004 11:59:32 AM EDT

[#18]

The TAPCO 4.99 mag deal is over now. They posted the price at 9.99 for the 20rd mags at their website. I bought 7 of them at the sale price. Not like I really needed them...

OK, here's my stupid question... what about the SAR1 rifles???? Can I put a Romanian folder on a SAR1 that came with a pistol grip and Romanian stock? I'm assuming that the pistol grip is a US made part. I'm not familiur with the US parts count in the postban SAR1's. Could someone please help me out with this info?
Many thanks!!!

Posted: 9/16/2004 12:11:31 PM EDT

[#19]

goddamit!!! reading all that shit made my eyes bleed!

i wonder...now that the awb is dead (for now), what's the chance we'll start going after all these other mickey mouse bullshit 5 parts, 3 parts, counting this and that, federal fucking felon by miscount laws???

Posted: 9/16/2004 12:37:49 PM EDT

[#20]

i think my brain just leaked out my ear...

Posted: 9/16/2004 12:52:25 PM EDT

[#21]

A romainian folder can be put on a SAR1 no problem, the factory butt stock is Romanian anyway.

Posted: 9/16/2004 1:49:27 PM EDT

[#22]

One minor technical point. You can have an AK with a folding stock and no US parts at all. You just can't be the one who put it together that way.

18 USC 922(r) says "It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection." There's no law against possession of an illegally assembled rifle.

Posted: 9/17/2004 6:06:44 AM EDT

[#23]

Isn't a little friendly competition shooting between freinds a "sporting purpose" ??????

My thanks for the response to my question and to SickMAK90 for letting me ask it in his thread!!!

Posted: 9/17/2004 8:32:44 AM EDT

[#24]

Come to find out my buddies WSAR-10 should already have the 5 parts it needs. But my MAK90 was imported with all chinese parts. Only reason its legal is because of the thumbhole stock.

So I ordered a trigger group and a gas piston. Now I should definetly have enough.

Now I can't decide if I want a side folder for a AR15 telestock. mmmmmm AR47

Posted: 9/17/2004 9:38:40 AM EDT

[#25]

How's this???? If you're interested, I'm your man for the conversion kit at a discounted price!

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question about legality of folding stocks...

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