we re-evaluated the satellite pics and topographical maps.

the range is completely safe IF we can keep the morons out.

i don't know, yet, what format we will use. perhaps and i.q. test to eliminate the few dweebs that showed up.

WOOOOOOOOF'inHOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I have already started makin' plans! Mrs RotDorn is coming up this time!

Ok...June 26th 2004...correct?

There are some things that could be done to make it better.

actually, there are MANY things that can be done to improve the event.

some are coming out of necessity...like downsizing the number of shooters to...oh, say about 200 or less and rotating spot on a timesharing basis.

There are more people than shooting positions.

heheh! yes, last year we ran into that for the first time. by going to a firingline that was dang near THREE TENTHS OF A MILE long...i THOUGHT i had that problem licked. i was wrong!



I didn't make it to the line in time.

you weren't alone! i harped on people to "be on time" and to "get there early"....the ones that heeded my advice did well.

Reserving a space in advance would be a good thing. Especially for those traveling a great distance.

that may be in the cards. i am thinking of offering pre-registration via the bulletfest website and offering space for the morning session or afternoon session.

still, i can see a lot of folks still not being on time.

This was the only time I could ever go to the 'fest. I won't have the time to go again for many years.

now that sucks! it was great to meet you.

As for safety, self policing is about the only way on a hot line. All the folks must watch the others around them.

after this year, i think that is unlikely to happen, although i was warned of problems by two very alert shooters. no one wanted to narc out the api/tracer shooters.

You'll never escape the idiots and unsafe acts.

agreed. hiram maxim and knob creek find that out every time they go hot.

Possibly a red tape half way up the hill with the promise of being ejected from the shoot if someone sees you shoot beyond the tape.

we have discussed that...and placing tape recorded video cameras facing the shooters so we have evidence of 'who' is doing 'what'.


Excited newbies overwhelmed with the excitement of the event loose concentration as the brass rains down on their heads, ( Great idea on the orange barrier fencing put up to stop brass flying onto the next position!

only expirience can keep that feeling away. perhaps a "rookie only" area in which close watch can be kept?


For $15 or $20 they proved to me they were the most thoughtful and courteous shooters on the line. )

i suggested the use of hay mesh netting (cheap at tractor supply) to many a shooter...only a few listened to me.

it seems most folks have to learn the hard way.

Just poorly formed ideas from me, I'm afraid. I'm not meaning to be critical of anyones behavior or actions. These are just my observations and some speculations based on my experience. As such they are subjective and may not reflect others perceptions.

one of the great things about america is that we can speak our minds.

i think 100% of the "behavior" problems can be solved IF i can find a way to keep the morons away from bulletfest. reducing the size of the line will restore some control and increase the rso's ability to keep all shooters under a close eye.

sadly, i may be forced to go to an all-machinegun format. i know that i can easily get 400 machinegunners to attend a 2-day event. i really don't want to do that...i'm still working thru some ideas that others have suggested to me.

i don't like having my hand forced...but...bulletfest has succeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams.

it's cheap. it's fun. and it's friendly.

now, we have to figure out how to tame the monster we have created.

Have a limited number of firing positions. Basically if you register you get position number 1-500, or whatever; that's how I have seen other shoots run. You pay and walk up to the line and there is some kind of marker, that's your spot.

Maybe all machinegunners is the answer. I have heard from machinegunners present elsewhere that they are glad to have avenues for shooting beyond Knob Creek where they weren't connected enough or whatever to get to fire off their guns.

'Course that makes it questionable for those of us from NY and other non machinegun states. I guess some guys would come to watch and chit chat anyway.

I think Bendover's right about the money. Make 'em pay $ 50 and you'll weed out a lot of idjits. I'd consider full time RSOs rather than volunteers.

Oh get a pile of fill or something so you can put those fires out with a front loader.

Oh and THANKS AGAIN! Campy. That was a lot of fun! Can we do it again this weekend?

A loud speaker or strobe system to alert the line to a cease fire.


doesn't work. they have speakers every 12' at knob creek and they cannot be heard over the line.

i'm thinking louder horns and more of them.

Keep the format you have including pricing. Add additional RO's.

bulletfest has always been about keeping things as inexpensive as possible. i plan on keeping it a low cost weekend.

but, like ben said, raising the price to shoot will get rid of some of the morons.


