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Posted: 8/4/2004 7:50:48 PM EDT
[#1]
I have a Romak3 and love it.
Drag= Better accuracy but not by much Better Quality $3500-$6000 Hard to find. Romak3= $600-$900 Easy to find. mags are $100 for 4 from SOG Built just like a Ak |
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Posted: 8/4/2004 7:54:23 PM EDT
[#2]
I think the Romak is a nice looking rifle myself. I have other projects in the pipes, so it's not on my list of "things to buy", but if I had piles of cash sitting around, I'd definitely snag one. Anyway...
The Romak III is actually a Romanian PSL rifle, which is based on the FPK receiver. In essense, it's the ol' Kalashnikov action scaled up for the 7.62x54R cartridge. Same chunky bolt carrier and piston, just a lot bigger/longer. The true Dragunov's recoil system is different from the Kalashnikov, perhaps a little more elegant. The PSL will take Drag mags, though the Romanian PSL mags are probably more available and not as crazy expensive. I've seen a variety of samples in build quality of the Romaks. Sometimes they look like they were mixed in the crate with the rest of the SARs and WASRs (i.e. really beat up) and other times they look like brand spanking new rifles. If you are able to handpick one yourself, you'd probably get the best quality; though if you're into buying Romanian guns, original factory finish may not be one of your foremost concerns. (It sure wasn't for me--number one qualification: "does gun go bang?") You can also get one kit built if that floated your boat: some companies carry parts kits and receivers for reasonable prices, though there's not a whole lot of money to be saved. I'd just get a factory built one and send it to my favorite gunsmith to get a new finish if that was a concern. Accuracy is pretty widely debated. 80% of the problems people experience with accuracy regards the ammo used in the gun. Drags and PSLs don't like the real heavy 7.62x54R ammo--it beats the action all to hell, shortening your guns life and producing craptacular results at the same time. From what I hear, the light Wolf 148 grain 7.62x54R ball produces the best results. The heavier ammo feeds best in the Mosin-Nagants; incidentally, also keep in mind that most 7.62x54R surplus is corrosize as it's old as dirt. It wouldn't surprise me if people with accuracy problems were using ancient ammo, expecting it to be like new match rounds. Someone else will have to chime in on accuracy, as I lack information (like however many MOA at 100 yards) on this. My way of evaluating accuracy is the scientific "minute of paper plate" so I can't really be specific here; I also don't have a Romak. Keep in mind, while the PSL is billed as a Romanian "sniper rifle", Soviet Bloc countries really didn't use the term the same way we Westerners do. Their idea of a sniper rifle is something a rifleman uses in a unit to make the "bad guys" (us? scary) duck while the conventionally armed infantry (AK-47/74s) advance. Covering fire at 600m; the gun won't be super accurate, but it can probably hit a silhouette at that point, and it'll make you think twice about coming out from cover. 7.62x54R is about on par with the .30-06 for distance/range/accuracy/etc. considerations. (For what it's worth, the lack of a true precision rifle in Russian forces has been remedied to bring things up to speed with Western forces, but they still use both Drags and the new bolt rifles--old habits die hard, and the Drag sure as hell ain't nothin' to sneeze at in the hands of the Spetnatz!) Gun has a standard AK scope rail on the receiver. I've seen them without a scope, using AK-style irons (yuck), as well as with 6x42 and 8x42 scopes. Russian optics are usually pretty good. I'd definitely make sure there were optics on my rifle. There's also a new set of "paratrooper" Romaks floating around now. Major difference is the short 16" barrel, everything else is the same. I personally think these are pretty stupid, a solution looking for a problem. You gain nothing except a louder muzzle blast and recoil when you chop the barrel down. Additionally, I'm not sure if they were ever issued in that form, or if this is some importer's way of making more money. You may like the 16" look, so remember that opinions are likes assholes--everyone's got one. I'm not sure about the US parts issue. Given that they are not a "hicap" rifle (no 10+ round magazines were ever made), and are imported with the thumbhole stock, I don't think they are affected by 922(r)--therefore 100% Romanian, but I'm not sure. (Though I suspect if you slapped a pistol grip on it, you'd need to meet the US parts count.) SOMEONE CORRECT THIS IF I AM WRONG. Obviously, the AWB does affect them, so no flash hiders or bayonet lugs. CHECK BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, AS I AM NOT A LEGAL EXPERT. I hear many people like to install the RSA adjustable trigger in their Romak's, so they'll take new triggers with a minimal amount of tinkering. Adding US parts never hurts! Cost is anywhere from $700 to $850, depending on where you're at. I think $700 is probably the limit, given the spotty finish--it's worth whatever you want to pay though. Gotta ask yourself just how badly you want one. Those are my thoughts on the gun. Sorry that I don't own one and can't give more specifics than that. You can search the threads here in AK Discussions and the Romanian board; there's been a few threads about the gun made. Definitely something that will attract some eyes at the range. |
