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Posted: 5/25/2009 9:33:03 PM EDT
[#1]
In my opinion, buy the corrosive stuff and clean your gun with windex before you take CLP to it. You won't have to worry about any corrosion if you clean your AK well enough. It is great ammo and I have never had any problems with it.
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Posted: 5/25/2009 10:17:18 PM EDT
[#2]
The corrosive ammo isn't a big deal, just clean your gun normally, maybe put some windex, or hot water, or whatever you think will stop corrosion down the barrel, and you'll be fine. I just use regular bore cleaning stuff, thousands of rounds later, my bore is pristine.
Also, don't buy a 5.45 AK, that's less ammo for me. |
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Posted: 5/26/2009 7:47:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Windex will not help dissolve the Potassium Chlorate salt deposits. I don't know where that myth came from. Clean as usual, maybe use some Ballistol cleaner (thinned with water) in the process.
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Posted: 5/26/2009 4:23:31 PM EDT
[#4]
I would buy several cases of silver bear for plinking and quite a few tins of milsurp for SHTF. Silver bear is good stuff. Don't worry about the corrosive ammo. Buy a .22 boresnake, a small brush and clean your barrel and chamber after each use. Less than 5 minutes to clean it, but a mess if you shoot and let it sit up.
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Posted: 5/26/2009 4:29:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Russian mil-surp is great, shoot, clean with 1 part Ballistol and 5 parts boiling water (down barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, and gas tube) then clean as normal. Good shit.
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Posted: 5/26/2009 10:28:19 PM EDT
[#6]
What exactly is Ballistol? I've heard about it here a few times but have never seen it for sale anywhere. Where can I get it?
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Posted: 5/27/2009 10:50:33 AM EDT
[#7]
I thought the ammonia neutralized the corrosive salts. Where are the chemists when you need them? It don't matter, I only did that once, before that I used boiling water.
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Posted: 5/27/2009 5:33:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I thought the ammonia neutralized the corrosive salts. Where are the chemists when you need them? It don't matter, I only did that once, before that I used boiling water. Nah, its a myth  Im no chemist, but windex has ammonia-D. Ammonia-D and Ammonia do not neutralize KCl (corrosive salts). It actually helps lift the KCl off of the metal so the water can rinse it way. Nothing out there, that does not harm your rifle, will neutralize the KCl completely. Ballistol is really good at inhibiting the corrosive factors of KCL, lifting it away and gives a nice protective layer.
I use corrosionX and clean the rifle normally. With a good layer of corrosionX, i have been able to shoot my rifle and not clean it for a week w/o rust.... Funny thing is that SALT crystals will form lol inside the rifle. I highly recommend most people to use Ballistol though
BTW, ballistol will not neutralize KCl; only some black powder residue (thats not KCl).... |
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Posted: 5/27/2009 5:53:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Where are the chemists when you need them? Okay - I AM the chemist. Salts like KCl (and NaCl - table salt) are water soluble. It's the water that dissolves the deposited salts - run enough water through the gun and it'll all be washed away. When I'm done at the range, I dump some Ballistol & water down the barrel just for 'insurance' and run a bore snake through it before I head home. After I get home, I use hot water, and a little soap to help things move along quicker. And then I clean and lube normally. As far as which to buy, you can buy a good bit more of the surplus for the same money. And it comes in those nice spam cans so it will keep nearly forever! |
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Posted: 5/27/2009 11:25:49 PM EDT
[#10]
my friend just uses hot water for his tantal. dumps it down the action and barrel, wipes it/runs a dry patch through the barrel, repeat, then clean as normal.
im pretty sure windex has a bit of water in it to desolve the salts so it should work, just more expensive and not as well as pure water. |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 6:35:39 AM EDT
[#11]
Someone here turned me on to this product.....http://gunzilla.us/..I bought the 1.9 oz pump spray and the 16 oz bottle to refill. I haven't used it yet, but my plan each outing is to shoot my corrosive stuff first, followed by 30 rounds of non-corrosive Barnaul, then spray the barrel and chamber with Gunzilla and take it home and clean it normally.