Surveillance cameras to keep people honest.

this has been under discussion for some time.


Maybe all machinegunners is the answer.

i hope not to have to go this route, but 90% of my problems come from the semi-shooters (of which 95% are safe shooters. it's just that one or two morons that i need to get rid of...but how?).

I have heard from machinegunners present elsewhere that they are glad to have avenues for shooting beyond Knob Creek where they weren't connected enough or whatever to get to fire off their guns.

knob creek is a wonderful event, but it is damn near impossible to get on the line. bulletfest has always been about equity among all shooters...thus, my reluctance to eliminate semi-auto firearms.

still, my first obligation is to provide safety to all...the neighbors, the shooters and the spectators.



You mean cut off the event to everyone who doesn't have a machinegun? I think thats a terrible idea. Many people there (including myself) only had semi-autos. All the semi-auto guys I saw were very serious about safety and had a great time. I think this would be really unfair and take away a lot from Bulletfest.


i love having the semi-auto shooters on the line, but trust me slov, they are the cause of most of the serious problems at bulletfest. are the vast majority of them safe? yes.

are a few of them out of control? yes.

don't take this the wrong way. i had to have a talk with three machingunners, too. but, there infractions were of a far less serious nature.

wanna place a bet whether it was a machinegun or a semi that lobbed that round over the hill? i would give you 1:99 odds it was a semi-auto shooter that sent it out.


Other than extending the range for more people

tom, i will, if anything, shorten up the range width and have less people on the line at any given time.

and stressing self policing,

i would like to see more self-policing of the line.

Bob,

What if.....

1. To address the problem of the line. Make the charge for a line spot somthing like $100(per 10ft wide spot), and the charge for 2nd& 3rd tier spots like $10. That way you have less people on the line, and people can link their tents together depth wise for socializing. Making sure that people are using their line time to the fullest. People would go in together bringing the cost down, but limiting the number on the line.

2. For announcements. More air horns on the line, then have everybody tune into Ch13, or whatever on the FRS for announcement on what is up. Making sure there is NO CHATTER on that channel.

there that is my .02

I just want to be there.

Ken RSA

Campy, that is really good news.  How do the Snodes feel about the event?  I know I sure liked them.

In light of the fact the offending round was a hollowpoint, it is VERY likely to have NOT been a full-auto shooter.  Nearly all, if not all, of us shoot strictly ball.

Reduced crowding on the line is a high priority.  Way it was caused some problems.

Some of the RSO were not aggressive enough.  It is not a job for the timid or one who's only aim is to please.  It is serious and is for our mutual safety.  A few hard asses were needed.

Firing positions might be sold by the foot, say $10 / foot, 3' minimum per shooter.  Pre-paid registration is the ONLY way to go.  NO REFUNDS for anyone ejected!!

Positions need to be deeper.

I don't know what hay mesh is but will look at TSC this week as it is something I WILL use in the future!

An old fashioned motor driven SIREN can be REALLY loud!!  Might help with the cease-fire.  Had I been an RSO I would have busted a few guys for running out mags after the horn.  1st offence, may not shoot next segment.  2nd offense, pack your stuff and beat it.  Probably need to throw at least ONE out at each shoot in order to get everyone's attention!

Some people used tracer intentionally and should have been ejected.  Some of us shot a little by accident.  I shoot all kinds of junk ammo.  On occasion a tracer has been cleaned and marking is gone.  Those things happen.  I shot several at BF but stopped using that can when they showed up.  (9mm in fact).

A PA system to save Campy's voice, make safety announcements etc. would be very helpful.

The scheduled sessions / ceasefires is an excellent idea.  Worked well at TFTC shoot.  What happened when they raised the price TOO high is worth noting also.

Snodes need to have food and drink near the line.  With their pricing and quality, it would be VERY good for them - and us!