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Posted: 8/4/2004 7:59:07 PM EDT
[#3]
I don't know.. but that one just cracked me up!!!!!  Seriously though... bad finish or not, I'd love to have one of these. |
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Posted: 8/4/2004 8:02:19 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 8/4/2004 11:12:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I see your not the only one who wanted one after shooting his Im looking for one too.
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Posted: 8/4/2004 11:16:30 PM EDT
[#6]
Here you go. gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21184184 gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21446884 gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21209213 gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21250072 gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=21434422 It bothers me to no end when these guys label these as Russian Dragunovs. 
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Posted: 8/4/2004 11:25:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Cheesy knockoff of a Dragunov. Not even really a Drag at all.
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Posted: 8/5/2004 1:05:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Local gunstore tried to sell a Romak as a Russian Dragunov to me. |
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Posted: 8/5/2004 1:10:48 AM EDT
[#9]
The one I like is when guys try to sell Tigr SVD's for the price of a California Tigr SVD!! |
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Posted: 8/5/2004 6:44:38 AM EDT
[#10]
They are basically good. Romy QC is much better than it was 4 years ago, and better than some of the kit builds out there. You can also get a parts kit and receiver for about $450 and have one built. Probably 2-3 moa avg like any decent main battle rifle, and exceptions abound like any internet question.
If you prefer optics to irons, need chrome bbls to survive your blasting habits, and accept the corrosive ammo clean up as a bargain for 10 cent milsurp, then get one. If you wince at paying full price for new prod ammo, hate all that area to clean inside, and are happy with a bolt gun pace, get a Mosin. I have several 1.5" groups with Wolf 54r in my M39s, which is shocking to this Barnaul fan. |
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Posted: 8/5/2004 11:01:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Thats because Wolf is just a brand and not a manufacturer.
The inaccurate wolf 7.62x39 is made by Tula and the 7.62x54r is made by LVE which also makes russia's sniper loads in the same caliber. |
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Posted: 8/11/2004 11:54:46 PM EDT
[#12]
I have one of the early imports (1999). I really like it.
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Posted: 8/12/2004 7:21:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Where can I find out about real Drags? Are they gas operated or gas-piston?
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Posted: 8/12/2004 7:26:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Piston, but not connected to the carrier like the AK.
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Posted: 8/12/2004 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Findman posted some good info with the exception of the following:
The ROMAK-3/SSG-97/FPK/PSL (all the same rifle more or less) is based on the RPK receiver not FPK. FPK is actually a designation the US mil gave the rifle incorrectly and is still referenced in Jane's books. But in Romanian it's called the PSL. The Romanian mags are not interchangeable with the Russian/Chinese mags. SVD mags will not work in a Romanian PSL, they only look similar. Some of the Romanian PSL's have proprietary scope rails that are not compatible with scopes made for an AK rail. Same goes for the rail on the SVD/Tiger/NDM-86. Most combloc optics sellers will offer mounts for both styles of rails though. Crazyquik: Drone posted a link to a site with all the info you'd want to know. Read the FAQ first. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:46:22 PM EDT
[#16]
I bought one in early '99 I believe.