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Posted: 5/28/2009 7:01:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Someone here turned me on to this product.....http://gunzilla.us/..I bought the 1.9 oz pump spray and the 16 oz bottle to refill. I haven't used it yet, but my plan each outing is to shoot my corrosive stuff first, followed by 30 rounds of non-corrosive Barnaul, then spray the barrel and chamber with Gunzilla and take it home and clean it normally. Please post a review on how effective it is against 5.45 corrosive ammo. I couldnt find any real science/facts about the stuff. I like how they state that it was "developed for the military". Funny how none of our armed forces are using it  It may be a good/great gun cleaner, but i would use WATER alone over this stuff for 5.45 surplus.
Again, there is a difference b/t black powder residue and 5.45 corrosive residue (KCl). |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 12:55:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone here turned me on to this product.....http://gunzilla.us/..I bought the 1.9 oz pump spray and the 16 oz bottle to refill. I haven't used it yet, but my plan each outing is to shoot my corrosive stuff first, followed by 30 rounds of non-corrosive Barnaul, then spray the barrel and chamber with Gunzilla and take it home and clean it normally. Please post a review on how effective it is against 5.45 corrosive ammo. I couldnt find any real science/facts about the stuff. I like how they state that it was "developed for the military". Funny how none of our armed forces are using it It may be a good/great gun cleaner, but i would use WATER alone over this stuff for 5.45 surplus.
Again, there is a difference b/t black powder residue and 5.45 corrosive residue (KCl). I have to agree with you that besides what they say on the website, the stuff is pretty much unproven on corrosive ammo. I guess my plan would be to still go home and run boiling water through the weapon just to be on the safe side, then clean it normally. |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 1:13:12 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: What exactly is Ballistol? I've heard about it here a few times but have never seen it for sale anywhere. Where can I get it? Ballistol The advantage of Ballistol is that it mixed with water, so you get the benefit of water to remove the salts, but when the water evaporates it leaves the oil behind to protect. Personally, I've never had any issues just cleaning the rifle as I normally would. [ETA] Ballistol seems to be a mix of liquid paraffin (mineral) oil, potassium oleate, and benzyl alcohol. |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 2:20:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone here turned me on to this product.....http://gunzilla.us/..I bought the 1.9 oz pump spray and the 16 oz bottle to refill. I haven't used it yet, but my plan each outing is to shoot my corrosive stuff first, followed by 30 rounds of non-corrosive Barnaul, then spray the barrel and chamber with Gunzilla and take it home and clean it normally. Please post a review on how effective it is against 5.45 corrosive ammo. I couldnt find any real science/facts about the stuff. I like how they state that it was "developed for the military". Funny how none of our armed forces are using it It may be a good/great gun cleaner, but i would use WATER alone over this stuff for 5.45 surplus.
Again, there is a difference b/t black powder residue and 5.45 corrosive residue (KCl). I have to agree with you that besides what they say on the website, the stuff is pretty much unproven on corrosive ammo. I guess my plan would be to still go home and run boiling water through the weapon just to be on the safe side, then clean it normally. I would and i bet a few others would really appreciate your field testing of the Gunzilla though
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Posted: 5/28/2009 4:58:15 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone here turned me on to this product.....http://gunzilla.us/..I bought the 1.9 oz pump spray and the 16 oz bottle to refill. I haven't used it yet, but my plan each outing is to shoot my corrosive stuff first, followed by 30 rounds of non-corrosive Barnaul, then spray the barrel and chamber with Gunzilla and take it home and clean it normally. Please post a review on how effective it is against 5.45 corrosive ammo. I couldnt find any real science/facts about the stuff. I like how they state that it was "developed for the military". Funny how none of our armed forces are using it It may be a good/great gun cleaner, but i would use WATER alone over this stuff for 5.45 surplus.