Overall, I think Campy puts on a pretty darn good event!  I know I appreciate it.

the round was recovered in perfect condition. it was a 7.62x39 hollow point boat tail.

at the safety meeting i address bump firing, who could do it and who should not.

like my prohibition of tracer, api, apit ammo...it was ignored.

i have receieved reports of two younger shooters that were bump firing with little control.

i, and the rso's CANOOT BE EVERYWHERE AT ONCE. NOR, CAN WE BE EXPECTED TO SEE EVERYTHING AT ONCE (in real time).

it is up to THOSE ON THE LINE to be self-policing. i made that clear at the pre-shoot meeting.

i received plenty of reports via email and phone of shooters doing stupid shit...yet only ONE GUY said that he took it upon himself to correct the behavior.

it is as much up to YOU folks on the line to stop stupidy as it is happening as it is to me or the rso's.

YOU are closest to it.

only 25% or the line is shooting at any given time. subtract those engaged in preparing to shoot or helping others out and that leaves 25-50% of the shooters that COULD act as safety insurance. yet, they refuse to act in our...and i do mean OUR best interest.

no one turned in the guys shooting tracer/api...but one fellow is sending me video of a guy he filmed shooting api AFTER MY 3RD WARNING!!!



i, and a bunch of other folks work very hard to give the shooters a safe venue that offers plenty of fun and a chance to rub elbows with the big boys.

yet, it seems that every year everyone refuses to do their part to insure that the tradition of shooting sports in america continues.

it isn't the rso's or the snodes or me that is the common sense that will keep events like bulletfest going....it's YOU FOLKS. and the sooner people realize that, the better off we all are going to be.

you may recall that at the safety meeting (if you had the sense to plan ahead and get there on toime for it!!!) that i said that ANYONE AND EVERYONE had the authority to shut the line down if a problem arose.

well...there were plenty of problems reported after the fact, yet no one (other than the rso's or myself) tried to shut the line down...and darn few folks tried to correct the problems they witnessed.

pardon my rant, but it is very frustrating to try so hard to do the right thing when it seems that no one else gives a shit enough to try and keep the egg off of OUR faces.

How do the Snodes feel about the event?

they enjoyed having us and are all for trying it again.

In light of the fact the offending round was a hollowpoint, it is VERY likely to have NOT been a full-auto shooter. Nearly all, if not all, of us shoot strictly ball.

agreed. the round, in all likelyhood, came from a semi-auto ak or sks in the hands of a moron.

Reduced crowding on the line is a high priority. Way it was caused some problems.

the line was .3 mile wide. overcrowding was more due to guys piling way too much shit on the line than anything else.

Some of the RSO were not aggressive enough. It is not a job for the timid or one who's only aim is to please. It is serious and is for our mutual safety. A few hard asses were needed.

well, instead of shooting all day, volunteer for a few hours. i asked, repeatedly, for help during the day. i received many blank stares and folks looking at their shoes in return.

Firing positions might be sold by the foot, say $10 / foot, 3' minimum per shooter. Pre-paid registration is the ONLY way to go. NO REFUNDS for anyone ejected!!

i'll find a way to keep it cheap.

Positions need to be deeper.

not really. people need to drag less junk to the line.

I don't know what hay mesh is but will look at TSC this week as it is something I WILL use in the future!

that was another suggestion of mine that was, in the main, ignored. btw, i watched you get pelted by hot brass from your own gun (you handed it to someone and they dumped a string right on you). hay mesh won't solve that...common sense will.

An old fashioned motor driven SIREN can be REALLY loud!! Might help with the cease-fire.

believe it or not, i looked for one all thru this spring...couldn't find one. iu believe it is an excellent idea.

Had I been an RSO I would have busted a few guys for running out mags after the horn.

well, step right up. those hats and vests were a "one size fits all" deal.

1st offence, may not shoot next segment. 2nd offense, pack your stuff and beat it. Probably need to throw at least ONE out at each shoot in order to get everyone's attention!

mickey, that line was friggin' huge! now, you know how long it takes to shut down a short little line like knob creek...with 30 rso's screaming and that (worthless) p.a. system blaring.

all in all, i was NOT p.o.'d at the time it took to shut down that number of shooters.

i WAS pissed that shooters stood there with their thumb up their asses while THEY watched stoopid shit go down.

TRUST ME, every INCIDENT that was brought to my attention or that I saw got addressed right then and there.

Some people used tracer intentionally and should have been ejected.

no shit...so 'who' were they? i have one on film that is headed my way. if i see who it is...they are history.

the greek and i walked the line checking ammo...TWICE. guess what? it all disappeared. wth didn't YOU or the other folks that saw tracers snag the guys that were shooting it?

