Tubruk ... Iraqi made AK ... interesting pistol grip!

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tubruk ... Iraqi made AK ... interesting pistol grip!

Posted: 8/28/2003 1:33:55 PM EDT

This is a pic of my buddy currently serving in Iraq as an instructor (hired by the US Govt) for the new Iraqi Army. He is holding a Tubruk AK47 rifle. I just realized that the pistol grip is shaped somewhat ergonomic, definitely not the typical AK pistol grip. I like the shape of this grip. He said the Tubruk is a good quality AK.

Posted: 8/28/2003 1:51:34 PM EDT

[#1]

They (Iraq) copied the Yugoslavian AK's. They are pretty comfortable,(the grips) I've got one of the Ace Ltd. copycat grips.

Posted: 8/28/2003 2:06:23 PM EDT

[#2]

Not exactly copied...Yugoslavia set up a factory for the Iraqis to build the Tabuk series of rifles, with permission.

The Chinese on the other hand, copied/stole the Kalashnikov design.

Posted: 8/28/2003 2:19:30 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Not exactly copied...Yugoslavia set up a factory for the Iraqis to build the Tabuk series of rifles, with permission.

The Chinese on the other hand, copied/stole the Kalashnikov design.

I stand corrected.

Interesting the rifle has a standard style upper hanguard as opposed to the Yugo style, the only pic I have is a 5.56 variant with the typical 3 vent Yugo upper.

Posted: 8/28/2003 2:55:53 PM EDT

[#4]

that does not look like a tabuk kalashnikov to me.

the yugo and tabuk has a 3-slot ventilated handguard. it does, however, appear, in profile, to be the yugo style plastic pistol grip.

missing, in detail, is the yugo adjustable gas system and i cannot see if the second action cover push button is on this rifle.

the chinese copied the yugo grip (sometimes it is found on the side folding 56s-3 series).

as a guess, and from looking at what is an unclear pic (on my monitor)...i would call it a chi-com variant.

Posted: 8/28/2003 3:20:07 PM EDT

[#5]

I don't know... I've seen a good few pictures in which an Iraqi AK was labeled as a Tabuk when it had the same characteristics as the one in the above pic. There's always a good chance they are all wrong, but I haven't really seen any Tabuk labeled AKs that had the Yugo three vent handguard.

Posted: 8/28/2003 3:20:54 PM EDT

[#6]

Whoa, wait a minute... look at that crazy buttstock!

Posted: 8/28/2003 3:30:39 PM EDT

[#7]

Campy, my buddy in the pic told me it is the Tabuk (he mispelled it as "Tubruk") that he is holding. He did mention about the East German's MPI and Yugo AKs issued to the new Iraqi recruits.

For more pics and stories go here

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=32&t=172661

Posted: 8/28/2003 3:58:15 PM EDT

[#8]

Why does he have an apple on his head?

Posted: 8/28/2003 4:01:20 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Why does he have an apple on his head?

Heheh .... that's his version of the "William Tell" pose .... the guy is full of humor, I guess you need it to stay in this job ...

Posted: 8/28/2003 4:11:40 PM EDT

[#10]

BTW,

it is an Iraqi nylon vest that he is wearing. I am asking him to get me one.

Posted: 8/28/2003 4:25:22 PM EDT

[#11]

I just noticed that it's a milled receiver gun. I don't know what that means in this case exactly, but I haven't heard it mentioned yet.

Posted: 8/28/2003 5:16:22 PM EDT

[#12]

if it is milled, it is not a tabuk.

btw, the chinese did not steal russian technology. the russians helped set the chinese up to build the type 53 (moisin-nagant 38/44), type 56 carbine (siminov sks-45) and the type 56 rifle (ak-47 third variant). the tokarev pitol was also part of an aide package....i'm not certain about the chinese makarov.

some sino-soviet small arms experts also are of the opinion that some, or even most, of the dragunov svd parts were sold to china by the ussr.

after the sino-soviet split, the chinese tended to thumb their noses at moscow.

Posted: 8/28/2003 5:35:23 PM EDT

[#13]

Is that the same PG that is used on the VEPR and Kreb's KTR-03?

Been trying to figure that out!

Posted: 8/28/2003 5:41:59 PM EDT

[#14]

Where about is the best source of info on the Tabuk? I'm wondering if it isn't kind of a hazy area as far as what it is.

Posted: 8/28/2003 5:50:38 PM EDT

[#15]

I'll ask him again to verify the identity of this AK.

Posted: 8/28/2003 6:13:00 PM EDT

[#16]

double post!

Posted: 8/28/2003 6:13:56 PM EDT

[#17]

I was just searching around and appearantly there are like three Tabuks. AK47 copy Tabuk, AKM/Yugo copy Tabuk, and Sniper Tabuk, which is not a good sniper system I can tell you that. Sniper rifle in 7.62x39 anyone?

So, what that means is that there are milled receiver, semi-Soviet pattern Tabuks, and appearently they are pretty common since the Iraqis aren't (haha weren't!) in the habit of replacing things much.

How about those awesome T-55s! the 55 stands for 1955! Tanks aren't like guns, a design doesn't just keep on being effective for 40+ years... nobody told the Iraqis that.