Again, there is a difference b/t black powder residue and 5.45 corrosive residue (KCl). I have to agree with you that besides what they say on the website, the stuff is pretty much unproven on corrosive ammo. I guess my plan would be to still go home and run boiling water through the weapon just to be on the safe side, then clean it normally. I would and i bet a few others would really appreciate your field testing of the Gunzilla though I remember someone on this forum removing the bullet and powder from a corrosive 5.45 round, chambering it and firing it close range at a steel plate. He then took a pic of said steel plate after several days and we got to see the corrosion occur. I'm not quite ready to volunteer to do this, but wouldn't it be informative to perform this test on TWO steel plates, then leave one untouched and the other treated with Gunzilla and see what happens? |
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Posted: 5/28/2009 5:39:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Simple little tests are best, imo. My tantal's muzzle brake rust like crazy if it is not cleaned properly and i eventually see corrosion near the gas tube. I treated my rifle w/ hoppes oil, shot a mag thru it, cleaned it w/ Hoppes #9 and oiled it. Conditions were 100% humidity at the range. Rifle displayed alot of corrosion and rust w/in 3 days. Same test, but did not use oil/Hoppes #9 to clean. Rifle displayed alot of corrosion/rust w/in 24hours. Same test, but treated w/ corrosionX before firing, but i did not clean afterwards (did clean bore). 10 days later, it displayed minor rust on the muzzle only. I treat my rifles w/ corrosionX and clean afterwards w/ it = No signs of corrosion YET. Im very happy with my method
I have a Tantal and an AKS-74u that use 5.45 surplus Try something simple out like that. Just be careful and dont let your rifle rust up
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Posted: 5/28/2009 5:49:44 PM EDT
[#18]
I wish people would stop saying windex.
One ammonia is not good for aluminum. Two water in the windex is what is washing away the corrosive salts, not the NH3 |
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Posted: 5/29/2009 6:52:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Someone here turned me on to this product.....http://gunzilla.us/..I bought the 1.9 oz pump spray and the 16 oz bottle to refill. I haven't used it yet, but my plan each outing is to shoot my corrosive stuff first, followed by 30 rounds of non-corrosive Barnaul, then spray the barrel and chamber with Gunzilla and take it home and clean it normally. Please post a review on how effective it is against 5.45 corrosive ammo. I couldnt find any real science/facts about the stuff. I like how they state that it was "developed for the military". Funny how none of our armed forces are using it It may be a good/great gun cleaner, but i would use WATER alone over this stuff for 5.45 surplus.
Again, there is a difference b/t black powder residue and 5.45 corrosive residue (KCl). I have to agree with you that besides what they say on the website, the stuff is pretty much unproven on corrosive ammo. I guess my plan would be to still go home and run boiling water through the weapon just to be on the safe side, then clean it normally. I would and i bet a few others would really appreciate your field testing of the Gunzilla though I remember someone on this forum removing the bullet and powder from a corrosive 5.45 round, chambering it and firing it close range at a steel plate. He then took a pic of said steel plate after several days and we got to see the corrosion occur. I'm not quite ready to volunteer to do this, but wouldn't it be informative to perform this test on TWO steel plates, then leave one untouched and the other treated with Gunzilla and see what happens? I remember that test. I wonder how the Gunzilla would work. I just boil a pot of water when I get home, rinse everything in the sink and then I do a normal cleaning with CLP and I have yet to see any rust. |
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Posted: 6/2/2009 4:48:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
I wish people would stop saying windex. One ammonia is not good for aluminum. Two water in the windex is what is washing away the corrosive salts, not the NH3 What the ammonia (and it is very little) in Windex does do is increase the solubility of the water. This allows the fluid to disolve and hold more of the salt than water alone. In addition, the ammonia breaks the surface tension of the water to allow the fluid to penetrate into all the surfaces where the corrosive residue can lie. Reducing the surface tension is especially good for the narrow diameter of a 5.45 barrel. Heating the water also has the same affect. I do not worry about the ammonia in Windex because the molarity is so low. FWIW- I use Windex at the range (where they discourage boiling pots of water on the bench) wipe everything dry and then clean with warm water+Balistol at home. After that I do a regular cleaning with CLP before it goes back in the safe. |
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Posted: 6/2/2009 12:57:37 PM EDT
[#21]
the magazine "small arms review" did a piece on corrosive ammo, they had some interesting results. apparantly hoppes#9 did the trick. but so did plain water. they got surface rust with the water but thats because they didn't do anything else with it, ie. cleaning, and they didn't use hot water. i use super hot water and get ZERO rust even if i don't clean afterwards and let it sit. the really hot water dissapates so fast you wouldn't believe it. here are the results i pulled from a post by user jimcola on theakforum.net
nothing done - corroded Hoppes #9 - not corroded wd-40 - not corroded windex - not corroded, but light surface rust from water hot water - not corroded, but light surface rust from water Break Free - corroded non-corrosive primer then corrosive primer - corroded |
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Posted: 6/2/2009 2:13:50 PM EDT
[#22]
In a Tantal does the corrosive salt get up the gas tube and onto the piston too?