Some of us shot a little by accident. I shoot all kinds of junk ammo. On occasion a tracer has been cleaned and marking is gone. Those things happen. I shot several at BF but stopped using that can when they showed up. (9mm in fact).

big mikey found 3 at the end of a belt, also (.308). shit happens...no biggee.

trust me, mickey, the fire are only an annoyance when the weather has been as wet as what it has. BUT, in dry weather it is a DANGEROUS hazard to shoot tracer.api/apit/spotter!! hell, k.c. burned down over 350 acres of prime timber one year!!!!!

and, it is up to YOU to KNOW what ammo you have.

that excuse of "i shoot lots of junk ammo" don't get it when the fire marshall walks into the shoot and 10-20 departments are out in the field trying to get things under control.

again, trust me...the bill for buying good, quality ammo is way less than the bill we would get for starting a big fire.

i guess what i'm saying is that it is YOUR  (and mine) responsibility to KNOW what ammo you have. save your cheap shit for the rock quarry.know what you have in those cans at bulletfest. snode's ain't some ugly rock quarry...it's hay fields.

and beyond it is woods. all of it is flammable.

A PA system to save Campy's voice, make safety announcements etc. would be very helpful.

next year the line will be much smaller.

The scheduled sessions / ceasefires is an excellent idea. Worked well at TFTC shoot. What happened when they raised the price TOO high is worth noting also.

i'll keep it cheap, no worries there. we have MORE THAN ENOUGH ceasefires as is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the morons shooting tracer, laying out flares, blowing up guns, and sending rounds out of the park cut WAY TOO MUCH time out of the day as is...don'tcha think?!?!

scheduled cease fires? i came to shoot. not wait for folks to clear the erm or clear the entrance or watch fires get put out or ride with the sheriff!!!

we don't NEED ceasefires. we need people to shoot safely for hour after hour! i gave you plenty of friggin' targets...what more do you need?

Snodes need to have food and drink near the line. With their pricing and quality, it would be VERY good for them - and us!

that was the plan...it got waylayed because FOLKS WERE LATE!!!!!!  WAY LATE. the crew had to stay and work the gate rather than do all the other shit that needed done.

besides, you were advised to bring your cooler to the line.


look. this was the first year at this venue and despite our best efforts...there will STILL be problems NEXT YEAR.

don't blame me, the snodes, the rso's, the sheriff, the neighbors or those ponies in the field for the stupidity that was displayed BY THE SHOOTERS.

it is up to ALL OF US, everyone on that line, to maintain safety.

"i" didn't blow up that thumper/m79.
"i" didn't have my mg-42 t&e fall apart and scatter short rounds.
"i" din't fall over and spray the dirt 2' out.
"i" didn't put road flares in the dryer.
"i" didn't bump fire like a 12 year old.
"i" didn't rent my gun and watch as some little girl elevated 30° thru her burst.
"i" didn't put one out of the ball park.

what "i" did do was invite you to come up and enjoy the day with me and try to keep things real.

i enjoyed the day, myself...but realized long ago that the cooperation level among shooters is practically nil.

A REAL simple solution to the "Bullet over the berm" mess ?

NO BUMPFIRING OR SHOOTING FROM THE HIP.

PERIOD !

If you are seen shooting un-aimed fire or from the hip, you will be removed from the event.

exactly what the doctor ordered, art. it's a shame that a very few "good" bumpfirers (like waldo, for example. he can control his fire with no problems) will have to give up bumping for the day because of a few stupid folks, but safety is paramount.

additionally, i saw folks reanting/loaning machineguns to folks that had no business with that particular type of firearm.

i mean, a 95 lb. little girl with a full-auto 7.62 x 39 ak?????

i told one fellow to take the machinegun away from a girl because her bursts were going high. it was plain to see her hold was too loose and her stance didn't provide nearly enough bracing against the recoil.



i keep telling folks NOT to get caught up in the excitement of bulletfest, but common sense and self-control seem to disappear into the shroud of smoke when the line goes hot.

last night, we started review of aerial photo surveys for rotating the line 90° around the hill. after picking up a 55 gallon drum full of brass, we started to rake the grass for final brass policing.