Hello all,

I recently obtained a very nice Type III kit from Northridge.  I've run into a wall in trying to date the darn thing.  The receiver wall is clearly marked with the numbers 52, but all of the info that I have found says that this is too early for the type III's to be produced.  In one of Chamberlain's posts, he referred to the dating being encoded into the serial number of the gun - specifically, it is related to the first two letters of the number.

My type III's serial number begins with an "A" and then a reverse "N".  Anyone know what dates that I can lock down for this bad boy?

My Type II is clearly marked 1954, so I believe your suspition about your date is correct.  I don't think it's a 52 either.  Chamberlin is in Russia for a few weeks, I guess.  There is a thread named "I never thought I'd see them all in one place" somewhere that might have some of this information on dates.

Out of all the AK's that I checked of type I,II and type III recievers (about 100 in all) I only found dates on the type III recievers that were 1954 and 1955 the remaining production was all 2 letter and 4 number that seemed to follow no particular order that I could discern because I had about 4 of each date (54 and 55) and their 2 letters did not match in the least.

Does this mean I have a Type III front end and a type II buttstock????????  If I have a '54 date on my trunion???/

Don't think any one has the date codes figured out yet.  Ezell says the first year for the type III was 1953 or 1954.  Don't recall ever hearing of one dated 1953 though.  Yours sounds very interesting, any chance of some pictures?

Hey _dis, the 'prefix letter thing' having something to do with production dates was purely speculation on my part, as their 7.62X39 ammo at one time had secret date codes as well.....In all honesty,  I really don't beleive the letter codes on AKs amount to much, other than not having to worry about
devulging production numbers, and you only have to press four number characters and two letter characters for a wide ranging serial number set.

However, I stand by my statement that ALL .30 caliber AK variants whether RPK, AKM, AK-47 have a FOUR-DIGIT year code if they have a year code at all (i.e. 1954, not 54).
If your type III has just a 54, it is most likely just a lot number code that the Isreali's used on some of the guns. I have an AKM dated 1971, that has the number '80' stamped on the receiver right below the trunion markings.

I definately don't think your type III is a '52 dated gun. The best you are going to be able to say about your gun, is that if it hasn't been refinished by the Isrealis, and it is blued, then you can safely say 1954-1955 'ish for your kit. If it is painted over park, than you can say 1957-1959 to play it safe. Those aren't definitive dates or anything, but just a guideline.
KMFDM, we have also seen Type II AK's with the dates up to 1955, so they must have really had alot of T2 receivers to use up as they were starting to produce the T3 model.  I have never seen a T3 with the year code on it, are you going by the barrel or receiver for I.D.?
If you are going by the receiver, and it is a T3 with a date code 1954 or 1955, please get me some pics!

MG34ss, your 1954 Type II is all Type II, the gas block gives it away. There are definately Type II's out there with full on Type III barrel assemblies though, just look at page 13 of the Tokoi AK book.

I am leaving tomorrow for Russia, so yes will be out of the loop for about 3 weeks!

Take care all,
-C

Chamberlain,

Thanks a million for the reply . . . I'm going to examine the receiver under a strong light and see if I can find any other dates on it.  I'm pretty sure the finish (blue) is original.

What's the story on these kits from Northridge?  How do we know they are from Isreal?

BTW, good luck in Russia Chamberlain . . . bring back lots of kick ass pics and be safe!

Rich

Chamberlin pointed out to me that real Russian AK's can't be imported, that because they were captured by Israel, they became "spoils of war" and thus were considered Israeli. One interesting thing I noticed, on all the Type II's I've seen that people claim are type II's, the front sling mount is on the gas block. I'm thinking that's a type III characteristic. My front sling mount is on the front handguard retainer.  Hmm.  But my trunion is stamped 1954, plain as day.  My RPK from Romania is marked 1968, the same way.

MG34SS,

Chamberlain, another friend and I went through the vast majority of the Northridge kits. The Type II, generally speaking, has the sling loop on the lower handguard retainer (also on the Type I). We saw Type II kits with dates ranging from 1951 to 1955. The one 1955 dated kit we saw that definitely was a Type II receiver had what we would consider a Type III barrel assembly in it with the sling loop on the gas block and the shorter front sight base.

As noted, Type III production began in late 1954 or early 1955. We felt that the Type II with the Type III barrel assembly was a case of the Soviets using up old stock of Type II receivers.

In our investigations of Soviet AK47 and AKM manufacture, we have observed that there are few if any clear cut demarcation lines. Therfore, you will see Type I barrel assemblies used in Type II rifles (the latest date we saw this was 1951), Type III barrel assemblies used in Type II rifles as described above, AK47 type bolt carries without the lightening cuts used in early AKMs, etc.

There is also a lot of mix and match in the wood furniture used on AK47 Type II and Type IIIs. It appears laminated furniture started being introduced as early as 1953 on Type II AK47s. Most of this showed up as factory replacement buttstocks with the window pane mark but some was pure factory original. In fact we saw an example of a 1954 dated Type II (as well as the 1955 dated Type II mentioned earlier) that had complete laminated wood set.

Chamberlain and I have been working on collating information and getting it on Tantal's web site.

MDI13

Welcome aboard MDI13!!!!!

Nice to have you here!  Thank you for the info.  I wish I could have been there with you guys.  I still wish there were a few type I's
out there.  They are a rare rifle.  I like the pistol grip.