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Posted: 6/2/2009 6:09:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Yes, in the gas tube and piston and every where else the combustion gas has come into contact with the rifle. I use Ballistol.
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:19:51 AM EDT
[#24]
To the folks that are saying they use "hot water," how hot? Boiling?
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Posted: 6/8/2009 4:46:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Hoppes No. 9 is formulated for cleaning corrosive military ammunition.
Hoppe's No. 9 MSDS .pdf Kerosene (General cleaning agent/solvent) Ethyl alcohol (General cleaning agent/solvent) Xylene (Solvent, dissolves led) Amyl Acetate (Source of the famous smell) Ammonium Carbonate (Solvent, neutralizes corrosive salts and dissolves copper) Citronella (Perfumery agent and bug repellent) In use since 1903. |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 5:57:22 AM EDT
[#26]
The guy in this article did some extensive testing with corrosive ammo if anybody's interested.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/alittlesalt/index.asp |
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Posted: 6/8/2009 8:13:16 AM EDT
[#27]
I decided to e-mail the guy (Ted Jeo) who wrote this article about the effects of different solvents used in the test. I asked him about Gunzilla. This was his reply:
Gunzilla came out after I did the tests. I do not have any intentions of repeating this test with more solvents at this time. The best way to see if it will remove the corrosive salts is simply to ask if it has water as a solvent in it. Those solvents that had water dissolved the salts. Petroleum only solvents did not do as good a job as those solvents don't dissolve salts. The Gunzilla website says it's not petroleum based OR water based. It's "made from agriculturally based chemicals". |
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Posted: 6/14/2009 11:14:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
I remember someone on this forum removing the bullet and powder from a corrosive 5.45 round, chambering it and firing it close range at a steel plate. He then took a pic of said steel plate after several days and we got to see the corrosion occur Thanks for remembering! If I run across this Ballistol, I may make another test. 
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Posted: 6/16/2009 6:44:44 PM EDT
[#29]
By and large, I think using boiling water causes more problems than it solves. Just clean with some simple green or whatever then oil it up and put it away. No worries.
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Posted: 6/17/2009 5:59:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
To the folks that are saying they use "hot water," how hot? Boiling? "Boiling" water would be ideal but is hard (and dangerous) to handle while trying to support a barreld action as well. Personally, I use distilled water (because of my crappy well water) and heat it till it is almost too hot to touch then mix it with 20% Balistol. I then pour and swab a quart of this solution down the bore, down the gas block, trunion and through the gas tube (mine has a plastic handguard but I would be more careful with wood). I then take an old toothbrush and hit the bolt carrier. I then wipe the bolt and bolt face with the solution as well as the exposed surfaces inside and out of the receiver that show any residue + one dry patch throught the bore, gastube and trunion. I let it air dry then wipe everything with a dry towel. I then clean with CLP like normal. It sounds like a lot of extra work but really only adds maybe 15 minutes and it forces me to clean the same day I shoot so a clean and ready rifle always goes back into the safe before I go to sleep. BTW I do the water+balistol cleaning outdoors or in the garage. |
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Posted: 6/17/2009 6:48:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
To the folks that are saying they use "hot water," how hot? Boiling? I use Ballistol in water when I'm done at the range. When I get home, I just spray my upper down with Fantastic, and then run straight hot water from the tap through it. Then clean and lube normally. I don't see that using water any hotter than hot tap water would be measurably better at dissolving away the salts. |
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