Your buddy seems like a really cool guy, kinda like the soldier we would all want to serve with.

Posted: 8/29/2003 1:28:39 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

btw, the chinese did not steal russian technology. the russians helped set the chinese up to build the type 53 (moisin-nagant 38/44), type 56 carbine (siminov sks-45) and the type 56 rifle (ak-47 third variant). the tokarev pitol was also part of an aide package....i'm not certain about the chinese makarov.

Initially yes, in 1956 of course for the Type-56. I think this changed though shortly afterwards. Kalashnikov himself blames the Chinese for the rifle showing up everywhere else around the world. I should have worded it differently.

Posted: 8/29/2003 3:10:25 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I was just searching around and appearantly there are like three Tabuks. AK47 copy Tabuk, AKM/Yugo copy Tabuk, and Sniper Tabuk, which is not a good sniper system I can tell you that. Sniper rifle in 7.62x39 anyone?

I noticed it appeared to have a milled receiver but it's hard to be sure. Some of the Yugo carbines utilize RPK receivers, from the pic though I would lean more towards milled.

The very limited info I have comes down to one book,"Kalishnikov", by John Walter. here's what it has regarding the Tabuk:

7.62mm Tabuk assault rifle
Made by the State rifle Factory

Specifications
Generally as Soviet AKM(q.v)

This Kalishnikov copy is difficult to distinguish from it's prototype,although the shapes of the butt and forend differ. Normally the selector and sight markings are in Arabic, but Tabuk assault rifles have been made for export and marked appropriately.
Apparently, some examples of the Tabuk have also been offered with 5.56x45 chambering.

(I don't know about the "sniper version", here's the info on their "RPK"/lmg. RPK receiver but shorter bbl.)

7.62mm Al Quds light machine gun
Made by the State rifle Factory

Specification
Generally as the Yugoslavian M72B1(q.v.)

This is simply a license-built Kalishnikov light machine gun,which may be distinguished from it's Yugoslav prototype largely by inferior manufacturing standards. It's sights and selectors are stamped in Arabic, although some export models have been marked differently.

That's all the info I've got. In the pics, the 5.56 Tabuk differs greatly from the Yugo 5.56 rifles. The Yugo's look more like an AK47 where the Tabuk has laminated AKM furniture. The Al Quds is a dead on clone of the M72 in the pic.

Posted: 8/29/2003 3:37:24 AM EDT

[#20]

interesting info, wes. i was unaware the iraqis built a 5.56 version.

so this tabuk is an altered version of a yugo akm. definitely different to the iraqi ak's i've seen in pics (ones that bear the iraqi crest).

the sino-soviet split had underlying ideological differences at play starting shortly after the death of stalin. however, russia did not start withdrawing military/nuclear program support until 1959, with the recall of some of the russian technical advisors. it was the summer of 1960 before the russian technical missions in china were, in the main, shut down.

at the time of the development of the ak and even the akm, the russians were not only helping the chinese with multiple small arms programs, they were still aiding the chinese rocket and nuclear programs as well.

Posted: 8/29/2003 5:20:20 AM EDT

[#21]

Wish I had a scanner! The wood kinda resembles Romanian laminate. The buttstock has a bottom mounted sling swivel the upper handguard appears to be made similar(laminate parallel to the bore) but has the distinctive 3 vent Yugo look. Black plastic Yugo grip, bolt carrier is 'in the white',45 degree gas block, AKM front sight base and get this...a slant brake! The mag somewhat resembles the E. German Weigers. Neat looking AK for sure.

Ya know, I could almost clone this thing with that 84s parts set...

Posted: 8/29/2003 6:03:00 PM EDT

[#22]

Is this that funky beast you speak of?

Campy, give some links to pics of Tabuks online if you can.

Posted: 8/29/2003 6:17:03 PM EDT

[#23]

The Tabuk, I examined was one nice rifle! It was an underfolder, and had another release button on the same side as the stock's button to release the top cover assembly. The wood however was not laminate, but a hardwood. Its former owner was an Iraqi Republican guard, but where he was going it was useless to him.

Posted: 8/30/2003 3:35:32 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
www.jed.simonides.org/smallarms/tango/tabuk_series/tabuk-ak47/tabukak47_001.jpg

Is this that funky beast you speak of?

Campy, give some links to pics of Tabuks online if you can.

Yes sir, that's the "funky beast".

Posted: 8/30/2003 11:09:43 AM EDT

[#25]

I'll give mine a look....can't remember.

Posted: 8/31/2003 2:06:33 AM EDT

[#26]

Three

Posted: 8/31/2003 4:43:19 AM EDT

[#27]

ajjer, note the 3-slot upper guard and palm swell lower guard in your pic.

i'll see if i can find some more pics, but the ones i saw were just pics posted in the news and on the websites during the fighting in gulf II.

rotdorn, i was certain that the iraqis coppied the additional side-button release for the action cover, but i was not 100% and didn't want to say for sure. thanks for confirming that you saw one.

afaik, the tabuk was a pretty close copy of the export m70 yugo. lord knows exactly how many variations the iraqis cloned though.