I didn't inspect it close enough when I bought it and was seriously disappointed when I did. I was so excited to get something resembling the dragunov. Problems: -crappy park job with dark rust spots starting to appear. -silver solder? smeared on the barrel close to the handguard, would not 'blue' with any of the chemicals available. -bent muzzle-break -canted gas-block -front sight out of alignment -lots of machining marks everywhere. -5rd mag cheap chop job wouldn't feed dummy rounds when tested. -could move scope back on rail 1/16" when locked. Never could even be bothered to take it to the range I was so disgusted. Sold it unfired in '02 for the $800 I paid for it minus a $30 consignment charge. I still want one though and probably will buy one if and when I find one in better condition mechanically. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:52:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Romanian arms are bead blasted and black oxide blued, not parked. |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 5:28:13 PM EDT
[#18]
FWIW I have a friend who's selling like-new Romak-3 w/extra mags, RSA trigger group, Z-Recto stock (sp?), scope & 400rds of Wolf for $750 (he's saving for an NDM-86). His email address is [email protected] .
Tomac |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 6:03:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Well, after the long review of the rifle from someone who does not have one, I will chime in.
It is exactly as stated, a big AK-47. Not the same action as a real Drag. All that I have seen have good fit and finish. Mine is execllent. The best I have seen on a Romy. They do not like heavy ball, but many find the Czech silver tip or Albainian ball to work well. Have not heard many glowing reports of Wolf ammo. I find the Yugo ammo to be quite good. Mine all shows that it was packed in the cans June 22, 1986. Who knows when it was made. I don't know about the ammo being old, and old really does not have much to do with accuracy with this. Most of the ammo is sealed in cans, and is in very fine shape. The age of the ammo has nothing to do with its' quality. Commie ammo is corrosive because it is more reliable in the harsh weather they have over there. This is a common American bias/misconception. I replaced the trigger with the RSA model. I would highly recomened this. The factory trigger was pretty crappy and had about enough take-up to drive you crazy. The glass in the optics is first rate as with all commie optics. The thing I would look for is the scope. Some companies are selling it with the as-issued 4X, and others with an 8X. I prefer the 8X. I get just over 1 inch groups in slow fire. Rapid fire very quickly leads to shot stringing due to the thin barrel. The rifle can be fitted out with US made pistol grip stock sets. I do not like them though, and the stocks they come with are military issue. About the only major thing missing to make them compliant is the bayo lug. Think about it though, when is the last time a sniper or sharpshooter ever had to use a bayonet? Probably WWII. It is a fine rifle with good balance. Will a custom Rem-700 or Mauser out-shoot it? yea, they will all day long, but for a reliable semi-auto |
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Posted: 8/28/2004 7:08:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks Obershutze916!!!
Your information really helped me!  |
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Posted: 8/29/2004 6:16:06 AM EDT
[#21]
I am the one who Tomac refered to with the Romak 3 / PSL for sale. I pretty much agree with everything being said here, these are pretty good rifles for the money. I would not be selling mine but I have the opportunity to purchase a NDM-86 in 308 and the wife wont let me have both hehe. It seems to be a really well built rifle and it really likes the Wolf 148 grain ammo. The heavier ammo (i have not shot any out of this gun) I have heard is too abusive to the gun. Anyways, here are a couple of pictures of mine if anyone is interested. Gun is in like new factory condition.
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/26485drag_003.jpg http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/26485ssg97_001-med.jpg |
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Posted: 8/29/2004 6:41:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Never mind that general policy here is no more than a 'heads up' direction to the EE where business is done...
The nice wood and trigger have my attention; email sent. |
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Posted: 8/29/2004 9:25:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Sorry about kinda posting a for sale in the wrong area. I will go ahead and put up a formal ad in the equipment exchange. Thanks for the heads up.
Tom |
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